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  1. #1

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    ACE/AAF Danville event Sept. 19-21 2014! Now with details and schedule.

    It is on fellow tankers!! Summer is coming to an end and it's time to fire up the tanks and get some serious battling done.
    Scenario details and schedule will come in the next week or two. We'll be running team building scenarios with a couple
    full blown Rolling Thunder campaigns and some button mashing team deathmatch in between.
    Don't forget to get your hotel reservations if need be, and we'll see you on the field.

    Stock tamiya apples with exception of fixed structured vehicles being TFA the entire weekend.
    No IFA.
    No regulations on shots: fan, lag, etc. If the stock tamiya system can do it, it's legal. We've found as a club that it's getting too hard
    to draw a clear line on how these types of shots are being defined.
    Brief tank inspection to make sure your tank takes hits, dies, and the emitter tube is of stock tamiya depth's (6mm ID, 9mm to front of IR bulb.)
    Last edited by TheBennyB; 09-02-2014 at 12:20 PM.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  2. #2

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    Bret, I will be there. Will is coming as well. Hope to arrive Fri around noon. Not sure if Joe is coming from Atlanta. I wish more folks were coming from the Deep South! No one here likes stock apple battles.

    Marty

  3. #3

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    Awesome Marty! Yea, it's hard to make everyone happy. Reguardless of apple preference I'd make it a point to
    come to the Musuem as the days may be numbered for the battlefield and it's always a good time no matter
    what's being run.
    Last edited by TheBennyB; 08-20-2014 at 11:26 AM.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  4. #4

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    I hate "Fan / Sweep Shots" Brett and find them entirely unrealistic and un-sports-man like. I understand you wish to allow them and it is your event...thank you in advance for hosting it. Please tell me that you will not allow the totally despicable act of the "Fake Fan Shot". For those who have never seen it.... it is a desperate act in which enemy tank fans you and PRETENDS to shoot your tank....but.... WITHOUT firing his IR. You think he has fired and when you try and return fire while he is reloading he fan shoots yet again just 1 or 2 seconds later....but now fires the IR. How low does one have to go to win??? I have not see this since we banned the fan shot years ago. Please tell me this despicable act will not be tolerated at this event. New tankers will be very unhappy and I will be very disappointed that we can't play like gentleman.
    Last edited by thecommander; 08-21-2014 at 02:42 AM.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by thecommander View Post
    I hate "Fan / Sweep Shots" Brett and find them entirely unrealistic and un-sports-man like. I understand you wish to allow them and it is your event...thank you in advance for hosting it. Please tell me that you will not allow the totally despicable act of the "Fake Fan Shot". For those who have never seen it.... it is a desperate act in which enemy tank fans you and PRETENDS to shoot your tank....but.... WITHOUT firing his IR. You think he has fired and when you try and return fire while he is reloading he fan shoots yet again just 1 or 2 seconds later....but now fires the IR. How low does one have to go to win??? I have not see this since we banned the fan shot years ago. Please tell me this despicable act will not be tolerated at this event. New tankers will be very unhappy and I will be very disappointed that we can't play like gentleman.
    Like I said Bob, if the tamiya electronics can do it, it's legal. That being said I wouldn't bet on seeing many fan shots or lag shot except for the old vet's using them on each other.
    Just don't see these shot used much anymore. The reason we're letting them be used is to make policing easier and avoid the constant argument of what a "fan" or "lag" shot
    is and if it was employed. If it's all legal no one can argue the implementation.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  6. #6
    heavyaslead's Avatar
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    Agree with Bob, we spent years trying to create a more realistic and fair gameplay.

    A bit of a setback, but maybe a spike in Fan Ban sales! LOL

    Still hoping Tamiya will come out with a TBS version 2 that will alleviate some of these issues.
    Cheers
    Eric Scott
    www.SEAD.us

  7. #7
    Green Amphibian's Avatar
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    I agree with the ban the fan group. I do not use it.

    Herman
    The older I get, the better I was.

    LVT 4, USMC M4 105mm, Stug III, DD Sherman & Hetzer building.

  8. #8
    YHR's Avatar
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    I understand the logistics point of this. Kind of like herding cats trying to get everyone on the same page, and then comes the enforcement side of things.

