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  1. #201
    karel47's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?


    ORIGINAL: lposter

    Hi Karel

    Go here': http://www.rctank.de/product_info.ph...oducts_id=1835

    ready to run, more metal than you can shake a stick at, 2.4 GHz, gun recoil and IR:479 euros

    Less than a Tamiya and ready to run.

    Idont care about wecohe...Inever mentioned them once. YOu did and now you keep bringing them up like Isaid they were good or something. CG Models arent very nice either.

    BUt lets faceit....the Germans arent exactly known for sloppy engineering and I dont see to many Germans in tears at their low quality tanks at any of their big rc expos.

    p
    partly treu you have a tamiya sherman for 450€ and a rtiger I , KT and pershing for 499€ à 550€ that's what i want to say, your taigen would never at the same height as the tamiya only with a benedini inside it will come over the 600 euro then, then you can buy the tam panther or jagdpanther for it with no isseu's at all all in !!!

    i never said i find wecohe good, find it way to expensive , but look at sevoblast's jagdtiger it a paerl of modelling many parts are wecohe there , it top just like in cars ferrari and porsche are the dreamcars ... you can't tamiya comparing with wecohe it's out of the leagea another level of craftmenship !!!


  2. #202
    karel47's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?


    ORIGINAL: lposter

    Sorry karel...saw your edit a bit late:

    metal tiger lower hull 69 euros: http://www.rctank.de/product_info.ph...roducts_id=555

    HL tiger with IR, metal tracks, airbrushed: 209 euros. http://www.rctank.de/product_info.ph...oducts_id=1628

    what more do you want?And Im not even trying to find the best prices......

    p
    no worry's iposter, am also not always right its just a point of vieuw through our personal expierence, i understand yours to


  3. #203

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    No. It hasnt. Whats been demonstrated is that Imay get a Tamiya Sherman or Tiger for somewhere under a 1000 dollars. Just those two. If Im lucky to find someone with them actually in stock. And assuming I want Ieither of them.
    Go to welsh dragon models and you can get the Panther and PIV under $1000. As of my post today both where in stock.
    600 euro for a fuly tricked out HL/Taigen whatever you want to call it. Judginb by what Iread of the clark and its driving characteristics orany sound...they are very subjective. If you are willing to pay a steep premium for sound or characteristics you like, go ahead.

    I'm just trying to compare like for like here. You cant compare the 2.4ghz in the taigen/torro tanks to a tamiya/elmod/slu or even a clark.

    Now ask youself.....when HLreleased their last new model....did it cost 40% more than its other tanks?And if not.....given that the manufacturing processes between HLand Tamiya are similar......why does the Tamiya?

    The price of the latest HL offerings has increase by more than 40% compared to the older ones. Probably for the same reasons as the larger tamiya prices. IE the start up and development costs have been paid off so they can afford lower prices and stil keep the same margins.

    Seriously?Driving around on well manicured surface is beyond the design limits of an rc tank?What are its design limits?Driving around on puppies and rabbits?That point doesnt wash at all. Aback yard looks rougher than the average IRbattle ground. And surely a plastic toy tank is designed to be driven around in such an environment.Plus Iam constatly assured that Tamiya out of the box is much more robust than HL and deosnt break down so much at IRbattles. Whi9ch contradicts your point precisiely. You cannot have it everyway!!!!

    Ok first off have you seen how people drive tanks at danville? Its nothing to do with the terrain its more the rapidacceleration/deceleration, going full speed forward then hammering it into reverse driving that stretches a tank during competitive battling. Most people dont drive tanks in a scale way when IR battling (a reason why Im not a massive fan of the Danville style battle). Your right that driving in a manner anywhere near scale a HL will run just fine at danville.
    A tamiya will run far better out of the box as long as you keep it out of the box! When people add metal onto these tanks then you start getting issues as things like the TUs cant cope with the increased torque frombiggermotors andgear-downspeople use to counter the weight.
    I had first hand experience of this. Bought a tamiya king tiger, totally stock, I ran it on rough mud with no mechanical issues (aside from getting gummed up with mud). When I added metal tracks and 3:1 gear downs and ran it on the same terrain I broke my tus almost straight away. Several TUs later I learnt to use tamiya tus in stock form. If you want lower ratios go out an buy impacts or those nice German ones with theplanetary.
    From what I can see things like bearings and gearbox braces are used to make something thats very reliable,absolutely bullet proof.
    I hope that address your points in a polite and hopefullyrelativelythought out way!
    End of the day freaky is right its all personal choice. I love my HL tanks as much as my tamiyas!

