Pah co chu puk

Were winterketten tracks ever used in France, or were they a piece of equipment used exclusively on the Russian front?

Could some have come along with units transfered from the east to France before / after D-day?

Snow is here in Colorado now, and my stug runs much better in snow with the winterketten tracks, but I am modeling it as being in France, thus the question.

rivetcounter

Winter ketten were never used in France as in the Normandy campaign this was a summer offensive, I don’t recall ever seeing a picture of anything in the Ardennes offensive fitted with these tracks

Pah co chu puk

I too haved looked at lots of pictures and never seen any in France.

I just thought I would ask because I am not an expert.

Thanks.

thecommander

I guess the name..Ostketten says it all. I also think they were only used in the east.

CustomRCmodels

as far as I know , the Winterketten und Ostketten are 2 different type tracks .
the Winterketten looked like it would have extensions on each link , while the Ostketten are also wider , but they looked more like a Panther or Tiger 1 track .
I belief the Winterketten came out in 42 while the Ostketten came out in 44 ....
both types for the use on the eastern front

Pah co chu puk

Well I already own the winterketten tracks so that means my stug crew will enjoy summers in France and winters in Russia. Lucky them.

FreakyDude

So lets look at what had the winterketten, Mostly PZ3 and its variants, Tigers didn't have them, KT nope, Panthers nope The Bulge being the last great push was early winter with snow everywhere. I have not seen any mention of PZ3 being used there, Stugs were used but can we prove they had winterketten, I found this searching around http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...?f=50&t=184705
then look at this http://www.network54.com/Forum/57159...+-+Normandy+44
If you are going to find winterketten it will be on a Stug and I doubt anything else

rivetcounter

In the Ardennes offensive the Germans used Stug III, PzIV, Stug IV, Jagdpanzer IV, Nashorn plus a few other variants based on Pz IV chassis though as far as I’m aware none had Winterketten fitted these were more important in the East than the west, in the winter of 44 the Ardennes had its worst winter for many years but during the build-up to the offensive it wouldn’t have been foreseen that the winter would have been so bad snow in the Eifel this time of year is normal though not usually as bad as this year by the time it was realised winterketten would be of use it would have been too late to transferee tracks from the East were they were badly needed so I feel very confident they would not have been used during the Ardennes offensive

Rex Ross

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Hey ..... go for it, that could have happened ...... war is weird.

I think I remember reading about a little known and long forgotten incident where a Stug with winterketten tracks was being transported by rail from the factory (thru France) to the Eastern Front. The train it was on was attacked and damaged by British aircraft (Tornados and Typhoons), and the Stug was off loaded and spent the winter in the Ridgway region of France, which resembles the Bocage region of Colorado. It was the one and only Stug ever deployed that way. Or at least that's the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.

Pah co chu puk

WOW! I heard that story too! The internet is wierd.

Mostly this convinces me I need three stugs... one for North Africa, one for Russia, and one for France.

If I had my pick, I would have served in the one in France.

rivetcounter

Just one small problem with this tale, the Stug factories are in Germany and to send a Stug or any tank to the Eastern front France is the opposite direction this is the same as sending an item from Newyork to Canada via Mexico, it makes no sense, the problem with some stories is the authors just have no clue of the European layout France has never been a short cut to Russia or Poland

Rex Ross

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My story is exactly that .... a story .... a tall tale. It was intended as a joke, not to be taken seriously by anyone as a historically accurate fact. The story only makes sense if all of the direct rail lines to Russia were destroyed in the bombing raids and supplies to Russia had to take a circuitous route. My inspiration was a movie called "The Train", starring Burt Lancaster. It was about a train that was diverted all over France in WWII to avoid the loss of stolen art treasures to the bad guys. It is true that I have no clue about the layout of the railroads anywhere in Europe. I hope you will overlook my ignorance and try to appreciate my clueless sense of humor. However, I agree with you, some people don't have a clue.

Pah co chu puk

I understand the geography of Europe so I understood that Rex was joking.

Rivetcounter, I respect your knowledge of WW 2 history and was very happy when you chimed in with your insights and observations. You are among a handful of people who I believe actually research their facts. I also respect Rex’s sense of humor when pushed to the wall about an explanation of historical (or is that hysterical) events. Both have a place in my Tank history information data base.

Thank you both for adding to this thread.