reyemmanuel

Hello,

I am after the engine sound of the Maybach HL 210 TRM P45.

Would appreciate any link to a video or an audio file to it.

PS. For Benedini users: Just wondering if the Tiger1.tbs represents the Maybach HL 210 TRM P45?

cheers,
Rey

YHR

The Tiger 1 started with the 210 but it was underpowered and then the 230s were put in. So the answer would be it is not wrong to have the 210 in an early Tiger

Benedini has 3 sound files for the Tiger, but I don't think they are labeled to indicate which Maybach they represent..

reyemmanuel

Hi Dan,

Indeed, albeit still underpowered, the additional 50 horses the newer 230's spewed out on the Tiger 1 was better than the 210s.

Desiring to recreate the Tiger 1s from 1./504 in Tunisia, the 210 engine sound would be best to have.

The Bov 131's engine sound isn't correct for the 131, having been supplied from another vehicle (KT V3 prot) and either Thomas' or Clark's Tiger 1 sounds (except Tiger1.tbs) sound too "girly". Both recorded sounds are less bassy with the engine idling sound treble-heavy and annoying.

I could not find any sounds from HL 210 TRM P45 engine as yet.

cheers,
Rey

sollie

If you do come over some good soundfiles, do share if you don't mind , playing With making tbs soundfiles is fun.


Great looking engine btw

reyemmanuel

Hi Sollie,

Yes mate, sure will. Planning to make a thread with sound files (i.e., wav files) such Benedini users can build their own sounds.

I'm currently working on Leo AS1's MTU MB 838 CaM 500 V10.
I run my Leo 1 in WOT using Gnomefather's Engine Mod in various loads, engine run time etc whilst harvesting these in audacity.
So far, I've managed to isolate workable clips (i.e. noise removed, amplified and bass boosted).

If you have WOT account and have KV1 in tour garage, try the above pathway.

This early Tiger 1 really is hard to find. =)

sollie

I have wot yes, but no mods installed, will look into it, ore you could do it ;-)

I working on a panther at the moment, easy to find ok sound files on youtube on tha tank. But a little hard to edit out People speaking in the background though, working on it ..

( I know speed max must be Limited ;-) )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kchmMXYp4P8

rivetcounter

The only HL210 engine was blown by Bovington then replaced with a HL230 this is the only recording of a Tiger I available Thomas offers 2 versions that I know of one is a recording from a Panther the other is from the Bovington Tiger I with HL230, there are no known HL210 engines

wsn123

I have found four Benedini tbs sound projects with name "Tiger" in my archives

-all tree tbs files below have excately the same engine sound samples recorded from Bovington Tiger

TigBov.tbs
Tiger3.tbs
TigerBov2.tbs

The last file is available now on the Thomas website
http://www.benedini.de/Home_D/Download/download.html
Its placed under "November 2013" but the samples are the same as in previous versions

The fourth file

Tiger1.tbs

have Panther engine sound samples. Im not sure but It seems that some of them was taken from Technikmuseum Sinsheim Panther.

Panther Panzer im Technikmuseum Sinsheim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kakcaHFi26g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAZ1yK6k27Q

What engine type is inside this Panther (real engine or recorded engine sound only) I dont know.

P.S.
KingTig.tbs have similair engine samples as Tiger1.tbs

reyemmanuel

Hi rivetcounter,

Thanks, that ends the quest to grab some audio files. A pity to the HL 210, didn't have the chance to say no. I assume this is the one shown near Tiger 131 display area?

Hi WSN,

Thanks for the extra info on the panther. And yes, i agree to the info you shared. I have used the Tiger1.tbs file as it gives more bass and the acceleration revs are more pleasing than the Bovington tiger sound.

Ex_Pat_Tanker

The 210 from Bovie's Tiger was cut up for display before the war ended - it has only ever run with a 230 since restoration.
They only made about 250 Tigers with the 210 motor, and most (if not all) of them were lost in Tunisia and Russia in 1942/43. The ones that did make it back for overhaul had their engines replaced with the 230 (This was used as the precedent for Bovie to fit a 230 in theirs)

In all honesty I doubt they sounded much different. Both are 60 degree V12's of a similar capacity, and they used the same exhaust system. The would be some differences in the radiated noise from the engine, due to the 210 having an aluminium block and the 230 cast iron, but as they were mounted in a sealed engine compartment I doubt you'd ever tell the difference - Bovie's Tiger is surprisingly quiet at idle speed.

YHR

This is something I would like to point out as well, and I am happy to say the TBS has the ability to cater to this fact. For you guys playing with Benedini Files, set the cannon blast as the loudest clean sound you can, Base all the other sounds in relation to this. The turret rotation and bbl elevation should be relatively quiet compared to the cannon blast., and I set these at a volume similar to the idling, Acceleration and running I set the volume to be higher then idling

Start, Idling, deceleration, stop, turret rotation, barrel elevation are set 40%,
Acceleration and running set at 80%
Cannon and MG at 100%.

