philipat

I'm looking at my next project and it will be a Panther. Some time ago I bought the metal pan and several other parts, though not quite the full compliment of parts, for the lower hull for the Tamiya Panther. The plan at the time (and now) is to build a TamLong Panther using the lower hull (I like my airsoft tanks). Of course, all of this was before Asiatam released their lower metal hull for the HL Panther. Now that I have the parts and have sunk the money, I think I'll just move forward on it. And, I'm not sure that I could recover my money by selling the parts, even though I got them at a pretty good deal.

So, I'm looking at the possible upgrades to the Tamiya lower hull and I'd like to know if anyone has any experiences that they'd be willing to share with some of these specific upgrades. Here's what I'm looking at and my questions.

- HennTec idler adjuster (http://www.henntec.de/produkte/kettenspannsysteme/ Art. Nr 032): Does anyone have any experience with this? Is it really better than the stock Tamiya idler adjuster? Why?

- Tamiya gear boxes: are the gears metal or plastic? Will a Speed400 work?

- Sprocket hubs: Schumo Kits makes resin hubs with a magnet included (http://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/k...ets::5782.html). It's a great idea, but couldn't I do the same thing with the stock plastic hub that comes in the Tamiya kit? Does it not have space for a magnet?

- Hex-head screws: Schumo Kits sells a bundle of hex-head screws that replace many of the Philip's head screws in the Tamiya. Aside from using a different driving tool, what's the advantage? (http://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/k...her::3073.html)


- Tracks: Will Impact's metal tracks (http://mitosal.com/16T012.htm) work with the Tamiya sprockets?

- Metal sprocket wheel guide: Is Impact the only company that makes this (http://mitosal.com/16T011.htm)? And, does it improve the function of the tank at all?

- Impact transmission: What has been your experience with these? If the drop down gear is left on and 480 motors are used, does it need a 8-tooth, 11-tooth or 12-tooth pinion gear to obtain scale speeds over a flat sidewalk?

Thanks for the help.

MAUS45

For me the idler adjustment system that Tamiya uses in the Tiger I and the Panther/JagdPanther are great. They are adjustable from the outside of the tank and work much better than the old drum system that is used on the Tiger II. Henntec has a good design but I have not used one yet. I plan on adding it to my Tamiya Tiger II though.


The Tamiya gear boxes I have in my Panther have plastic and metal gears. That said, I did get a set of Impact gear boxes to replace them when they wear out or fail. I am not sure if they will wear out as with good maintenance my Tamiya Tiger I gear boxes, which have plastic and metal gears, have lasted over eight years. Now granted I do not drive it like a sports care and not that often, but I think keeping them clean and lubed has kept them running.


Yes, you could use the Tamiya Sprocket Hub covers with a magnet. Wish I had. May remove them and add the magnet as I used white glue to hold them on but would allow them to be removed easily.


For me looks are the only difference between the Hex head and Philips type screws.


If you have the newer Tamiya Sprockets they should work. If not you will need to use a spacer or get the Impact Sprockets to go with the tracks.
I have one of the early Tamyia Panther kits and I replaed the Tamiya Sprockets as Tamiya had not made the recall to get the spacer and I wanted my Panther running.


I have the Metal Sprocket wheel Guide and it will add strength to the front of the metal lower hull.


I have not played with the Impact gear boxes yet.

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

Tamiya sprockets work fine with Impact tracks, don't buy the impact sprockets...50/50 chance they will be miscast and halves misalign (mine were, as well as a couple of other individuals I know of).

Jeff489

My Feedback: (12)

The Henn Tec idler adjusters work if you've got a problem with track alignment in your idlers. I've got several. They are under engineered though and the tensioner slips (due to a single grub screw). As a result, the track tension loosens up as you drive the tank...which was why one purchases them in the first place... They require additional modifications to work good. Not good for a product that costs so much in the first place. I use them on Tiger 1s. The stock Panther has a good idler system, I leave them alone.

Tamiya gear boxes are some of the best and certainly the most repairable. They've got plastic gears on the top end, metal on the bottom end. "Good" became great once Tamiya started selling their gearbox rebuild kits for $27 again. Everything is replaceable.

Hub covers with magnets are nice, but IMHO a solution searching for a problem. I use Elmer's rubber cement on my drive sprocket hub covers. They never come off, and I really don't take them off that much anyways.

Hex head screws look kind of cool. IMHO, not much benefit other than that.

Impact tracks work with Tamiya sprockets (the late versions at least). The early Tamiya sprockets were too narrow, and had problems with even the original Tamiya tracks. That's old news, they're all better now though.

As to metal sprocket wheel guides. I've done them...and not done them. They look good, but are another solution in search of a problem. My best Panthers and Jagdpanthers are the lightest ones. The heavier they got with add-on metal bits, it seemed less reliable.

