TheBennyB

So we kinda hijacked a fellow members thread on this so I wanted to start a dedicated thread. With all the new battlesystems and upgraded tanks now showing up at our battlefields, what are
the concerns with IR bulbs being consistant with each other? In other words do any of us have worries that with all the aftermarket (non-tamiya) IR bulbs being installed there might be some
tilting of the battle?

Oracus

Have your club setup a max range rule, then test during inspection. Place target in place, set tank at max range mark, fire, hit its ok, move back 1ft, fire, hit not allowed. Just a idea

tomhugill

The tamiya bulb is one of the better ones. In our testing we found the Clark with the higher power bulb was on par with a Tamiya in terms of range. The exception to this is the DBC which has recorded hits at 140 feet

tomhugill

Would be far too time consuming to police. Most systems are about the same range at around 90ft. The issue is people with different ir bulbs coming in and having a much lower max range. In this case it's upto them to attain competitive ranges on their tanks.

Pah co chu puk

I would think that max range is not the main issue or problem. I think "spread" is the issue.

To hit a tank at long range seems OK to me, but hitting 4 tanks at once seems unfair and unreal. A narrow, long range beam is my goal, not a short range "shotgun" blast.

MAUS45

Yep, I agree. This is close to the "Fan Shot" that a lot of us do not care for. Very unrealistic if we are trying for scale combat on the battle field.

Pah co chu puk

Panzerpaul of the FRAG club is actively working on this problem. He has tried to design an emitter limiter that constricts the IR beam to make it more narrow so you really have to "aim" and not just shoot in the general direction of the target. It's kind of like an old "pinhole camera" setup. I don't think he has worked out all the problems yet, but battles have been fought in Denver using his design.

Oracus

I thought that was the reason for the emitter tube?

Pah co chu puk

I thought that was the reason for the emitter tube?

Yes. But at long range it still makes a wide beam. The ideal would be an IR laser, then it would only hit what it was aimed at and a hit on the fender would not count as a hit at all. We would need IR recivers on the tank body then and we could have some tanks with no reciver at the front to act like thicker armor. Just a pie in the sky idea... but fun to think about.

ksoc

Another reason to periodically check your IR emitter. One club member's tank always tested well on the workbench, but did poorly in battles. He finally found out he had a defective emitter. It worked fine to about 10 feet, after that it could not register a hit. That put a severe crimp in its battling ability.

ausf

For battling with my sons, I set the emitters in the barrels (Tamiya Tiger I and M4, HL Stug) and carefully tuned them to only register hits that were aimed at the tanks width @ 30 feet. They were tuned by pulling them back into the barrel until it met the parameter and 30 feet was chosen because it was the longest indoor flat surface I had to work with.

It makes battles much more interesting for us, especially outdoors with varied terrain but it would be a distinct disadvantage when battling in a club setting.

Darryl Usher

I for one do not like people running around so they can stand behind there tank to aim it.
So a reasonable spread is OK, the Tamiya tube is are standard. Sit in a chair, and battle.
Darryl

Ronan87

If people want a narrower 'beam' simply buy a new IR LED that has a narrower spread.

TheBennyB

I'm not thinking about adjusting the IR beam, more on how do we get everyone's the same. These days at Danvlle, if you'd line up all the tanks you'd probably come across 5-10 different
IR bulb manufacturers installed with each possibly having different characteristics in the standard tamiya dimesion's tube, both good and bad. Also am wondering if all these battle systems send
the same voltage to the IR bulb? I'm not trying to say any one bulb is right or wrong, just something we'll have to think about at big meets such as the May Danville event.

YHR

IR LEDs are cheap, and don't care what system they are used with. Want more range buy a different LED.

Typically 30 m will get you the required distance and suitable life out of an LED. Guys who are getting 45 M out of a DBC are burning out their LED as they have by passed the limiting resistor on the DBC. It will only be a matter of time, but a replacement LED being less then $1.50, some guys will elect to install a new one every battle day.

Panther F

All but three tanks of mine have the radio shack bulbs installed and there have been NO ISSUES.

One has the IMPACT System and the other two are Tamiya. I then just purchased the base and work with two apples, and then the one lone IMPACT system.


Still, no issues as I just tested them.














~ Jeff

TheBennyB

Jeff,
By "tested" what do you mean? That all your IR beams have the same width and range or that they are just functioning? I remember years ago when RCACN was running the
exhausting inspections, radio shack IR bulbs were strickly forbidden because they had a wider beam spread without range loss. Again this was something like 6 or 7 years ago so I could
be mistaken on the bulb manufacturer

Panther F

The same way they are 'tested' before any battle... that they can give and take a hit. They are all installed correctly to the rules so I see no issues with mine.


You do know that if you have a suspicion about the bulb, just replace it. It's not rocket science nor should there be a huge effort to "test" them.














~ Jeff

TheBennyB

Yea, all this thread was meant to do is start the discussion on IR bulbs. If everyone will be happy with people using IR bulbs that can reach out to 45m while others can only hit at 10m and some
that can have beam spread of 5m while others will only spread to 2m, than all is fine. Its the same with painted apples, hard to police and enforce it all, but want to keep an even field.

Panther F

Then you isolate the problem and fix it.


'Nuff said.














~ Jeff

no12skyline

I am probably the exception that believes the IR equipment should be sacrosanct and standardised. If you were batting a Major League ballgame, you can't simply go and get a bigger baseball bat to improve your chances of hitting the ball, could you? So why should anyone be improving their IR beam range or spread, or reducing the sensitivity of their IR receiver?

TheBennyB

That's what the discussion of this thread was meant to introduce....if we'll need to standardize a single IR bulb anytime in the future or if people are going to be happy with different
ranges and spreads during a battle. Like I said before, for the most part this won't effect local club battles, only major meets such as Danville where people are coming from all over the
world.

ausf

If you go to Digikey and sort through the number of IR emitters, you can get an idea of the dizzying array of possibilities.

If a club was really interested in addressing it, it could easily be standardized. The club could buy a supply of emitters and build a number of standard emitter tubes that could be clipped on any barrel. The individual tank owners could install an agreed upon standard socket to their board (whether Tamiya, DBC, etc) and the wire could be run through any hatch. The club hands out the emitters before the battle and collects them after.

I'm not suggesting it would be acceptible to everyone or practical since it would encourage casual attendance, but if it there was a core group that were serious about leveling the playing field, it could be done without a long drawn out testing protocol at the start of every meet.

Panther F

You cannot 'standardize' things once you ask for a cheaper alternative to have a system "Tamiya Compatible".

See what happens when you make a wish... it has consequences.



I liked it better when only Tamiya tanks were allowed.














~ Jeff

TheBennyB

You got that straight, or atleast Tammy battle systems.