I then adjust the amp to give me the loudest cannon sound that is still clean.

For a cannon sound file that has the reload as part of the sound byte, I will go into audiocity, and drop the DB across that section of the sound file. The cutesy reload is OK once or twice, but after that you will know how unprototypical it is, and it needs to be quieted way down,

You guys are really playing to the strengths of the Benedini when you go down this road. You don't have to settle on any one file. You can constantly be improving them, which is what I have been doing since I was first exposed to this software/ hardware combination, and quite frankly is the primary reason I have moved to the TBS for sound generation over all else. Nobody and I mean nobody makes a system that is easier to edit and build sound files for.

sollie

Yhr, are you able to acces the .tbs files and also play With them ? ore are you talking about home made files ?

reyemmanuel

Hi Sollie,
Yes you can modify the tbs files. You load up the file (i.e., tiger1.tbs), then replace any of the sound clips with your own. Rename ths file and save as another file, say tiger1v2.tbs.

I usually replace the acceleration sound to something thats really bassy such that when revving up, it sounds good. The other sojnd clip i tinker is the moving sound, bh replacing with a much longer clip.

What YHR emphasised bout sound volume it to make gun n MG the priority, say setting them to 200. Turret rotation n gun elevation can be set to 50 whilst all other engine sound at 100. The acceleration sound i usually set to 200 too. I alsl like to set enhine speed to 50.

This way, sound is realistic compared to other systems where turret sounds are too loud.
All the flexibility menyioned above is best realised in the DBC3-Benedini.
Clark-Benedini is limited to the engine, n a vouple more sounds(i.e., i mix channels to play a separate turret roation sound as the tk22t1 is too "thonky"- my turret now rotates via a servoed motor).

PS. Don't forget to add the 15 watt amplifier too.
Once mine arrives, it be hooked to 2 tamiya kv1 speakers to provide the output for the DBC3-Benedini tandem.

YHR

200!! I have never tried going that high, Do you find much distortion creep in. My experience has been that at anything over 130 I start loosing quality, However volume = power, You want more volume you need more power. I stick to 7.2 volts to drive the amp just because it is easy, I did hook up a 3c lipo for 11 volts to the amp, and I can tell you things got even better, but it is the hassle of running another battery pack, so I just went back to 7.2 volts.,

wsn123

Thanks a lot, I also like the accelerate and running samples from Tiger1.tbs. Im using in my Tamiya KT Benedini TBS Mini with modified Tiger1.tbs sound file instead of original Tamiya MFC - sounding great . In addition big Visaton 4 inch bass speaker in box , 6W amplifier with 12V supply voltage improve the sound quality significanlty.

Sorry for the bad quality of recorded sound (poor microphone)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-BESpzW93g

YHR

How do you NOT play the Tamiya engine sound when you hook the TBS up. For the Clark it was easy as you just don't bother starting the clark up and the rest of the sound addresses stay open, On a Tamiya I am very interested in how you get the TBS working with the MFU

Also guys try inverting your speakers. The reverb has more punch to it, and you end up with better bass response. With the additional amp power you can make up for the loss of volume

Also for anyone who has heard these live and then heard them on you tube, you can attest that there is a fast difference in quality. This is true of not just the TBS but any system. Live they are that much better..

Cheers

YHR

You can play with the Benedini files and supplement the total tbs. file but you can't edit the actual individual sound bytes. For developers of sound files the TBS has that handy little feature the locks them up so they can't be edited. Piracy of sound files is rampant, and the TBS process allows any of us to build files, and then lock them up for only TBS use. ONce you save a file as a .tbs file your editing of that file is gone. So always ensure you keep your raw file as a .wav file for later. That file then becomes you intellectual property with all editing privileges and the .tbs file you share is public domain locked to tampering

wsn123

There is Benedini TBS Mini (+Elmod for running) only - I removed Tamiya MFC from my KT completely.
TBS mini is playing modified Tamiya engine sound samples (M1 start and M6 shutdown).

sollie

this tread is now flowing With info on the tbs, great. Thanks YHR and REY.

YHR

Oh OK, So there really are no Tamiya electronics left In this tank then. I thought you had found a way to utilize the Tamiya MFU and add the TBS as well. That would have been sweet, as then Tamiya guys could upgrade the sound on their tanks as well without getting rid of the proven and trusted Tamiya electronics.