    However if you allow the fan then you should allow all the other things a commander can do to take advantage. I have never heard of this fake fan, but to me, it you are tolerating fan shots then the fake fan is a tactic to out wit your enemy. It is no more undesirable then the fan shot itself. You have the cannon flash to indicate a real shot has been fired so the fake fan can be identified by a real fan shot.

    Here is where the debate can really pick up. What is IR tank battling. Is it Lazer tag or battle simulation.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by YHR View Post
    I understand the logistics point of this. Kind of like herding cats trying to get everyone on the same page, and then comes the enforcement side of things.

    However if you allow the fan then you should allow all the other things a commander can do to take advantage. I have never heard of this fake fan, but to me, it you are tolerating fan shots then the fake fan is a tactic to out wit your enemy. It is no more undesirable then the fan shot itself. You have the cannon flash to indicate a real shot has been fired so the fake fan can be identified by a real fan shot.

    Here is where the debate can really pick up. What is IR tank battling. Is it Lazer tag or battle simulation.
    Dan,
    Your absolutely right. For me this is a laser tag system that happens to be mounted on a tank. Until there is a common system that all
    tankers use to resolve these issues I'll have this mind set.

    Also, lets not start hijacking this thread on battling type opinions. This is for promotion/details of the event.
    Thanks.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  10. #10
    YHR's Avatar
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    Fan shot or not I wish I could attend. I am sure you guys will have fun.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by YHR View Post
    I understand the logistics point of this. Kind of like herding cats trying to get everyone on the same page, and then comes the enforcement side of things.

    However if you allow the fan then you should allow all the other things a commander can do to take advantage. I have never heard of this fake fan, but to me, it you are tolerating fan shots then the fake fan is a tactic to out wit your enemy. It is no more undesirable then the fan shot itself. You have the cannon flash to indicate a real shot has been fired so the fake fan can be identified by a real fan shot.

    Here is where the debate can really pick up. What is IR tank battling. Is it Lazer tag or battle simulation.
    Well I am proud to say that we have been successfully "hearding cats" at Danville for several years now.

    Policing is something I seem to have a knack for. Ever since we made a gentleman's agreement to not use fans shots (This was after two veterans watching the battle complained to Wayne about why some of the tanks never had their guns straight and fire while jumping) at the November battles in 2011? We have had very few problems policing it...just a reminder or two every now and then. No arguments about it during events but certainly much discussion. Only one tanker chose not to return to Danville after we made our gentleman's agreement (no names, so don't ask) but I was getting many complaints from the newer and first time tankers that they were getting their clocks cleaned by the fan shot tankers. I bend over backwards to get guy to come to Danville and this is the number one problem that I hear from all of them.

    After the fan ban agreement I NEVER heard that complaint ever again....it has been almost 4 years of happy tankers....save one.

    JUST BCAUSE THERE IS A FLAW....DO WE HAVE TO EXPLOIT IT?

    As for seeing the fake fan shot..... you are very wrong. Have you even battled against it? The strobe is a very short flash and can be very hard to see particularly if there is no muzzle brake. Why do you think we require a gun flash?....So we can keep things fair and know when the enemy has fired. You certainly would know in a real tank battle? The fan shot short circuits that as well. This is Brett's event and once again I thank him for running it. He is a true gentleman who only uses the fan shot on those who use it on him. Please let not get away from behaving like gentleman and adopt a "anything goes" mentality. I know this is not the way Brett works.... but others will take unfair advantage and sour the game for the rest. All I ask is that we be fair and reasonable gentleman. I have every confidence that Brett's event will be.
    Last edited by thecommander; 08-21-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBennyB View Post
    Like I said Bob, if the tamiya electronics can do it, it's legal. That being said I wouldn't bet on seeing many fan shots or lag shot except for the old vet's using them on each other.
    Just don't see these shot used much anymore. The reason we're letting them be used is to make policing easier and avoid the constant argument of what a "fan" or "lag" shot
    is and if it was employed. If it's all legal no one can argue the implementation.
    The fan shots were stopped to keep things fair for all. We battled for years without it right? I run two events each year at Danville plus the NEAD events and policing them has never been an issue or difficult for me. The old guys can't control who they hit and miss when their tank spreads IR over 180+ degrees of the battlefield in one fan shot. Friendly fire issues certainly are higher with this tactic too. Some guys will argue over anything....all I am asking if to be fair and reasonable gentleman. We certainly have much happier and many more tankers since the gentleman agreement to stop the fan shot. I will be there in September and all should attend Brett's event and enjoy.
    Join us at NEAD: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/queenspanzergroup/
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  13. #13

