SGTMAJMVJ

I will come with an open mind. But I can't drive forward with my barrel pointing at the 45 degree angle. I run into stuff that way. Pointing straight forward just like my Johnson.

cleong

When I turned up last time round at Danville which was TFA, PershingDriver graciously loaned me his TFA apple as mine was unmodified - I reckon this time on standard rules should be enough spare standard TBUs to go around or revert to stock?

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

I have several apples, stock and TFA....I'll share

TheBennyB

Changing between stock and TFA is not a big hassle guys, even if your apple is "glued" in position, just open the top and rotate the mirror. Seriously shouldn't take more than 2 minutes.
Mike, at my last fun run we we're discussing with Bob how complacent the battles have become with not just TFA, but the battle scenarios. Can only pick a chip, go to a zone, and button mash
so many times. I do agree with you the competition battles were great, hope to do more of those. All Bob is saying is we may swap between the two throughout the weekend. NO ones is trying to bring back sweep shot's or gain an advantage running the stock TBU, just want to change it up a bit occasionally. I for one like the more in depth scenario's that put a little stress on an operator. With tankers that travel and stay overnight it's not a cheap weekend so we'd like to take advantage of the size and layout of the Danville battlefield to employ more compicated scenario's. I can pick sides and team deathmatch all day at my own house.

DaveBcool

I am open to both styles, since both have challenges to offer.
And, ultimately, a bad day of RC Tanking is still better than a good day at work, or yard work, or just about everything else.

Unfortunately, introducing the TFA has inadvertently drawn a line in the sand for some.
Some will only come when it is TFA, some have not come back since it was introduced.
I have also learned that it is impossible to make everyone agree on this issue.
So, let's try to be respectful of others opinions here.

(Brett must have put something in the Kool-Aid at his fun run to sway opinion)

If Jake wants to come and organize battles, then that is great.
It takes a lot of time and effort (and can be very frustrating) at an event to herd the cats to the field and get battles going.
So, if one guy wants to take charge then I am happy with that.

At first, I was a little skeptical of the June event also, but it really was fun after a few battles.
Jake did a great job.
I really liked working in teams with a command structure.
The mix of TFA and standard apples added to the chaos/intensity/thrill of battle.

The "Gentleman's Agreement" on fan shots worked for the most part.
However, turreted tanks with standard apples in the heat of battle, almost certainly will fan shot at some point.
Whether it is on purpose or not.

It is a NEAD event and I will play whatever.
I am looking forward to this weekend.

DaveBcool

"Mike, at my last fun run we we're discussing with Bob how complacient the battles have become with not just TFA, but the battle scenarios."

Ha, I knew it!

TheBennyB

Got me Dave! We we're just talking about changing things up a bit. Definitley not trying to draw any lines in the sand. Like you, I have fun either way.
Not trying to make this event completely standard TBU's, just throw a couple battles in of standard apples during the weekend. NEAD is being very gracious in
listening to every opinion and being open to running any kind of battle someone thinks up.

DaveBcool

It is a reasonable request to try different things, but it is best to announce as far in advance as possible.
Which I know is nearly impossible given the distance between us and our busy lives.

Honestly, I think the main cause of the complacency is the fact that the majority of work running the events falls on a few people rather than a whole club like it is supposed to.
Everyone wants to show up and have fun but few want to step up and help out.
The June event was the best organized event in a long time because Jake put the work in before hand.
Part of the reason I try to make an accurate list on RCU of who is coming to start thinking/planning of even teams.

If someone wants to have a certain kind of battle happen at an event, then they should organize it!
Rally the troops!
Make it happen!
When I came up with the round robin battles, I talked with Dana the night before and organized it the best I could.
It was successful because someone took charge and made it happen.
It was a challenge to make the teams as fair as possible, but I think it went OK for the most part.

I think that the commanders of each club are open to ideas as long as they get help running the event.

Sorry this thread got off topic.

