YHR

Panther G

I agree this action is concerning. I haven't got my head in the sand, and that is why I chose to finally engage in this debate, The consequences of an armed conflict with the Russians would not be good for any of us. I believe in the human rights we so strongly defend in NA. I just haven't seen any of these violated in this Crimean action. There has been next to no news about anything wrong going on in the referendum that was held. IF I had reason to believe the Crimeans were not truly happy with this outcome then I would be more inline with the sanctions and threat of an armed conflict over it.

The one guy we have on the ground there has indicated that the police action of the Russian troops were welcomed.

So................... I am thinking this one through a lot before I jump on the band wagon my political leaders what me to.

YHR

Got your supply of water and canned goods stocked up. Key codes ready.

YHR

I know and that is the sad part in all this.

Cold Comfort

My Feedback: (1)

Dan I am with you. Still trying to figure out what is the real situation. Hard to believe the great concern for democracy in other parts of the world from our own PM when the most expensive building ever to be built in Canada will be for the spy agency. Perhaps Putin should use more peaceful and tolerant language, like "either your with us or against us." But what can you expect from a "gas station country". Taking the time to get info and making an informed opinion appears to be a time luxury our western leaders don't want. I wonder how our PM would feel if France said it would like to support Quebec in a separation bid from the rest of the country.

Greg

GerKonig

Tin foil hat on....

Gerry

DackelFlugel

How old are you? what nonsense from a nation that once had CIA head henchmen George Bush Snr as president- elected of course. Forgotten that fool George Walker Bush's father who happened to be a Skull and Bones man, like his father banker to the Nazi war machine Prescott Bush, George Bush Snr, who headed up an equally if not more evil organization the CIA? Forgotten all the fully documented through FOIA CIA black flag operations? Operation Northwoods where the US would bomb and murder its own citizens on US soil to create a causes bello for war with Cuba? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods Gulf of Tonkin incident as entire premise for Vietnam War- which killed 50.000 Americans, maimed 200.000 and kileld at least 5 million Vietnamese? http://fair.org/media-beat-column/30...d-vietnam-war/ Let's not forget the entire farce of the US Iraq invasion which and I qute GW Bush as stating on UN record to the GA:, Sep 12 2002: "Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." On Sept. 9, 2004, in Pennsylvania, Mr. Bush said: "I recognize we didn't find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there." Bush and the US killed thousands of people based on a known lie. Putin kills Chechen terrorists funded by Qatar and Saudi Arabia- then build LARGEST MOSQUE in EUROPE. Sevastopol is patrolled by technically unarmed unknown state soldiers- it is obvious their guns are not functional- they carry them openly without the usual 30 round clip. Secondly Sevastopol was GIFTED TO UKRAINE by Stalin in 1954 On July 10, 1993, the Russian parliament passed a resolution declaring Sevastopol to be "a federal Russian city". So it is hardly a new issue, considering it is 72%+ MAJORITY RUSSIAN population, Ukraine has an agreement for Russia to operate its military bases in perpetuity, and allow up to 25.000 soldiers with notice into the Crimean peninsular. Let us juxtapose this against the grand imperial footprint of 700+ US bases globally. Since Iraq- the US-UK have no basis for moral indignation or superiority. Their former leaders Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, are war criminals barred from entering many European nations. But I am glad the population of Sevastopol are safe and well, I wish them all the very best and hope everything can be resolved peacefully. The history of Ukraine and Russia is tragic enough without adding new chapters. Wishing you all the very best in Ukraine and Crimea.

HAL_HUSKER

Crimea was gifted to Ukraine not by Stalin, but by Khurschev - remark.
+ in 1993 ( if I am correct) the big gang was thinking shall we return Crimea to Russia? Everybody was waiting what Gorbatchev would say. And he kept silent he was not caring and it was all the same for him.

there are a lot of other hidden facts that the whole world does not know about HOW today's Ukraine got its territotory - I mean due to whose good will and gestures...

EugeniRUS

I am no fan of Putin. But his latest actions will keep his name in history with a big plus.

evarnad

While you say the US wars were for oil, I'm of the opinion that is not true at all. If we could get our beloved spineless President out of the way we would have more oil than the entire middle east available between us and Canada. Therefore no need for foreign oil and natural gas I might add.

You know all people and countries make mistakes over time and yours made a big one, not recognizing the USA and going against our desire for freedom. We continue to fight for our freedom daily both internally and externally and will never stop.

evarnad

Only time will tell, what if later they want to revert back will it be so easy. Maybe Russia doesn't support them as the should, will the Russian troops just pack up and go away, no way in hell !!!!!

YHR

Other viewpoints. More info can't hurt.

http://www.eureferendum.com/


http://www.voanews.com/content/eu-cr...l/1865590.html

I was also told that there were 137 EU observors in Crimea, and non of them reported anything being carried out to intimidate voters.

What I am trying to decide is if the people of Crimea do want to be part of the Russian Federation. Everything I read, tells me they do. So if this is the case exactly what should our response be.............. Are we going to threaten war because a region of the world overwhelming decided to be part of the Russian Federation.

The world is a dynamic place. Hawaii and Alaska are part of the US now. They were not always that way. The Hawaii history is an extremely interesting read.

I just want the truth, without all the BS. A lot decides on it, so I just want to educate myself on the issue.

Cruiser133

Amen, I wish Ronald Reagan were still around....

