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  1. #26
    Panther F's Avatar
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: TheBennyB


    ORIGINAL: Panther F

    You cannot 'standardize' things once you ask for a cheaper alternative to have a system ''Tamiya Compatible''.

    See what happens when you make a wish... it has consequences.



    I liked it better when only Tamiya tanks were allowed.














    ~ Jeff
    You got that straight, or atleast Tammy battle systems.


    And that too.














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    STILL building 1/16 scale RC tanks.

  2. #27
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    ONLY Tamiya systems lol can't we have thread without these remarks.
    The beginning standard for IR emitters is a minimum distance and the width of the pattern. A guy that has a 5 meter wide pattern at 20 meters is in my mind taking advantage of everyone else.
    That is why everyone has or should have a tube, set up 2 targets at whatever distance you want. Fire at the main target and have the secondary 2 meters or whatever is decided to one side. If both targets hit then have them modify their tube or change emitters until they qualify.

    Next question-how is the pattern width decided? By poll ? by local club?
    Having an emitter shoot too far can be an advantage but I personally think the pattern width at X distance is the first key question. I personally use 10mm to 11mm depth tubes on my own tanks to restrict the pattern as much as possible. It just seems to be more fun and more gentlemanly to do this.







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  3. #28
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    Hmmmm

    Mountain out of a molehill. Any battle system can have the emitters changed.

    Remember the good old days when tanks never had battle or sound systems

  4. #29
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    You can tweak even a stock Tamiya unit for range. I think the pattern width is what we are more concerned with. Use targets to test at a certain range. That can be changed by moving the emitter further back in the tube. 9mm rule should be a starting point.

    Maybe if there is a big enough demand they will make a narrow beam lensed emitter which will solve the problem(but it would have to be a pretty big demand to keep the costs down).

    I think we as a community can come up with a test and set standards that everyone can agree to and adjust our battle systems to comply.
    M4A3, M41, Elefant, Marine M4A3, Building M4A1E8

  5. #30
    Panther F's Avatar
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    ORIGINAL: Love To build


    Maybe if there is a big enough demand they will make a narrow beam lensed emitter which will solve the problem(but it would have to be a pretty big demand to keep the costs down).

    Or gee, have emitters handed out at the day of the battle? I think that was the direction folks wanted to go with instead of buying a Taimya system?

    Adapt, overcome... improvise is what I say. It's just a game so play it like a game.


    Oh... and don't bunch up either!














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    STILL building 1/16 scale RC tanks.

  6. #31
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: Love To build

    You can tweak even a stock Tamiya unit for range. I think the pattern width is what we are more concerned with. Use targets to test at a certain range. That can be changed by moving the emitter further back in the tube. 9mm rule should be a starting point.
    OP had stated that testing would be too time consuming!



    ORIGINAL: tomhugill


    ORIGINAL: Oracus

    Have your club setup a max range rule, then test during inspection. Place target in place, set tank at max range mark, fire, hit its ok, move back 1ft, fire, hit not allowed. Just a idea
    Would be far too time consuming to police.

    Trex450 Pro ~ EXI 450 ~ HBFP ~ CX3 ~ McpX ~ Hubsan X4 ~ RC Eye One ~
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  7. #32
    Love To build's Avatar
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    The problem is that the driving electronics behind the emitter comes into play too. So just handing out a emitter will not solve the problem.
    M4A3, M41, Elefant, Marine M4A3, Building M4A1E8

  8. #33

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    Micro lenses for LED's.

    We use bigger versions for lightsabers (i use to build lightsabers as a hobby, complete internal, etc).

    I'm sure someone out there makes micro lenses for LED's.

  9. #34
    Panther F's Avatar
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    ORIGINAL: Love To build

    The problem is that the driving electronics behind the emitter comes into play too. So just handing out a emitter will not solve the problem.

    I was just kidding about the handing out emitters but this is where we are when we allow others to "infiltrate" the ranks all to be 'compatible' AND as a cost cutting factor.

    I think once there is a problem discovered, the tank should go to the pits for repairs or be benched until the problem is resolved. No 'testing' crap... that is not what is supposed to happen on battle day but if we know in advance what systems to watch out for, then maybe a quick look at it might be in order.

    This is something that should be addressed to the host or those in charge at the battlefield.














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    STILL building 1/16 scale RC tanks.

  10. #35
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    I agree Jeff. I was just saying that it doesn't matter what system you are running or emitter, you can have different results on the same setup due to tolerance issues on electronic components ( sometimes as much as +/- 10% on resistors alone) as well as someone "tweaking" their setup. If a problem arises or is suspected it should be addressed by the host or event judges. I think we need a way to easily test the suspected problem
    M4A3, M41, Elefant, Marine M4A3, Building M4A1E8

  11. #36

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    The host club can have a few spec Tamiya emitters with clip-on barrel mounts on hand to swap onto any tank that seems to be shooting abnormally. A simple voltage output check of the IR socket will show if the LED is being over-driven, and duration as well for that matter.

    Likewise, battle unit apples can be easily swapped if inconsistency is encountered.