    Tamiya:leopard 2a6, king tiger, Porsche king tiger, panther g, jagdpanther. Hooben: elefant, t-55. HL panther f, Jagdpanther

  4. #204

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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?



    When any of you folks begin to pull in the prices of the products from manufacturers such as WECOHE, Hermann, Muller and the like that really isn't a
    fair comparison. You are speaking about very low volume manufacturers, even when driven by CNC and other technologies the setup time, costs and either
    the cnc machining center costs ( to purchase or just rent ) are huge, really huge. And if they're just consuming cnc parts custom made for them those aren't
    cheap either. Tamiya's machine costs must be amortized over many product lines over many years so the contributing percentage to overall cost must be smaller.

    The smaller companies don't have staff, marketing and distribution costs like Tamiya and to a lesser degree Mato/ Wusan and the Chinese companies.
    Products from WECOHE, Hermann, Muller are by their nature more time consuming to produce.

    By that measure to me anyway the products of the smaller companies are more worth the price than those of the large corporate giants.

    At the end of the day any manufacturer is going to price their product for what they feel gives them an acceptable rate of return on the investment put
    into its production. This is a luxury hobby folks ( and sorry I don't see rc tank battling as a 'sport', hobby extension yes, sport, no ) and we don't have to buy them.
    We can build from scratch, certainly all the components are there already, tracks, wheels, sprockets and information/documentation ad nauseum. Today's rc tank
    hobbyist is spoiled rotten by my measure. All the talk about what's worth what is all nonsense to me. If you want it and can afford it, it's worth it; if you have to go hungry
    or damage your family to get it clearly it is not worth it. There's a lot of things I can't afford but want, things I can't justify even if I'm able to buy them. If you don't like the price, move on. Learn one thing- manufacturers are not here to make you happy, they're here for your money; pay up or get out of the way.
    When I was actively making and trying to sell my own castings I got no end of grief from folks niggling over the price a $20 raw casting; they never appreciated
    the work it took to research, design and make the patterns, prepare and stage the molds and pour the parts. I gave up because it just wasn't worth it. My close friends and family always saw it as an art form and as art one is pretty much free to charge whatever they want.

    No flames, no epithets please. Just calling it as I see it.

    Jerry
    - http://tanks.linite.com/

    ~ Then give three cheers, and one cheer more,
    For the hardy Captain of the Pinafore! ~

  5. #205
    karel47's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    am totaly agree tanque


    ORIGINAL: Tanque



    When any of you folks begin to pull in the prices of the products from manufacturers such as WECOHE, Hermann, Muller and the like that really isn't a
    fair comparison. You are speaking about very low volume manufacturers, even when driven by CNC and other technologies the setup time, costs and either
    the cnc machining center costs ( to purchase or just rent ) are huge, really huge. And if they're just consuming cnc parts custom made for them those aren't
    cheap either. Tamiya's machine costs must be amortized over many product lines over many years so the contributing percentage to overall cost must be smaller.

    The smaller companies don't have staff, marketing and distribution costs like Tamiya and to a lesser degree Mato/ Wusan and the Chinese companies.
    Products from WECOHE, Hermann, Muller are by their nature more time consuming to produce.

    By that measure to me anyway the products of the smaller companies are more worth the price than those of the large corporate giants.