As to the scale speed question, I gear my tanks for cross country speed (about 1/3 of max speed). I don't have any firsthand experience on this.

cleong

The short answer is that if you have a complete Tamiya Panther rolling hull you don't need any upgrades.

Long answers:
- I have no experience with Henntec's products but have no complaints about the stock idler setup. There is probably a bit more play than I would like but its does not seem to have affected performance.

- Its a combination of plastic and various types of metal, including brass, cast metal and chromed metal. I like to think that each gear material has been selected to suit the amount of stress loads it undergoes.

- I use a dab of rubber cement to keep it on. So far I have not lost my hub covers yet.

- My used Tiger I came with hex head screws instead of regular Philips screws. The only advantage I could see is that a hex head bolt not packing up with dirt like a Philips or Allen head screw would. If you run in the dirt, this might be a useful feature.

- My Impact tracks wouldn't work with Tamiya sprockets. It needed Impact sprockets, which would only fit Impact's own output shafts. I know other people have had it different, but this is my own personal experience. Things may have changed between batches, I could probably have gotten one of the early production version.

- It adds detail, and probably improves the fit of the top hull into the bottom. I have no experience with this part.

- Its much noisier than a Tamiya transmission, fairly rough in construction and fits are less precise than Tamiya's. That being said, it looks like it could chew on rocks and spit out pebbles.

wsn123

"Impact transmission: What has been your experience with these? If the drop down gear is left on and 480 motors are used, does it need a 8-tooth, 11-tooth or 12-tooth pinion gear to obtain scale speeds over a flat sidewalk?"

Its also depend what electronics are You using

In the begining I used Elmod ECO electronics with Impact transmisions with DDG , but for me they are too noisy and not so smooth as Tamiya gearboxes. So later I decide to use Tamiya gearabox with Schumo ZUH 19 gear reduction kit with Jamara 480 HS BB motors (22700 rpm) - now its moving perfectly.

philipat

Great input, guys! Thanks.

Shark27

philipat,

Here is my two cents,

HennTec idler adjusters should be fine they have two versions, check them out on ETO's website. http://www.etoarmour.com/products.php?ViewCategory=20 they are at the bottom of the page. One of the systems is adjusted just like on the real tank through the rear hull, you remove the adjuster armored covers that are held on by magnets. I haven't installed these but, IMO if Bob at ETO is carrying them, they probably work great.

Tamiya gear boxes are fine with the speed 400s but you might want the gear downs, as they will be too fast otherwise. I have tested that setup and run it in my King Tiger, I run Impact gearboxes in my Panther.

I have installed magnets into the stock sprocket covers, they work great, never fall off and easy to remove.

Hex head screws just make it look a little more realistic compared to the giant size (for 1/16th scale) Philips head screws, but not required.

Impact tracks will work with the stock Tamiya sprockets I have the earlier non-corrected ones I just installed a spacer and have been running them since 2009, later Tamiya sprockets just won't require the spacers.

Impact transmissions, I have those on my Panther, I use them with the drop down gear installed with the hop up gear set # 2 and a 12 tooth steel pinion all from impact and Graupner speed 400s, and mine clocks slightly below scale maximum speed. It still is plenty fast though. One thing about the Impact gearboxes, they are noisy compared to the Tamiya gearboxes, because of the all metal gears, once you get some time on them, they'll quiet down. Keep them well lubed and turn up the sound and you won't even notice them.

Steve

wsn123

___

Panther F

I would address the poor fit with the mantlet and barrel with DT's sleeve OR, Schumo's nice resin mantlet (2 to choose from) and their replacement barrel.

The rear arms are made of pot metal, but Daryl assures me that the TI metal replacement will fit.

The rest has been addressed. Even the torsion bars have a relacement set for it to finely tune in the body tilt the Panthers have!




Jeff

philipat

Where does one find DT's parts? I've heard a lot about various parts that he makes, but never seen a full list of them with prices, pictures or descriptions.

Panther F

I sent you a PM.





Jeff

sevoblast

Philipat, you can find them on my sight listed by Tank type. Panther is here:

http://www.etoarmour.com/products.php?ViewCategory=20

Sight is here.

http://www.etoarmour.com/products.php

The advice the guys gave to you is pretty good. The Panther is a good build OTB, but depending on what you want to do with it, some upgrades are a good idea. Parts Daryl no longer makes are not on sight.