    In ths way, no one would bother with tweaked IR emitters or apples.

  12. #37

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    After reading this thread, and as a newb to tanks, I would just like to say that as a hobby, I think we need to concentrate on making rules or requirements that will work for our battle units, but not prevent or discourage someone from participating because their battle unit is not quite right. I have 3 HL tanks equipped with DBC's and I enjoy them. I would love to make the trip out to Danville or other club some weekend, but I don't think I would enjoy participating if I thought that my tanks may have issues that would offend others because it wasn't a TBU. The fun goes out the door when things get too technical, then the only ones participating are the die hards. This is a problem in other competitive RC hobbies as well (I could give a good example of this, but I won't ).

    I would say there needs to be a standard such as Tamiya to follow, but all battle units need to be set up to those standards and requirements the best they can. Look at RC racing, you can only do so much to make sure every car is equal to make the race fair, but we all know they aren't.

    In today's economy, trying to tell someone that they have to have a Tamiya tank and battle unit in order to participate would only decrease their lack of interest in RC tanks. Tamiya tanks are awesome, but they are not for everyone due to price. It is all about having fun, and you can have fun with a cheap HL or an expensive Tamiya tank.

    Not sure about other battle units out there, but I think Dan has an awesome idea on his website for the DBC where he experimented with using a potentiometer to regulate the LED. Maybe all battle units should have IR outputs that could be tuned for different battle settings. I am using DBC's in my tanks, and the IR range is easily changed via a resistor. As suggested earlier, when you show up at a meet, you could setup a couple of targets, and you place your tank as far back as designated, and quickly tune your IR leds for that day. I don't know all the rules yet and am no expert at tanks, but in real life, different tanks would have different firing abilities, and that would be hard to deal with in our hobby.

  13. #38

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: aceisback

    After reading this thread, and as a newb to tanks, I would just like to say that as a hobby, I think we need to concentrate on making rules or requirements that will work for our battle units, but not prevent or discourage someone from participating because their battle unit is not quite right. I have 3 HL tanks equipped with DBC's and I enjoy them. I would love to make the trip out to Danville or other club some weekend, but I don't think I would enjoy participating if I thought that my tanks may have issues that would offend others because it wasn't a TBU. The fun goes out the door when things get too technical, then the only ones participating are the die hards. This is a problem in other competitive RC hobbies as well (I could give a good example of this, but I won't ).

    I would say there needs to be a standard such as Tamiya to follow, but all battle units need to be set up to those standards and requirements the best they can. Look at RC racing, you can only do so much to make sure every car is equal to make the race fair, but we all know they aren't.

    In today's economy, trying to tell someone that they have to have a Tamiya tank and battle unit in order to participate would only decrease their lack of interest in RC tanks. Tamiya tanks are awesome, but they are not for everyone due to price. It is all about having fun, and you can have fun with a cheap HL or an expensive Tamiya tank.

    Not sure about other battle units out there, but I think Dan has an awesome idea on his website for the DBC where he experimented with using a potentiometer to regulate the LED. Maybe all battle units should have IR outputs that could be tuned for different battle settings. I am using DBC's in my tanks, and the IR range is easily changed via a resistor. As suggested earlier, when you show up at a meet, you could setup a couple of targets, and you place your tank as far back as designated, and quickly tune your IR leds for that day. I don't know all the rules yet and am no expert at tanks, but in real life, different tanks would have different firing abilities, and that would be hard to deal with in our hobby.
    Ace, none of this thread is meant to deter, If you can shoot and take hits, all is good! I really just wanted to put on everyone's radar that all kinds of different IR bulbls are now gonna be on the
    battlefield and we may want to keep check of this down the road.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  14. #39
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    How many people are taking shots or getting hits >30m anyway? In our club at least, there are enough obstacles, bushes, buildings and hedgerows that keep most combat at 5-10 meters.

    We follow the 9mm rule for emitters recessed into metal or plastic tubes. At 10 feet, I can pin point one of 2 tanks sitting 2 feet from each other, and not hit both. We've never had any "wide angle" shot issues, unless there are 3 tanks in a straight line

    We run Tamiya, SLU, DBC, and now a few Clarks... everyone gets along nicely The long grass eliminates most fan shots.. which as far as we're concerned, is the real issue at hand here... :P
    CAN-AM Rc Tank Club - Tiger I * Panzer IV * Panzer III * Chi Nu Kai **** KV-2 * Pershing * T-34/85 * M4A1 Sherman

    Clark board wizard. I can fix it!

  15. #40
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    Going back to associating these to the real thing... no one drives them like the real thing, no on battles them like the real thing but almost as if the are a video game.

    The difference in LED's is almost like the real thing as crews can make a difference and guns CAN be better then ones similar gun is.


    Bottom line is it's 'run what you brung' and deal with it, as long as the host and all the tankers agree.


    Just don't make yourself such an easy target.














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    STILL building 1/16 scale RC tanks.

  16. #41
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: Panther F


    Just don't make yourself such an easy target.