    At the end of the day any manufacturer is going to price their product for what they feel gives them an acceptable rate of return on the investment put
    into its production. This is a luxury hobby folks ( and sorry I don't see rc tank battling as a 'sport', hobby extension yes, sport, no ) and we don't have to buy them.
    We can build from scratch, certainly all the components are there already, tracks, wheels, sprockets and information/documentation ad nauseum. Today's rc tank
    hobbyist is spoiled rotten by my measure. All the talk about what's worth what is all nonsense to me. If you want it and can afford it, it's worth it; if you have to go hungry
    or damage your family to get it clearly it is not worth it. There's a lot of things I can't afford but want, things I can't justify even if I'm able to buy them. If you don't like the price, move on. Learn one thing- manufacturers are not here to make you happy, they're here for your money; pay up or get out of the way.
    When I was actively making and trying to sell my own castings I got no end of grief from folks niggling over the price a $20 raw casting; they never appreciated
    the work it took to research, design and make the patterns, prepare and stage the molds and pour the parts. I gave up because it just wasn't worth it. My close friends and family always saw it as an art form and as art one is pretty much free to charge whatever they want.

    No flames, no epithets please. Just calling it as I see it.

    Jerry

  6. #206
    Panther F's Avatar
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    RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost?

    That's the truth Jerry. The whole truth.














    ~ Jeff
    "Best Job I've Ever Had"

  7. #207

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    Hi guys,

    Did a search on the forum and came across this thread.

    I've just shelled out for a tamiya leo 2A6 and it was £615 from Axels-modelbau delivered.

    I think this is excellent value and is something only a few years ago I could dream about buying as it was out of my league price wise.
    But this thread go me thinking, I'm old enough to remember the mid seventies when the original King Tiger and Leo A4 kits came out and they were £500 plus then. So, my point is that the tamiya kits hav'nt in reality, increased in price if at all in, 35 plus years and you get more functions for your money.

    I have several HL which I've been tinkering with over the years and have enjoyed them, but I don't get a lot of time to modify tanks these days so I'm looking forward to the tamiya build experience.

    Just my two pence.

    cheers

    CaptB

  8. #208

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    I like the Tamiya Kits because I'd rather BUILD than Mod. That said they are bit pricey, IMO. However, there AREN'T that many 1/16 scale RC Tank KIT Manufacturers out there other than two kits currently offered by Hooben and the one kit by Taigen. I've got the Tamy Tiger I and the Leopard 2 still in the Box. I managed to get the Leopard 2 for under $800 a couple of years ago, thanks to the AAF in Danville.
    You can Beat High Retail $1,000+ Prices if you Shop around, but You probably WON'T Find a NEW Tamiya Tank kit for under $700 anywhere.
    Just My 2 Cents.....,
    Last edited by mordock999; 08-15-2014 at 11:31 AM. Reason: correction

  9. #209

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    can we just let this subject rest

  10. #210

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    Can you take a cheap tank and make it perform like a Tamiya, for less money?

    Yes you can.

    Aside from the obvious cost of purchasing all the necessary upgrade parts, you should cost your own time spent in the project. If you feel your time is worth the savings, go for it.

    Isn't it nice to actually have a choice for a change?
    Chung-Leong

    Current tanks:
    Tamiya Tiger I, Pershing, Panther G, Leopard 2A6 and KV-1

    Club affiliations:
    The Singapore (SG) Tankies Facebook Page:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/sgtankies/
    North East Armored Division:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/queenspanzergroup/

    AAF Tank Museum member #131329-25

  11. #211

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    In any human endeavour we need a standard as a target, TAMIYA are that standard, certainly they have been overtaken in some area's but without them I doubt that HENG LONG, TAIGEN, TORRO et al would have invested in R/C Tanks or even noticed there was a market, so the answer is yes at any price. shaun

  12. #212
    karel47's Avatar
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    that's my opinion also tamiya is worth every penny ... still rocks ... i have 21 of them , no regrets at all

    what i would say compare pices , i bought my cheapest tamiya king tiger FO for 300 euro thats 380 dollar on ebay some years ago, don't haste ... be patient guy's

  13. #213
    karel47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleong View Post
    Can you take a cheap tank and make it perform like a Tamiya, for less money?