TheBennyB

I completely agree Dave. Hard to get everyone organized and the help to do it. It's also difficult with people arriving at different times and different days to establish the battle order of the
hour much less day. And yes, back to the topic on hand...lets have some FUN!!

kinzavrop

Bob, you never answered my question. Will you be inspecting every tank? If we are playing both stock apples and TFA apple configuration, then you will have to inspect all tanks again for proper apple configuration. I remember one weekend that was advertised on HEAT as TFA style, Jake never changed the mirror in his apple and was allowed to play with a stock apple configuration. Will mixed apple play be allowed? If there will be no sweep shooting, then it really doesn't matter how your apple is configured. However, this is based on a gentleman's agreement, but you and I know that there are no gentlemen and sweep shooting will continue if given the chance only if stock apple configuration is the name of the game. Let us be honest and quit speaking with a forked tongue. I want to have fun too and I submitted to Dana and others Will Oliphant's play book for battle games but no one in charge cared. I was there in June and Jake's scenarios were complicated and needed a lot of practice before they made sense to everyone. Also, things fell apart and no one was talking to each other and everyone just fuddled along. It was very time consuming as well. His battles will work only if teams practice together like they did back in the early days of the museum in 2004 - 2008. Honestly, I enjoyed it more when RCACN was in charge. There was less fighting about the style of play. The only fighting was amongst the higherarchy as to who would control RCACN. Rules were more important than having good fun.
Marty

SGTMAJMVJ

I think Dave's round robin battles were a good compromise. The only real-time spent was organizing teams. Even a team that lost a battle had a chance to battle again. I was not there in June so I can't express a first hand opinion of the battle scenarios that took place. But I do think battles should lean more towards team play/competition with a time limit then complicated scenarios that require practice and implementing a chain of command within the teams. I never will understand the desire to go back to stock apple configuration and driving at the 45 degree versus TFA and driving with your barrel forward. If sweep shooting isn't allowed then why drive at the 45? Anyhow I'll give it a go with an open mind and see how things transpire. Since this was advertised as a TFA event I fully expect to see a fair amount of TFA tanks allowed to battle. Anything short of that smacks our recent experience with the ACA where we were told one thing and found out otherwise.

CustomRCmodels

who is fighting about this ?
it seams more like it that some of you guys hooked on the push-button-simple-no-thrills-TFA style do not want to allow others to do some more advanced battling.

Bob wrote that he favors stock TBU style , that's all .
Does that mean this will be a stock TBU event ?
NO - it just says that we also could do stock TBU style battles .
Which in this case would be a mix out of stock and TFA ,
since for the turret-less tanks the TFA is a cool setup in between stock tanks .
and if we don't have enough people wanting to do this ,
its gone go down the drain anyways .

Please , let's don't screw this up before the event even started !
everybody should have the chance to play his preferred game-play .

we have an x-amount of people do like TFA only ,
we have an x-amount of people do like stock only ,
and we even have an x-amount of people don't even know what it's like to play stock TBU setup .
not to mention these people which don't care and would play either way.

Lets stop these darn discussion which is better or worse , or why we should NOT do stock TBU battles , since there is no answer to that , its just a personal preference !

and our ( ACE ) personal preference for some of these advanced scenarios we like to play is the mix out of stock and TFA , but we also play TFA only ...

so why can't we play both styles ? what's the big idea about fighting against that ?

again ,
Bob's comment that he favors stock TBU battles means :
get your stuff together and come to Danville to play ,
no matter which battle-style you prefer ,
we ALL will work on to make it an enjoyable event for everyone !

SGTMAJMVJ

No fighting here. Looking forward to coming and I'll have an open mind. My opinions have always been numerous and often. No plans on changing either. Everyone bring cash I will have some unique 1:16 and 1:18 scale German WW2 vehicles and figures for sale.

Green Amphibian

I will play either way. I have my Sherman and my StuG. I like the TFA, and I liked the June events, but still think the Axis side had an advantage with so many heavy tanks aginst the mediums of the Allies. Other than that, I thought it was great.

Herman

kinzavrop

All I wanted to know is will there be inspections or not on previously inspected tanks. I never got an answer to that. I prefer no inspections because everyone should have their **** together before coming to Danville. If anyone sees a problem during a fight (like no flash) point it out for corrective action. I had no intention about getting anyone angry. You guys are too sensitive about your apples. It should not matter which mirror configuration is in play as long as no one sweeps or fan shoots. Having a mix of tanks on the field with both mirror configurations in the same battle will keep you on your toes, Bret. You will not be bored I guarantee it. You will have to think constantly about your opponents and what type of shot will register a hit. I enjoy playing team battles with the same tankers for at least a half day before moving on to other teams. It is enjoyable building camaraderie among players.

thecommander

WOW...what happened. I got called into work for the mall shooter and viola.... LOL.