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    Guys, don't let the rules or scenario's planned for the weekend make you hesitate on coming. Remember this may be the last battles at the greatest indoor
    battlefield in the world. Regardless of guidelines everyone is going to have a blast and though the old school "shots" are being allowed it doesn't mean your going to see
    it implemented at a high rate, just cuts down on squabbles and individual defining of said "shots" throughout the weekend. We're planning on running all kinds of scenarios
    that all experience level of tanker is really going to enjoy.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  14. #14

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    I can't deal with driving my tank with the barrel at the 45 degree and having to turn the hull in order to fire forward. I'm a TFA fan and will never go back. Driving around with the barrel pointed forward with TFA makes much more sense.
    Tamiya dropped the ball when they designed the pyramid configuration in the apple but at least they molded notches in the pyramid to allow for TFA conversion. It's not like Japan is known for a long history of tank warfare. Done beating this very dead horse.

  15. #15

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    Did you play with toy soldiers as a kid?
    Did you spend hours setting up battles in the sandbox with trenches, hedgerows, hills, and tunnels?
    Did you set up an attacking and defending force and then play out the battle in real time?
    Did you make verbal sound effects while throwing dirt in the air for explosions?
    I know I did.
    Danville is the realization of those childhood fantasies.
    It is a unique place, and if you have never been, you are missing out.
    If you choose not to come because of this rule or that rule, you are missing out.

    I come to ALL the battles whenever I can, REGARDLESS of which rules are being played.
    There is another active thread with the discussion of playing styles and rules.

  16. #16

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    I played with barbie dolls and with my sisters friends.

  17. #17
    MAUS45's Avatar
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    LOL at this, SGTMAJMVJ!!!! Hope your sisters friends were cute!!!
    Tamiya Tiger I, Tiger II, Panther G, 3 HL Stug III G, 1 HL Panzer III M, 1 HL Jagdpanzer IV L/70, 1 R/C Armory 1/8 Tiger II

  18. #18

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    Sorry for no updates tankers. Details and schedule will be up in the next couple days. Looking forward to seeing old and new faces and what coiuld be one of the last battle weekends
    at the AAF tank museum. If you haven't reserved you hotel room yet, get on it if need be!
    AAF # 111284-25
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  19. #19
    Green Amphibian's Avatar
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    I got mine today at Innkeeper.

    Herman
    The older I get, the better I was.

    LVT 4, USMC M4 105mm, Stug III, DD Sherman & Hetzer building.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBennyB View Post
    Sorry for no updates tankers. Details and schedule will be up in the next couple days. Looking forward to seeing old and new faces and what coiuld be one of the last battle weekends
    at the AAF tank museum. If you haven't reserved you hotel room yet, get on it if need be!
    Brett is right guys. Who knows how long the AAF Tank Museum will be there. DO NOT HESITATE. Come in a few weeks and have a great time.
    Join us at NEAD: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/queenspanzergroup/
    He who ends up with the most toys wins!!!

  21. #21

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    I have a JUMBO almost done. Ok, OK, It's my wifes tank but it is almost done. Although a year later than expected.
    That said. I'll be coming down for this one. I'll have the army of Troy as support.
    Troy

  22. #22

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    Ok fellow tankers, here's the schedule and what we're going to run.

    -ACE/AAF SEP 2014
    BATTLEDAY EVENT-

    AAF Museum, Danville, Virginia, September 19th, 20th, and 21st 2014

    September 19, 2014
    FRIDAY


    10am a)-Museum opened for battle participants
    b)-Inspections and registration begins (conducted all day)-Bret and Doug
    (Vehicles will be inspected in stock-orientation for all vehicles with the exception of
    fixed-structured vehicles which will be in TFA-orientation.
    All battles will be Tamiya stock-orientation for battle units with the
    exception of fixed-structured vehicles which are in TFA-orientation.
    There is no IFA-orientation allowed for any battle.
    c)-Participants who have been inspected and registered may
    operate on the battlefield

    10-11:30am General Battles-Period reserved for battles that are simple and fast to set up (e.g. 4 on 4, zone 1 vs zone 5, etc) and can be organized by anyone.