    ~ Jeff

    Which in most cases means use a Tamiya apple.

  17. #42

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: TheBennyB

    Ace, none of this thread is meant to deter, If you can shoot and take hits, all is good!Β* I really just wanted to put on everyone's radar that all kinds of different IR bulbls are now gonna be on the
    battlefield andΒ* we may want to keep check of this down the road.
    You brought up a good and very interesting topic. I understand and agree with what you are saying.

    With this all still new to me, this is the stuff I wonder about. After seeing a couple of the posts, I didn't want this thread to shift to a you have to have this or that. It needs to stay on track so that new people understand that it is possible for a seasoned RC Tanker to get a technical edge on them regardless of what system they have, and that could take the fun out of it if they don't understand why they are getting hit but they can't hit the tank that shot them when you know you should have. A lot of people won't even know where to get the different IR LED's should they need a replacement or better LED, and I think that is where this and other forums can help.

    I have a thread on here about my DBC's because when I first installed them, I could not hit anything more than I think 20-25 feet away. Thanks to Dan and some other members, I learned more about the IR Led issues and corrected the issue. If I had gone to a club to battle, I would have been screwed and not even known that my shots were not even going very far, but now I have good shooting distance, so I would say this topic is good one to help educate new tankers.

    Don't know about here in the States, but it does seem like this hobby is starting to grow in other parts of the world, so we need to keep things simple, yet help educate the new people so they will have fun and enjoy the hobby.



  18. #43

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    I have been to Danville a few times and I know they check for the depth the IR emitter is set in its tube. I believe it to be 9mm, I'm sure TheBennyB knows what the depth is since he has battled there numerous times. The range should not be a factor, unless like aceisback, you have a range deficiency. The pattern width should be easy to check. Set a target at say 20' and one out to the side say 1'. If you take straight aim at one and hit both you have a problem. That would work wouldn't it? If everyone comes in with their emitter at 9mm or deeper this shouldn't be a problem anyway right? If you fire and do not hit either you know you have a range problem or eyesight issue. Dennis

  19. #44

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    Does anyone know of the advantages and disadvantages of using 3mm vs. 5mm. I experimented with both, and had know range issues from one to the other. I am currently using 3mm in aluminum tube with the 9mm depth on my main battle tanks.

    I did not really have a chance to try the 5mm in a tube yet though. Seems like both work well.

  20. #45

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    A spred of 1 foot @ 20 feet will be a double hit. This shouldn't happen since the courtesty distance to other vehicles is 3 feet ( 1 meter). At 20 feet I can't double hit if the targets are 3 feet apart. I'm using a tamiya emitter. I f i aim in the center of those two I can't assume a hit on one or the other but one will get hit.
    You also now need to consider if the Apple mirror is normal or IFA.
    Troy

  21. #46
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    Wow, I finally read this thread in it's entirety.
    Here's my 2 cents:
    Come on down West to Arizona where the day's are hot and the nights are beautiful. We're a relaxed bunch of people who like to play tanks, have a barbecue, drink a cold beer (afterwards) and tell stories. When your tank is broken or a tread is thrown, you'll likely end up with a Sherman provided to you by the team lead (and how many does he have now???).
    If you're shooting your team mates along side of you, they aren't shy about it! If your shooting multiple enemies in one shot, they aren't shy about it.
    But - it's all in good fun. And that's the way we like it!
    tsull
    PS: I once raced vintage cars on the west coast for a number of years. If you want to talk about an expensive hobby where everyone is completely uptight about rules and regulations - that's the sport!
    King Tiger, KV-1, Tiger 1, Pershing

  22. #47

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    Nigel's been doing some testing and with his DBC can hit an individual tank at about 144 feet! Not too shabby!
    Tamiya:leopard 2a6, king tiger, Porsche king tiger, panther g, jagdpanther. Hooben: elefant, t-55. HL panther f, Jagdpanther

  23. #48
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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: tomhugill

    Nigel's been doing some testing and with his DBC can hit an individual tank at about 144 feet! Not too shabby!

    Gotta video of that? Otherwise, it never happened.














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    STILL building 1/16 scale RC tanks.

  24. #49

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?

    it happened i was there at the test i measured the range it was 144 feet

  25. #50

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    RE: Inspecting IR emitters?


    ORIGINAL: tsull

    Wow, I finally read this thread in it's entirety.
    Here's my 2 cents:
    Come on down West to Arizona where the day's are hot and the nights are beautiful. We're a relaxed bunch of people who like to play tanks, have a barbecue, drink a cold beer (afterwards) and tell stories. When your tank is broken or a tread is thrown, you'll likely end up with a Sherman provided to you by the team lead (and how many does he have now???).
    If you're shooting your team mates along side of you, they aren't shy about it! If your shooting multiple enemies in one shot, they aren't shy about it.
    But - it's all in good fun. And that's the way we like it!
    tsull
    PS: I once raced vintage cars on the west coast for a number of years. If you want to talk about an expensive hobby where everyone is completely uptight about rules and regulations - that's the sport!
    Sounds like a decent place to battle.


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