There is no reason why a TBS won't work with the Tamiya for basic engine sounds, but it is when you want all the battle sounds etc it gets more difficult. I have a prototype TBS analog conversion board, that I think I will use with my Tamiya electronics, This board will take a negative pulse and trigger a particular Benedini TBS sound address. So if I map all the Tamiya electronics, in theory I could have the Tamiya electronics trigger all the Benedini sounds. You would unplug the speaker from the Tamiya MFU and just have the Benedini supply all the sounds keeping the Tamiya battle system and drive electronics.

This way Tamiya guys could redo their sounds as well, changing the engine, battle sound and cannon. Of course this would give them the flexibility to adjust the ratios of sounds to each other, giving a more realistic experience. I wonder how many Tamiya guys would be interested in that?

rivetcounter

What ex-pat says is partially correct the original engine was sectioned some years ago for display purposes when the Tiger was originally restored Bovington just happened to have a spare HL210 engine if you read the official report this is the engine Bovington seized and managed to bang a hole through the cylinder block, Bovington then used a spare HL230 engine which never run correct this was then rebuilt by the SdKfz Foundation using a different block as the original was warped this third block came from the Jagdtiger.

The first 250 Tigers were issued with HL210 engine but a number of Panther D (I don’t know the exact figure) were also issued with the HL210 engine, a number of Panther D served in Normandy during 1944, England recovered 80 Panther in various conditions ranging from totally destroyed to running condition for evaluation purposes I have no idea if any of these Panther D from Normandy had the original HL210 engines.

reyemmanuel

Sound realism n flexibility is the reason why i ditched the tamiya dmd and mfu from my tami tiger. Tamiya's engines sounds become "relatively crappy" once you've tried Benedini's (compare my tami n tunisia video to that of why i ditched tami electo). By selling the tami electronics n replacing with dbc3/clark benedini and using tami hull/turret/suspension/powertrain- ended up with more funds n a better sounding tank. This also allowed me to place 2x tami KV1 speakers.

Dan the speakers am using seem to handle the 200 quite well. No distortion as yet at half volume. This might distort if set to full without an amplifier. I have not yet set the volume to full as i have never got the chance at yet to tinker with the sound volume at home as it is quite loud.
I also orient the speakers downward facing the hull floor to enhance the the sound.

In the future, once i've mastered the dbc3 benedini tandem (setting the tbs to understand the dbc3 signals), i will be ditching tami's leo2 mfu and drivepack. This will enable the use of the better sounding leo2 tbs file than tami' recording. (my hobby engine leo2 with benedini sound is a testament tothis- see my utube vids n compare w tami leo2). By seling these, u can replace n tami with a better sounding engine, and enable the use of a better gyrofor gun stabilisation.

The above strategy seemingly becomes "tanking on a budget"- but you end up with better sounding, functional tank.

reyemmanuel

Seems there is light after all. I would have guessed as well that some of the panther would have used this engine, but not quite sure which model. So the D's is it after all-now on to research.

I WAS ACTUALLY HOPING THE TIGER1.TBS FILE THAT WAS TAKEN FROM A PANTHER WAS A 210 TRM P45.=)

As for the cast iron vs aluminium block-i would think that it might sound a bit different though. Ex
Pat tanker, is this possible that they'd sound quite differently? Both v12s, 60 deg, but the material is different.

The bovi tiger 131 also sounded quite differently from the tiger 2... so i reckoned the bovi tiger's engine could be different from the prod tiger 2's 230. It seems the former was using prototype tiger 2 v3's engine. The idling sound for tiger 131 sounds so diff from the kts.

rivetcounter

Tiger I, Tiger II and Panther D, A and G all used either the HL210 or the HL230 early Tiger I and Panther D used the HL210 later Tiger I all Tiger II and later Panther D, A and G all used the HL230
The difference between Tiger I and Tiger II along with Panther is the exhaust systems and air intake Tiger I had an exhaust with baffles whilst Panther and Tiger II didn’t hence the difference in sound, I personally think there would be a slight difference between the HL210 and the HL230 based on what Ex-pat has already stated along with a difference with valve timing and ignition timing and the air filter difference between the HL210 and the HL230.

Of all the preserved Panther there is only 1 known D in Holland model with a possibility of another in Switzerland both are none runners, the D model in Holland was restored cosmetically the engine and transmission was removed as payment by a private collector, most of the other preserved Panther are A models with running examples in France, Germany and England, I know Thomas recorded his Panther engines in Germany and France.

Tamiya recorded the Tiger II in France inside the museum this is why it sounds different to sound units from Thomas, it’s down to echo and the sound bouncing of walls if Tamiya had recorded the tank outside it would have sounded very different.

You are flogging a dead horse if you are chasing a recording from a HL210 engine the best you will get is either the Bovington Tiger or one of the Panther files.

sollie

Rivet, since we are talking about sound recordings , do you know what tamiya used for the kv/is soundset ?