    12:00 Briefs
    a)-Event Brief –Doug
    b)-Types of Battles Brief- Bret Benson
    c)-Dave Brodeur will be organizing the teams for Animal Hunts and RT battles.

    12:00-2:30pm ANIMAL HUNTS-Jake
    -Rabbit with a Gun
    -Wolves with Guns
    -Sharks
    .
    2:30-7:00pm RT-orientation and battling-Jake
    A few minutes to get available participants up to speed and basic RT-level battling
    -Walk-thru
    -RT-basic level (no mine fields, artillery strikes, etc)
    -RT-Full Tilt

    7:00-8:30pm General Battles-Period reserved for battles that are simple and fast to set up (e.g. 4 on 4, zone 1 vs zone 5, etc) and can be organized by anyone.

    8:30-9pm Conduct battlefield maintenance- clean areas of responsibilities and ensure they are inspected by a museum representative.-Tony

    9:00 Dinner Meet
    Sep 20, 2014
    SATURDAY


    9am Musuem open for participants and public

    9-11am a)-Inspections and registration begins (conducted all day)-Bret and Doug
    (Vehicles will be inspected in stock-orientation for all vehicles with the exception of
    fixed-structured vehicles which will be in TFA-orientation.)
    All battles will be Tamiya stock-orientation for battle units with the
    exception of fixed-structured vehicles which are in TFA-orientation.
    There is no IFA-orientation allowed for any battle.

    b)-Participants who have been inspected and registered may
    operate on the battlefield
    c)-Participants who have been inspected and registered may
    operate on the battlefield

    9:30-9:45am Briefs
    a)-Event Brief –Doug
    b)-Types of Battles Brief- Bret Benson
    c)-Dave Brodeur will be organizing the teams for Animal Hunts and RT battles.

    9:45-11:45am General Battles-Period reserved for battles that are simple and fast to set up (e.g. 4 on 4, zone 1 vs zone 5, etc) and can be organized by anyone.

    12:00-2:30pm ANIMAL HUNTS-Jake
    -Rabbit with a Gun
    -Wolves with Guns
    -Sharks

    2:30-7:00pm RT-orientation and battling-Jake
    Nuts And bolts walk-thru in order to get the remaining people who weren’t present
    Friday up to speed
    -Walk-thru

    3:00-4:00pm RT-Level Campaign Battle #1-Jake

    4:00-5:00pm RT-Level Campaign Battle #2-Jake

    5:00-6:00pm RT-Level Campaign Battle #3-Jake

    6:00-7:00pm RT-Level Campaign Battle #4-Jake

    7:00-8:30pm General Battles-Period reserved for battles that are simple and fast to set up (e.g. 4 on 4,
    zone 1 vs zone 5, etc) and can be organized by anyone.

    8:30-9pm Conduct battlefield maintenance- clean areas of responsibilities and ensure they are inspected by a museum representative.-Tony

    9pm Dinner Meet



    Sep 21, 2014
    SUNDAY


    9:00 Museum opened for battle participants

    9:00-2:30am General Battles-Period reserved for battles that are simple and fast to set up (e.g. 4 on 4,
    zone 1 vs zone 5, etc) and can be organized by anyone.