First off: I am sorry Marty that I didn't answer you more completely. I had a hectic past few days. The PD I work for now was in the thick of it at the mall shooting since we boarder Paramus .

We will inspect tanks for sound volume, "Light, med., heavy" taking hits until dead (Standard apple and/or TFA), Main Gun flash, emitter depth & bore and apple obstructions etc. It will be quick and simple. I am a thick headed Kraut.... but I am open minded and flexible in tank battle. I have always deplored the bizarre nature of the fan shot. Our gentlemen's agreement works well. I has not been an issue for almost two years now. I work my butt off trying to get guys to come to Danville (with or without a IR battle tank) and offer the loan of my tanks for test drives/battles as a goodwill gesture. I am sure anyone who comes will have fun this weekend. Hence my money back guarantee. I do believe that the TD/Turret less tanks should have the perk of the TFA configuration. We thoroughly discussed that over 7 years ago at Ciro's. It was not until the proliferation of TDs, JPs and Stugs that it came to fruition. I don't believe TFA is needed on a turreted tank. It can change hull/turret orientation at any time. We have several IFA tanks there too and they can be killed too... but we just need to be more creative about it. That is the fun and challenge in having a variety of scenarios.

As for the event listing, I did not write or post it so I cannot answer for its content. I'm sure it was meant as a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. That is the way I will interpret it. I am sure we will have enough apples to suit everyone needs. I too did admire the RCAN rules for there consistency, but disliked their unwavering rigidity. Fair and reasonable....I preached that for 31+ years on the force and I will treat everyone the same at Danville whenever NEAD is running an event. We all get along quite well in our Danville family and I welcome discussions(...not arguments) like this. As long as we use this discussion constructively we will all have a great time this weekend.

Thank you all for your kind words and being gentleman here. I know whenever I leave Danville after seeing you all, I have a huge smile on my face and can't wait until the next battle weekend where we will meet again. You are my extended family and you all are my missing "brothers from other mothers".

Come with an open mind and a positive outlook and everything will fall into place. See you all on Friday. Bob, NEAD CO

CustomRCmodels

maybe a dumb question Mike ,
but what or who is ACA ?

SGTMAJMVJ

ACA is the Affordable Care Act better known as Obama Care. A comparison where something is advertised as one thing to get people to buy into it but changed later to suit someone else's favor.

SGTMAJMVJ

Bob,
Not really sure what you mean by " I don't believe TFA is needed on a turreted tank". Please clarify. Are turreted tanks going to be allowed to battle with TFA?

TheBennyB

Mike, we'll be doing some scenario battles on Saturday between lunch and dinner which will be turreted tanks with stock apples and fixed structure tanks being TFA. We'll run battles in between the scenario battles which can be whatever people want. As far as I know all day Friday and Sunday will be all TFA all the time unless anyone else has some ideas for battle type.

CustomRCmodels

oh heck , I knew it was a dumb question , Lol ...
just another can of worms ....
but lets not get in to that one ....

SGTMAJMVJ

Bob,
Seven years ago no one knew about the ability to change the apple to TFA. Found this below. New I thought November was sold as a TFA event. On HEAT and RCU.
RE: Special Rules for JUNE DANVILLE EVENT

CustomRCmodels

Mike ,
what is it with you ?
you really seam to fight against the mix battling of stock and TFA .
as Bret wrote , it would be some battles during Saturday with the mixed setup .
can't we have 1/2 day out of an entire 3 day weekend to do something different ?
come on man , stop this complaining around about this .

besides ,
that yearly schedule is always made beginning of the year ,
then we didn't know how the June event would turn out .
It opened the eyes of a few people , and therefore it was decided , as an option ,
to may do some of these battles during the November event

what's the problem with that ?
let's let us ALL have fun , ok ?
Everyone , not just a selected group , which it would be , if we would do ONLY TFA battling

SGTMAJMVJ

No problem here. Just making a point to ensure TFA gets equal time for November.

Dana Lowell

I will run my Jagdpanther with the new TFA defense from now on. Makes sense.
But I will run my Sherman tank with either TFA or Stock TBU, depending on what the host club asks us to do. It only takes 1 minute to change.

Hope we can run the "Jake & Dave-style" CO/XO Team Campaign on Saturday afternoon! That was very fun and challenging in June.

See you all Friday evening!