Panther G

I have Impact TU's on my Tamy Panther but they where custom built by Willy. They are an 88:1 ratio which means they'll climb a tree. he used to make them all the way up to 100 and something to one but dosen't make then at all any more. I had an early kit so my tracks where a problem. i went with Impact tracks and sprockets which work perfectly. One thing about the Impact tracks is that the pins can and will start to slip out unless you dab a little glue or paint on the ends. I have the pin side to the inside of the hull. I also have the DT elevation arm and barrel sleeve to eliminate the slippage on the elevation and the wobble in the factory barrel and mantlet. And most importantly, wheel bearings in the road wheels. I think these upgrades are a must and the rest is up to you as far as what you need from it and how you run.
1-Wheel bearings
2-Elevation arm
3- A good TU, Tamy with drop downs, Impact with drop downs and a really good going over to make sure they are true.
The Impacts used to have serious quality issues, but ibelieve most of that was sorted out with help from Willy, which is an entirely different story we wont get into.
The tensioners are good for stack parts so i don't feel anything more is needed there.
just my preference on how to set a Panther up. Oh, 400 motors are plenty but I have a sweet set of long can 400's which most call 480's but are really just long can motors.

philipat

Thanks for the input. I was thinking of Asiatam's metal road wheels, too. They have ball bearings already in them.

MAUS45

I have a set of the asiatam Panther/Jagdpanther road wheels and they have bearings and the "Continental" emblem on the rubber part of the wheel. Very cool and fit with no issues.

Panther G

I have the Asiatam metal wheels with the rubber tires on them for my early Tiger I. They are great wheels for the price and look great too. My Panther is a Tamiya with teflon sealed bearings I got from VXB. That is a great site to get bearings. Every size and style you could ever need and alot easier to use than the BOCA site.
Bearings in the road wheels and idlers can make any tank run much better.

cleong

Are there any bearings that would fit in the Tamiya idler wheels?

Cruiser133

Go with the DT idler system for the Tiger I. If you need his email, let me know, he will make you one. He is a great guy and makes top notch stuff. I just put a set in my Tammy Panther and I only had to modify the speaker box, the rest fit like a glove. I have NO track issues.

philipat

Yea, I just put bearings in the metal road wheels for my PzIII. It runs a lot better with fewer issues with the outer wheels falling off.

VXB...is that this site? www.vxb.com never heard of them before...thanks for the pointer.

MAUS45

What size bearings did you use in your Panzer III? Maybe a list of bearing sizes for the HL and Tamiya tanks could be created for us to use? I am not sure how to measure for to be sure I have the correct inside and out side dimensions, also width?

philipat

3x6x2.5mm

I got them on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yeah-Racing-...item20d1f10871). I had to bore out the wheels a little and shave down the axles a little. Nothing seemed to fit just right. There are two ball bearings in each wheel.

Panther G

Yes thats them. They have great prices and just about every type bearing and size you could need.

Panther G

Unfortunately some of the shafts used in the HL tanks gear boxes do not run at a consistent size. Some of the more expensive quality TU's have better consistency in the shaft sizes so some work may be needed to fit any bearing in any case.

thecommander

I see that many guys have already replied to you post.

I have been battling my Panther regularly since it first came out. It is the best Tamiya IR battle tank with the Pershing very close behind. I have owned 3 of them and you will not be disappointed.



The stock TU's lasted me 4 1/2 years. Just keep them covered and properly lubricated with BOTH oil AND grease. Good speed, power and reliability. Go aftermarket when they finally wear out.

Daryl Turner metal elevation arms are a must.

Weld or glue the slipper gears on the rotation & elevations units solid.

Ball bearings are a very worthwhile upgrade....I still run stock bushings and will replace them soon with BB over the winter. I tear down the tank each winter and go over it thoroughly.

Impact TUs are very good. DD gear makes it too slow.

Skip the metal tracks... they will add unnecessary weight that will kill your speed and maneuverability too much. Just ask Leong. He ditched them at Danville last month and it was like he tank had a turbo-charger afterwards. The stock plastic tracks lasted me 3 years until I wore them smooth. Now I am ready for a 3rd set of tracks. Never lost a pin or a link...EVER.

Keep the wires really neat and don't bind the turret wires too tight. They need to flex some so they coil up nice under your turret...flexibility... NOT rigidity.

Watch the clip-on IR emitter on your barrel travel lock it will hang up when shooting downwards/depressed during recoil.

You may need a counterbalance weight on the back of your recoil. It is nose heavy even with the plastic muzzle brake.

Make sure the stowage on the sponsons does not interfere with the turret rotation. Interference is an issue on many of the Panthers tool & such.

If the barrel is loose in the mantlet try one wrap of the shiny topped scotch tape. It removes the gap and give a slick surface for the recoil action. If not a barrel sleeve from DT may be in order. Daryl Turner had great stuff that is really useful and effective.

When you assemble the turret... Have the elevations arm all the way up (Barrel down and away from the mounting flange) to give yourself some added room. Then flip the turret right side up so that the elevation connecting rod (Z shaped ball ink) hangs down from the recoil bracket. Otherwise it wants to fall over....work with gravity not against it.

Good Luck, Bob, Thecommandernj