    2:30-3pm Cleanup and Battleday Over-Doug

    Notes for the event:
    (1)-There are NO LUNCHES scheduled during the duration of the event. Eat
    before coming, and/or bring something to snack on.
    (2)- All battles will be Tamiya stock-orientation for battle units with the
    exception of fixed-structured vehicles which are in TFA-orientation.
    There is no IFA-orientation allowed for any battle.
    (3)-Anyone not familiar with driving their vehicles on/off a vehicle transported see
    Willy Loewer for direction -prior to the commencement of battles or in-
    between.
    (4)-All battles, unless otherwise stated are AXIS vs ALLIES. If needed to balance
    numbers, tape, stickers, or other such markers are to be utilized in establishing
    a ‘captured vehicle’.
    (5)-Access across rivers WILL ONLY BE ACROSS BRIDGES.
    (6)-The battlefield for this battleday is comprised of 8 ZONES. Doug has placed new markers
    designating each one. These will be utilized for the entire battleday.
    (7)-Rules for the combat train are: whoever owns zone 4 owns the train; train can
    go into zones regardless of mines or occupation status

    Jake
    Doug Gasser
    Bret Bensen
    Willy Loewer
    Tony Land
    Dave Brodeur

    Rolling Thunder Animal Hunts
    (Team Engagements of a Smaller Nature)
    Preface
    The purpose of the following mini-battles is to provide exercises on a smaller scale than a full-blown RT-sized battle, but at the same time provide key elements to advance the abilities of combatants. These are also quick and lighter, so don’t take as much to prepare, get everyone up to speed, and then conduct. The results will be operators that aren’t so overwhelmed when given larger combined tasks. There are two forms of the same exercise, one ‘Without a Gun’ and one ‘With a Gun’. This simply means that one (the former) is conducted without fire-support for the ‘bait’ tank(s), and the latter means that the exercise is conducted with fire support for the ‘bait’. Fire-support is fixed and cannot move from its position, and cannot be shot at. This provides a level of stress and teaches the team going through the exercise to conduct their efforts while under fire.

    Scoring
    Leadership
    A bonus point (1) is given to the team whose PL provides adequate direction with the ‘Rabbit’ exercises, and (1) bonus point given to the team whose CO provides adequate, plus (1) point each to the PL’s who provides adequate direction during ‘Wolves’ or higher level exercises. Awarding is per the monitor. During ‘Sharks’, the goal is for fastest time.
    Kills
    Points are only awarded to the team giving chase, and its (1) point per kill; however, each team member that is killed will deduct (1) point from team’s score. A platoon leader that is killed will deduct (2) points from a team’s score, and a CO that is killed will deduct (3) points from a team’s score. If time is expired, each remaining tank enemy tank will be deducted from team’s score (final score may be a negative number).
    Fastest Time Per Exercise
    The team that has the fastest time while destroying all the enemy being chased per exercise receives an additional point (1).
    Stationing Participants
    The participants should be stationed in their representative zones. The participants running the next exercise should be stationed ‘on deck’ adjacent to their entrance zones in order to rapidly commence the next battle.

    Rabbit Without a Gun

    Time: 10-minutes

    Comprised Of:
    -Platoon Leader (PL) with two members (Total 3 tanks)
    -Rabbit (1 tank)




    Goal
    Goal is for PL to actively direct the two team members to knock out the rabbit within given timeframe (10 min). The rabbit wins by killing opponents or by surviving by running out the clock.

    Conduct
    Rabbit with a gun/without a gun are conducted on the side of the river within zones 5-8. Rabbit is pre-staged in zone 6 and platoon starts in zone 8(corner). TBU-stock only, except on fixed-structured vehicle. Rabbit cannot be a fixed-structured vehicle, and only one fixed-structured vehicle allowed on platoon side.

    Points awarded: See ‘Scoring’ above
    Points:
    (1) For Rabbit KO
    (1) Deducted for each team member KO
    (2) Deducted for PL KO
    (1) For fastest platoon time

    Rabbit With a Gun

    Time: 10-minutes

    Comprised Of:
    -Platoon Leader with two members (total 3 tanks)
    -Rabbit (1 tank)
    -Rabbit’s Fire Support (selected medium rate of fire) stationed on bridge on zone 2 (1 tank). (Fire Support cannot move and can’t be shot at)

    Goal
    Goal is for PL to actively direct the two team members to knock out the rabbit within given timeframe (10 min) WHILE UNDER FIRE FROM FIRE-SUPPORT FROM BRIDGE. The rabbit wins by killing opponents or by surviving by running out the clock.
    Conduct
    Rabbit with a gun/without a gun are conducted on the side of the river within zones 5-8. Rabbit is pre-staged in zone 6 and platoon starts in zone 8(corner). TBU-stock only, except on fixed-structured vehicle. Rabbit cannot be a fixed-structured vehicle, and only one fixed-structured vehicle allowed on platoon side. Vehicle for Rabbit’s fire-support will be vehicle selected as a medium (for rate of fire).






