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  1. #1

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    Question Next tank build, assistance needed

    I have the urge to build another tank, and I would like some assistance from this great community.

    A few years back, I built a Tamika Leo. It as my first tank build, and while not everything wen as I had hoped, I think it turned out pretty good for a first build.

    Now I want to do another build ND take it to the next level by adding more detail parts and even trying y hand at PE.

    When deciding on the basic subject, I have come up with the Tiger I. I made this decision mostly because of the vast number of upgraded part available. The sky is pretty much the limit with a Tiger.

    Now, my first decision is what to start with as a base for my project. I have narrowed it down to either the Tamiya FO kit, or he Taigen kit.

    From my Le o build, I know the Tamiya kit is very high quality and I could mostly concentrate on he details.

    I also like the Taigen because of all the included metal parts, and the fact that I can learn another aspect of this hobby, electronics. I just don't have any experience with them.

    So, I could use some input on which of these would be a better starting point for my build. If there is something else that would be even better, please let me know. My budget is not unlimited, so the Aeromate is out.


    Thanks for the help,

    Steve
    Last edited by metalhead1986; 03-22-2014 at 02:56 PM.

  2. #2
    ausf's Avatar
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    From the aspect of detail and use of PE, which is how I build, you're better off with Tamiya and plastic. Much more accurate and easier to alter styrene than it is metal.

    I see the attraction of metal in terms of weight and hardiness, but not it terms of modeling. You are really limited in terms of battle damage, removal of clunky detail of even slight alterations. If you want to change a small inaccuracy of something like the position of a tow shackle eye, you're out of luck. You're certainlt not going to be able to take a heatgun and dent some shrouds or fenders.

    If you do go with PE, use a strong PVA based glue over CA. CA has zero sheer strength and you'll leave a majority of it on the ground. I used an acrylic binder (Pebeo's Bindex) on the full Aber kit on my original Tammy Tiger I and even items like the rear deck mounted jack withstood crashing through bushes, etc.
    What, me worry?

  3. #3

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    Thanks ausf.

    I have not determined how far I wild go with detail, but your points are very good about not being able to alter the metal turret (and other metal parts) of the Taigen.

    How are the Aber PE parts? I have been looking at them. One thing I know is that I will need to lots of practice before spending the cash on the parts for the tank.

    As for other upgrade parts, will metal hatches, cupola, etc. from ETO, Matomart, etc. Work wit the Tamiya?

    Ah, so many questions, but I want to make the right decision.

    Steve
    Last edited by metalhead1986; 03-22-2014 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #4
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    Please do not take this the wrong way.....but tiger1's are so over done. There were 1300 tiger built and I would guess every one that has been captured in a picture has had a 1000 or more copies made....you want options, build a panther. There were over 6000 made, 4 and a half differnt models and untold field paint and equipment mods. If you want to battle it, the tamiya panther is the best in the game imo.
    That which does not destroy me just makes me more irritable

  5. #5
    ausf's Avatar
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    The Tiger is iconic, that's why it's so often modeled. The numbers made (which I thought were around 2500) are immaterial were due to the fact it was closer to building a locomotive than a tank. By numbers logic, we should only have Shermans and T-34s. It's like throwing out the Corvette in lieu of Impalas.

    I can't speak to whether aftermarket metal hatches for HL are Tamiya compatible, but unless you are going for open hatches in the build, there's no reason to toss out the kit parts.

    In terms of PE, in reality, where it shines on 1/16 RC is mostly on tool clamps and screens. Things like exhaust shrouds and fenders can be reasonably represented with altering the kit part and styrene to styrene with be much stronger.

    Aber makes a German clamp set that is all I really use at this point. Everything else can be scratch built:

    What, me worry?

  6. #6
    mustclime's Avatar
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    pretty much 1347-1355 depending on what your sorse was....

    http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/...tiger-tank.htm
    That which does not destroy me just makes me more irritable

  7. #7

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    Thanks for the replies.

    I looked into the Panther, and I am still leaning towards the Tiger I. I like the looks better, and there are more aftermarket upgrades (that I can find), so I can go as crazy as my desire, skill and budget allow.

    Speaking of skill, PE looks to be the biggest challenge of this build. I will start small and see where it less me.

    I would like the hatches to be operable, which is why I asked about Matomart and ETO parts. If there are add-ons to make the stock hatches operable, that works, too.

  8. #8

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    I checked out the Panther but am still leaning towards the Tiger I. I like it better, and there seems to be much more in the way of aftermarket upgrades. I can go as crazy as my desire, skill, and budget allows.

    Speaking of skill, the PE will be the most challenging art of this build, as I am new to PE. I will start small and go from there.

    I want the hatches to be operable, which is why I asked about the Matomart and ETO parts. If I can find something to add on to the stock parts to make them operable, that works, too.

  9. #9

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    Since I seem to be leaning towards the Tamiya kit, I wanted to ask about any upgrades I should make to the basic kit to make it more reliable.

    I found a thread bout this from a few years ago, but some of the links no longer work, so I figured I would ask again.