Cruiser133

O-vey

Looks like an old communist managed to awake from the dead to post garbage and outdated conspiracy theories. Need I remind you, the whole damn world was pretty convinced of WMD in Iraq at that time and it was not some "sell job" as you insist. Also, there has been some evidence to suggest those weapons were smuggled to Syria and elsewhere prior to invasion, and even IF they never existed, so what? Saddam is gone and the world is a better place for it. If you really want to dig up the past, Stalin managed to murder MILLIONS of his own people not to mention all the incursions over the years into eastern Europe to "restore order". Notice I didn’t mention Afghanistan?

rivetcounter

Evarand, what I said was Iraqi 2 was for oil with a false argument that Sadam was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction and was capable of launching missiles in 7 minutes both proven to be very wrong and at the Time Bush apparently had “Intelligence” to back his case.

If Iraqi 2 wasn’t for oil, tell us which leading government figure awarded multibillion $ contracts to his own company.



I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about

YHR

Well we don't know that do we. The Russians never gave up control of the ports when they gifted the region to the Ukraine in 1954 so have always had a huge interest in the area, This is what I am trying to say. A war with Russia would be Hell on earth. Are you going to go down that road on fact or fiction? I can't image a worse case scenario and yet we have people in power trying their best to make things worse then they are. Why would anyone do that???

We sure don't want to start a world war over poor intelligence.

Cruiser133

Again Rivet, I respectfully counter with a SO WHAT? I really don’t care if some wish to throw out the blood for oil mantra, the WMD angle, Bush lining his pockets conspiracies, the bottom line is Saddam misplayed his hand, he was an evil son of a ***** and the world is better now he is gone. We stood with our honorable allies from England, Canada, Australia, and Europe and kicked ass. The reason means little, the end result means much. I am attempting to be lighthearted

lposter

Bet ye all wish now this had been taken over to the Tankers Lounge where it belonged in the first place?

p

rivetcounter

Cruiser, don’t fall for this, I don’t believe this person is Russian let alone Communist, whoever he is he’s hiding and trying to steer you in the wrong direction of his real nationality.

Wenn mein Dackel Flügel hätte - When my Dachshund had wings, it’s a child’s book

Cruiser, I have always been behind Afghanistan this was a just action, yes things were done wrong and could have been handled better but no one apart from Taliban supporters were against this.
Iraqi on the other hand was somewhat different Sadam and Binladen were ideologically opposed to each other there has never been a shred of evidence to suggest the 2 were allied in any way as bad as Sadam was he didn’t support the Taliban, WMD and Iraqi has always been a moot point even before the war I still remember that smug grin on Blair’s face when he said “trust me, Sadam has weapons of mass destruction” without this Blair would never have received support from either his government or the people, in England Blair is no hero, there was an inquest into Iraqi of cause Blair was cleared but even Blair’s closest allies believe the inquest was a white wash, because of Blair’s actions England today can’t become involved in any confrontation as seen last year with Syria not without overwhelming undeniable evidence no one will support it, in the House of commons Blair was quoted as a reason why England cannot become involved in conflict, Blair is the first PM to face an inquest for an unjust war he brought shame on our land.

I agree Sadam was an evil git and did have to go and go for the right reasons, the reasons chosen were not right.

It wasn’t Bush who lined his pockets, one of his cronies

tomhugill

Haha that says everything really....

tomhugill

Oh boy, double standards ahoy....So basically your saying regime change is ok if you don't like the guy in charge.....gotcha. Is Iraq or the middle east better off without Saddam? Debatable, whilst he was undoubtedly a tyrant he did provide a stabilising influence on Iraq and the region. I would imagine far more people have died as a result of his toppling and the subsequent instability than where ever killed as a result of his rule...and that's saying something....

Cruiser133

You can honestly type this with a strait face? I wonder if the Kurds share your view? You forget the war with Iran? The rape rooms? The rape of Kuwait? Please...

And yes, Reagan is an American icon who dared to stand (with Maggie Thatcher) against the evil empire while most wet their pants. Your post says everything really

tomhugill

Reagan was a hawk who came very close to presiding over WW3 and thatcher (with her government) did an excellent job of crippling the heavy industry in the uk and bringing untold misery to the working class....not really icons in my view but each to their own. Ill admit I had forgotten about the Iran Iraq war, but in the early 80's I believe the US where supporting Iraq against Iran? Be clear I'm not saying I'm Pro Saddam, just very against the second us/uk war in Iraq.

Oh and in that context it's spelt straight.

lposter

The problem with threads like these and the resultant, inevitable arguments, is that people who you once thought of only in respect of what they knew about rc tanks become difficult to take seriously once they've started spouting their oddly held beliefs in all manner of things.

So instead of Poster X who has an admirable knowledge of late war Tigers.......he/she becomes Poster X who has an admirable knowledge of late war Tigers but is above all a blithering idiot with strange conspiracy theories and a weak grasp of reality and is painfully gullible.

And then it becomes hard to take Poster X seriously in regards to anything (especially when one begins to wonder why someone with his beliefs has a strong interest in German tanks).

It really is unfortunate. There must be half a dozen people who have posted in this thread who are now more raving nutjobs/right wing/left wing fantasists than people who are clever with rc tanks.

Dissappointing.

p

Cruiser133

Damn, you got me. In my haste, I failed to catch that. I appreciate the English lesson. Oh and in that context I believe the word spelled, would be more appropriate. It's usage is far superior in the modern vernacular. But to each their own indeed.

"Ill admit I had forgotten about the Iran Iraq war, but in the early 80's I believe the US where supporting Iraq against Iran? Be clear I'm not saying I'm Pro Saddam, just very against the second us/uk war in Iraq."

BTW, in that context it's WERE(or more correctly was) supporting Iraq..... See, I can play as well!

Cruiser133

Too true, but I still like you!