    Points awarded: See ‘Scoring’ above
    Points:
    (1) For Rabbit KO
    (1) Deducted for each team member KO
    (2) Deducted for PL KO
    (1) For fastest platoon time

    Wolves Without Guns

    Time: 15-minutes

    Comprised Of:
    -1 CO with 2 platoons comprised of one PL each, and two platoon members per platoon (total 7 members).
    -Two Wolves

    Goal
    Goal is for the CO with two platoons to actively direct the platoon leaders and platoon leaders will direct their respective team members in order to knock out the two wolves within a given timeframe (15min). The wolves in turn can win by killing the CO, platoon leaders, and team members or by surviving by running out the clock.

    Conduct
    Wolves with a gun/without a gun are conducted with the CO having one platoon staged in zone 1 and the other in zone 8. Wolves will be in zones 3 and 6. Vehicles for Wolves fire-support (for with guns) will be vehicles selected as a medium (for rate of fire). TBU-stock only, except on fixed-structured vehicle. Wolves can have one fixed-structured vehicle, and only two fixed-structured vehicles allowed on platoon side.

    Points awarded: See ‘Scoring’ above
    Points:
    (1) For each Wolf KO
    (1) Deducted for each team member KO
    (2) Deducted for PL KO
    (3) Deducted for CO KO
    (1) For fastest CO time




    Wolves With Guns

    Time: 15-minutes

    Comprised Of:
    -1 CO with 2 platoons comprised of one PL each, and two platoon members per platoon (total 7 members).
    -Two Wolves (2)
    -Two Wolves (2) Fire Support (selected medium rate of fire) stationed on two bridges: One on bridge in zone 2 (1 tank), and one on bridge in zone 4 (1 tank). (Fire Support cannot move and can’t be shot at)

    Goal
    Goal is for the CO with two platoons to actively direct the platoon leaders and platoon leaders will direct their respective team members in order to knock out the two wolves within a given timeframe (15min) WHILE UNDER FIRE FROM FIRE-SUPPORT FROM TWO SEPARATE BRIDGES. The wolves in turn can win by killing the CO, platoon leaders, and team members or by surviving by running out the clock.

    Conduct
    Wolves with a gun/without a gun are conducted with the CO having one platoon staged in zone 1 and the other in zone 8. Wolves will be in zones 3 and 6. Vehicles for Wolves fire-support (for with guns) will be vehicles selected as a medium (for rate of fire). TBU-stock only, except on fixed-structured vehicle. Wolves can have one fixed-structured vehicle, and only two fixed-structured vehicles allowed on platoon side.

    Points awarded: See ‘Scoring’ above
    Points:
    (1) For each Wolf KO
    (1) Deducted for each team member KO
    (2) Deducted for PL KO
    (3) Deducted for CO KO
    (1) For fastest CO time

    Sharks

    Time: 10-minutes

    Comprised Of:
    PL and two members (total 3)
    -Three sharks (3)

    Goal
    To direct and maneuver platoon to kill 3 separate tanks in 3 separate scenarios.

    Conduct
    The platoon will all enter from zone 8. 3 tanks will be positioned in 3 non-supporting areas of the battlefield. The first will be in zone 7 in an ‘open’ area and is limited to operating in this zone. The second will be within the town in zone one and limited to operating in zones 1 and 2, and the third will be on the bridge in zone 4 and can operate within zone 4. The platoon will attack in the same order: tank in zone 7; tank in the town of zone 1; and the tank on the bridge in zone 4.

    Points awarded:
    This exercise is solely for recorded time. Fastest platoon wins, but has to be below 10 minutes.
    Last edited by TheBennyB; 09-03-2014 at 07:02 AM.
    AAF # 111284-25
    A.C.E. member

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    307
    The battle scenarios looks great Bret!
    And I agree with your approach to the rules about fan shots. Best way to handle it.