    I found upgraded fission bar systems, gearboxes, etc. but I don't know what would be really useful.

    Thanks again,

    Steve

  10. #10
    ausf's Avatar
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    You're going to get a whole bunch different recommendations regarding bearings, gearboxes, etc. based on personal preferences.

    For myself, I built mine stock over 10 years ago, using the metal bushings and nothing else mechanically that wasn't included in the kit. In all that time, being used by myself and my sons, even when they were real young, it still is going strong and remains one of my most reliable tanks. I only lubed the gears twice in that time and the only adjustment I had to make was with the torsion bars, which was my fault. Until last year, I let it sit on it's running gear on the shelf, not on a block like you should, so the bars fatigued. I was going to replace them, but ended up just bending them back and they sit fine. It also has the original kit ABS tracks.

    The thing has fought in houses, fields, backyards, rolled off a wall, bounced down three concrete steps, had 1/16 oak trees fall on it (decapitated the commander three times) and it still runs like a top.

    I don't think I'd get better performance with a different gearbox, roller bearings or anything else, 10 years of use and abuse without issue, nothing added but batteries.
    What, me worry?

  11. #11

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    Thanks for the words of advice ausf. They really speak to the quality of the Tamika kit.

    I will probably put ball bearings in, but that is due to my background in cars, trucks, and helis, where bearings (good bearings) can be the difference between a good time and a pile of pieces.

  12. #12
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    Agreed....as cool as the Tiger is, EVERYONE has a Tiger.....zzzzzz. If you want to really get crazy with modding and details, then get a body kit get from profiline and build a Jagdpanzer or something that you don't see too many of!




    Quote Originally Posted by mustclime View Post
    Please do not take this the wrong way.....but tiger1's are so over done. There were 1300 tiger built and I would guess every one that has been captured in a picture has had a 1000 or more copies made....you want options, build a panther. There were over 6000 made, 4 and a half differnt models and untold field paint and equipment mods. If you want to battle it, the tamiya panther is the best in the game imo.

  13. #13
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    Tiger hatches

    Another option on the Tiger I hatches is to see if you can still get the "K" sprue from the Static Desert Tiger. Along with some early Tiger parts and tank commander, it also includes the hinge and interior details for the two front hatches.

    From the promotional info, it may be part of the new Early Tiger RC kit.

    You can always contact Karen at the AAF Museum shop and find out if they can get it for you.



    (The Following is from Axel's Modellbau-Shop)

    K Parts sprue for the Tamiya Tiger I Display Model

    Item-No.: 0113024
    Manufacturer: Tamiya


    Content:

    Early "Feivel" airfilter box
    Tank commander figure from the Tiger I display model kit (different figaure as the one from the FO kit, with field cap, shirt with short sleeves and hand on the hatch)
    Lifting pins for the armored exhaust cover
    Rearlight
    Moveable hatch hinges for the drivers- and radio operators hatch
    Inside details for the drivers- and radio operators hatch (Hatch locking and periscopes)
    Early armored exhaust covers
    Early gun mantle
    Butterflyscrews for the tow cable holders.
    Steps for the front track link holders (for Tiger 131)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Kevin O'C <S.C.A.T.> www.socalareatankers.com -Tamiya-Sherman/Tiger/Pershing/Pnzr IV/Kubelwagen/HL-Tiger, Pnzr III/Mato Sherman

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyBird69 View Post
    Agreed....as cool as the Tiger is, EVERYONE has a Tiger.....zzzzzz. If you want to really get crazy with modding and details, then get a body kit get from profiline and build a Jagdpanzer or something that you don't see too many of!


    Dont do this, go with panzerparts if you must do the JPIV. Profiline went **** up and I lost a bunch of money as a result...
    Tamiya-King Tiger (H), Tiger, Pershing, Sherman, Panther G, PZIV, Leopard 2A6. Hybrid Tamiya/Matorro-Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger. Taigen-PZIII (metal). Hooben-Elefant. In the works-Lowe and E-100

  15. #15

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    Hi good luck with the project, I work with PE and the secret is to not be tied to the items provided ie- Dolls house accessories makers produce brass hinges that work, are strong, and available in many sizes, and they do working slide bolts, the Tiger 1 fenders can be easy or hard, it depends how devoted to the original you want to be, with the Voyager PE (cheaper and easier build than ABER) instead of building the frame that goes around the edges of the fender I cut 1mm plasticard to size and glue it to the back of the fenders then pin vise through and use small pins to go through the holes a drop of glue, then when set snip off the excess and instead of using the plastic dowel that looks awful you have fenders that work and look exactly right. shaun

  16. #16

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    I would second the recommendation of getting a tiger, I'm just starting a DAK tiger with the tamiya k sprue and some
    PE. Regarding the fenders I would get the tank modelbau ones. They're easy to put together and come with proper threaded bolts and the mounting point are pre cut pre drilled abs so much easier than abers offering.