    Yes you can.

    Aside from the obvious cost of purchasing all the necessary upgrade parts, you should cost your own time spent in the project. If you feel your time is worth the savings, go for it.

    Isn't it nice to actually have a choice for a change?
    no you can't cleong , you never get the same quality with aftermarket parts ... it will cost you more !!!

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by karel47 View Post
    no you can't cleong , you never get the same quality with aftermarket parts ... it will cost you more !!!
    To my mind (in the uk at least) a second hand tamiya is the best value you can get. I've picked up a tiger for £175 with batteries charger and 6ch 40mhz radio and a Pershing with radio for £200. There's no way I could make a Henglong to this standard anywhere near this price. There is a lot to be said for upgrading as you go, especially if it's your first tank!
    Tamiya:leopard 2a6, king tiger, Porsche king tiger, panther g, jagdpanther. Hooben: elefant, t-55. HL panther f, Jagdpanther

  15. #215
    ausf's Avatar
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    Oh no, this again.

    Build what you love, love what you build.
    What, me worry?

  16. #216
    karel47's Avatar
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    yes my king tiger was brand new , no occasion, it was from a guy

  17. #217
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    They set a standard that others judge themselves against. For this reason the are always going to be relevant. Cost hardly comes into any more.

  18. #218

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    should have let the thread die captain

  19. #219

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    The latest generation of Heng Longs and the more upscale non Tamiya models aren't
    exactly $50 anymore. I see prices approaching 4-650 usd(for the all metal ones) and the stock electronics
    are often not as effective as Tamiya's.

    So Tamiya models are very much still relevant.

    jerry
    - http://tanks.linite.com/

    ~ Then give three cheers, and one cheer more,
    For the hardy Captain of the Pinafore! ~

  20. #220
    For Godsakes really?
    "There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
    Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov


    1 x HL KT, WIP 1 x HL Early Panther G, WIP 1x HL Late Panther A, 1 x HL/PP Jadgpanzer L70 (V), 1 x WSN T-34/85, WIP 1xWSN/Trumpeter T34/76, 1 x HL KV-1, 1 x 6th Hussars 2nd Armoured Brigade Sherman 105/ Jumbo hybrid, WIP HL PZ. IV L70 paper panzer. All Clark, all IR, all servo recoil.


  21. #221
    Love To build's Avatar
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    First was my Tamiya Sherman, Very few addons just the gun elevation lever and the plate under the transmissions for stiffness. Well worth the $500.HL Sherman. just installed a clark board, mods for ir items, Made it a USMC Iwo Jima Tank by building wading stacks. getting extra tracks to armour the turret and body, Wood planks on the sides, and putting sandbags that cost $370. Hooben Elefant A definite builders kit. With the accessories $600. I see the new mato and taigen all metal ones are coming out (definitely want the M36) The Tamiya was easier to set up and build .So the relevance of Tamiya is pretty good getting someone into the hobby that wants to grow learn the mechanics and wiring. Which carries over to the other manufacturers vehicles to upgrade and repair. Some one new in this hobby should get a Tamiya to start probably a tiger 1.especially if they really want to get involved on a bigger scale then just trying it out.
    M4A3, M41, Elefant, Marine M4A3, Building M4A1E8

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgsselkirk View Post
    For Godsakes really?
    Ummmm what?
    - http://tanks.linite.com/

    ~ Then give three cheers, and one cheer more,
    For the hardy Captain of the Pinafore! ~

  23. #223
    herrmill's Avatar
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    Well said Jerry! Toys will always be toys - sport?? That's still causing me to ROFMLAMO! - & they'll always be big boys with money enough to appreciate what they want.

  24. #224
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    You can’t expect to pay Ford money and get Audi quality it’s that simple

    Buy what you want but don’t fool yourself that a Heng Long is Tamiya quality
    UKTC European Coordinator
    RAG Militδrmodellbau

  25. #225
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    Make it stop make it stop make it stop!
    What, me worry?


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