    Looking forward to one more event at Danville!
    Last edited by Dana Lowell; 09-03-2014 at 10:46 AM.
    Mr Dana Lowell
    CO: H*E*A*T
    Scale armor: 1969-
    Member #1814 in MVPA: 1977-
    Volunteer at AAF Tank Museum: 2003-

  24. #24

    Join Date
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    I will be rolling in sometime friday.

    mike

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Only 2 weeks to go Tankers!! Here's a quick overview of the Rolling Thunder campaign we'll be running on Saturday. You'll notice a couple things crossed out that
    we've changed for this event, mainly time limit on how long it takes to clear a bridge or minefield is now down to 2 min. Also CO's will only have 1 arty strike per battle.
    We'll have a drivers briefing before hand as well.


    RT (Rolling Thunder) -Level Campaign Battles
    Overview 2.0
    I’m going to try to explain this as easily as possible. Understand that most people can’t understand the written text, or when talking one on one, so they need drawings or demos to fully comprehend the full scope of what you’re asking of them to execute. Normally at Danville, participants only conduct coordinated battles on a tank platoon (approximately 4 members each) level. They receive little direction other than ‘there’s the enemy, go get ‘em’. With RT-Level Campaign Battling, participants are operating on a tank company level. Not only are the combating elements involved in the battle bringing about the team’s victories, but to a large degree, so are the supporting elements. This vastly increases the involvement of all the participants, while increasing the level of excitement of each battle. At the museum, smaller practice runs beforehand, along with a brief, and a walk-thru demo will get everyone up to speed in a short amount of time with a minimum of confusion.
    What Is RT-Level Campaign Battling?
    RT-Level Campaign Battling is a vastly more in-depth way to conduct battles. More in-depth by time, complexity, the organization of participants, and manipulations of an inter-locking battlefield. The two battling teams are composed of a tank company size, with both combating and supporting elements.
    It begins with a battlefield that inter-connects to other battlefields through sequential battles. Simply, one team will enter, conduct a battle, and reach a designated exit. From there, the team will enter a new field, but in enemy territory, mostly in enemy hands, and will have to orchestrate a victory with the new parameters laid before them…or not.
    The opponent teams are of either axis or allied teams. They are the size and structure of a fluctuating tank company. The tank company has: a CO, a XO, platoon leader(s), platoon member(s), and supporting units comprised of logistical, bridge repairing, mine-clearing, and artillery units. The CO and XO for each team will have on a colored vest or other distinguishing item that will immediately be recognizable to members of his team or the opponent’s team. Each of the team’s components has responsibilities in their conduct of the battle and each directly affects the battle, sometimes dramatically. Kills are made not only by tank-on-tank warfare, but by artillery strikes, minefields, and lack of fuel (logistical support). Air strikes are conducted at times to limit certain avenues (knocking out bridges) of the battlefield while the battle is being conducted. The supporting units are made up of trucks that recover certain tanks that have been knocked out through enemy action. As the trucks are representative of the logistical value of the company, the trucks also represent the operating limitations regarding fuel, for bridge repair, and clearing minefields. TBU orientation is stock, with the exception of fixed-structured vehicles. There are not any IFA capabilities for any vehicle. The number of fixed structured vehicles must be controlled, so there’s not an unfair advantage for one side. This can be controlled by using ‘captured’ vehicles. NO MORE THAN A QUARTER OF A TEAM’S FORCE CAN BE FIXED-STRUCTURED VEHICLES.
    RT-Level Campaign Battling Defined
    The Battlefield
    The battlefield comprises 8 zones. The axis and allies start on a given battlefield on their respective sides of a DMZ line, then after the initial battle, the winner advances to the next sequential battlefield in the enemy’s sector. All of the battlefield, with the exception of the initial zone for the advancing unit will be in enemy hands. This can be manipulated if needs arise to an additional zone, as all zones are not equal. Advancing into the enemy’s sector makes conditions and circumstances increasingly harder for the advancing team, as they would be in real life. Some of these things are decreased accesses (disabled bridges) and established minefields that limit the aggressor and assist the defender. Where the team enters a battlefield is where their support unit operates the company’s repair facilities. It is also where the truck must return to have either its repair flag, or mine-clearing flag installed and removed by the XO. The flags are not inter-changeable. During some battles, air strikes will be utilized at timed intervals to reduce bridge accesses to areas of the battlefield. Minefields will also be established