    If you want to do a tiger pay no attention to the nay sayers. It's a great model.
    Tamiya:leopard 2a6, king tiger, Porsche king tiger, panther g, jagdpanther. Hooben: elefant, t-55. HL panther f, Jagdpanther

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyBird69 View Post
    Agreed....as cool as the Tiger is, EVERYONE has a Tiger.....zzzzzz. If you want to really get crazy with modding and details, then get a body kit get from profiline and build a Jagdpanzer or something that you don't see too many of!


    profiline is gone buddy. Sold off the molds to someone...
    "There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
    Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov


    1 x HL KT, WIP 1 x HL Early Panther G, WIP 1x HL Late Panther A, 1 x HL/PP Jadgpanzer L70 (V), 1 x WSN T-34/85, WIP 1xWSN/Trumpeter T34/76, 1 x HL KV-1, 1 x 6th Hussars 2nd Armoured Brigade Sherman 105/ Jumbo hybrid, WIP HL PZ. IV L70 paper panzer. All Clark, all IR, all servo recoil.


  18. #18

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    DO YOUR TANK... THE WAY YOU WANT IT !!!

    You want a Tiger? Build YOUR Tiger !

    It is, after all, the iconic WW II tank.

    As for the platform .... I have just received my first Tiagen tank and it is very good. They did a nice job. It has many errors... but it is a good value. It is a late Tiger which is the ONLY reason I bought it. and....because Tamiya doesn't make it...they are rare. For the best value and always keeping an eye on resale, I would strongly recommend using the Tamiya tank as the basis for your super detailed tank. I would not recommend putting all that time, detail, blood, sweat and tears (oh my... all that PE work) into anything else but the highest quality platform available. You just don't put pearls on a pig.

    I am very excited about what Erik and Taigen is doing... but use the Tamiya for a very sound foundation.
    Last edited by thecommander; 03-26-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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  19. #19

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    Personally i would build the Tamiya M26 Pershing. As far as kits go this is Tamiya's most interesting aside from the Leo kit to build. That is my opinion on the matter. It has quite a good bit of detailing and is actually fairly challenging to build correctly, so that is my suggestion if you can afford it. It is also one of the more affordable Tamiya kits.
    Tamiya Panther G, HL/Tamiya TigerI, WSN/HL T-34/85, WSN/Tamiya T-34/85, WSN/HL DBCRC2 T-34/85, HL/Tamiya Pershing, Mato/Tamiya Sherman,HL KV-1, HL Pz III, HL/Custom scratch JP, HE/Tamiya Abrams, HE/Tamiya LEO 2A5, Vs Abrams M1A1, Vs T-72, HL Bergepanthe

  20. #20

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    Thanks for all the replies. I have been on vacation and replying on my tablet is less than pleasurable, but I have ben reading everything.

    For those that have suggested other tanks, thank you, but I have decided to build a Tiger. They may be snoozers to some, but I don't own one, and the model is really starting to grow on me, the fact that it is the icon that it is makes it that much more interesting to me.

    The Pershing has always interested me, and may be a project down the road, but this one will be a Tiger I.

    I ordered the Tamiya kit over the weekend and will arrive tomorrow.

    I will go over the kit and start my research into what I want to do with it and how far I want to go with detail.

    Steve

  21. #21

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    Thanks ksoc.

    If the detail parts are not part of the new kit, and I don't go the PE route for the hatch details, I will see about the K sprue from the static Desert Tiger.

    Steve

  22. #22

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    Thanks Shaun and Tom for the advice on the PE. I ordered a Hold and Fold from Small Shop and the Aber clasps for early German armor to play around with. That will give me some experience with the Abe parts.

    I will certainly look into the other manufacturers you mentioned, as I am in no hurry to make thing too difficult for myself. Looking over the instructions for the Abe, they look very detailed but not for thru faint of heart. I had a hard time figuring out some of the parts.

    You both mentioned PE fenders. Since I have not gotten the kit yet, I have not gotten to take a close look at the stock fenders. What was the reason you replaced the stock fenders? Were they that off?

    Steve

  23. #23

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    Thanks Charlie, but 1/6 is a little big for me right now.

  24. #24

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    Good choice Steve. Enjoy the build and share pix with us. The PE fenders can be damaged and bent much more realistically than the thick plastic from Tamiya. You can also make your own fenders too. Or just make one or two damaged ones and have a fender piece missing. Gook luck.
    Join us at NEAD: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/queenspanzergroup/
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  25. #25
    ausf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalhead1986 View Post

    You both mentioned PE fenders. Since I have not gotten the kit yet, I have not gotten to take a close look at the stock fenders. What was the reason you replaced the stock fenders? Were they that off?

    Steve
    There is absolutely zero issues with the kit fenders or track guards. You are much better off using them over PE (especially for track guards) since the glued styrene bond is so much stronger than you can get with brass unless you're globbing on epoxy.

    Anything you can do to damage or bend PE can be done to plastic (this example is 1/35):

    http://ausfwerks.com//techniques/fender/main.html

    Even if you want missing guards or fender pieces, it can be done with good planning and a sharp blade.
    What, me worry?


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