before a battle, and at timed sequences during a battle. Again, both of these issues can be corrected by utilizing the respective truck. Each team will enter a given battlefield at a certain location and exit from a certain location which will be given to each team’s CO at the battle brief. Battle briefs will be conducted immediately AFTER the battle is concluded. While the CO is getting his brief, the XO along with the platoon leaders should be getting their team ready for the next battle. Once the CO has received the brief, he needs to formulate a plan and issue it to the team. The interval between battles is about 20-30 minutes to give each team the necessary preparation time. At no time will accesses such as bridges be allowed to be blocked by team players (dead tank). A number of bridges will be knocked out prior to the battle, or during the battle by the battle organizers.
    The Team (Tank Company)
    The individual opponent teams for each side comprise a tank company. They have a CO, XO, platoon leaders, platoon members, and a support detachment. A truck represents the visual part of the support detachment, comprising the aspects of a recovery unit, bridge repair, and mine clearing capabilities, with each being able to be used, but not at the same time. Additionally, an unseen part of the support detachment is the artillery supporting unit for the tank company, but while the truck and its individual aspects are under the control of the XO, the artillery unit is under the direct guidance of the CO.
    The battle is planned and led by the CO, and this direction is carried out by his individual company components (XO, platoons, etc). The platoon leaders direct their platoons in accomplishing the tasks that the CO has given them prior to the battle starting, and should be giving them updated directions as the course of the battle moves along. Teams should start and end with the same members throughout these battle sets. While some members may come and go from the museum, the ones that are involved should be on one given team. The battling will be enhanced this way, as the team will start working out its quirks and establish standardized practices. The biggest routine failures on the battlefield are from teams that fail to work together, and the two major faults are: participants only combating as individuals; and changing out key leadership positions. Battles will be rough at first as both leaders and the team members learn how to organize and operate. During subsequent battles, it becomes readily apparent who is learning and adapting, and who is crashing and dying. Each battle will be tougher than the first, and the results of learning and adapting become more evident to those that are working together.
    The CO
    The CO is the head of the tank company. After receiving the details for the upcoming battle, he first plans how he wants the team to execute the battle, and gives further directions while the battle is going on as needed. He is also in charge of directing the artillery strikes, and will be able to call a single strike against one enemy tank per battle . Being the team CO is difficult as there are many things that they have to manage, just as in a real battle, you have to manage the battle, as well as your team’s assets, but he has a lot of help in conducting the battle, and a good CO uses his leadership assets to free up his own time in order to put more thought into the battle. The CO should only be giving orders to the platoon leader(s), and let the platoon leaders figure out their part of the mission. The CO will direct the XO where he wants the XO and support units to operate. Prior to a battle, the CO is responsible for getting his team out on the field on time. He does this by ensuring that all leaders are getting their people moving and on track. The CO cannot be killed by an artillery strike.
    The XO
    The XO should be with the CO when he receives his information on the upcoming battle. Because if the CO gets put out of action, the XO takes his place (the 1st platoon leader should then become the XO). The XO is in charge of directing vehicle recovery, minefield clearing, and bridge repair. He’s also in charge of fuel support, ensuring that the support vehicle has entered a new zone that the team has advanced in within 2 minutes (for more on this see ‘support unit’). Ensuring that the support vehicle has entered into a newly entered zone within 2 minutes is the number one priority for the XO, as not doing so eliminates from battle all operating units into and who have gone past that zone. The second priority for the XO is keeping abreast over who’s been knocked out, and what the priority is for recovering vehicles. The priority for recovery is not the same as in fluff battles, with RT-Level Campaign Battling it’s what tank or tank’s aspect is needed the most. This direction may come from what the CO orders, but if not, he makes his own order of recoveries. Additionally, the whole team is not recoverable, only a portion. A ratio of 1 recovery per every 3 tanks will be used. If a team has 4-6 tanks, it would get another recovery and so on (example a team has 8 tanks, they get 3 recoveries). The support vehicle also may be utilized as a mine clearing unit. To clear a zone, the support vehicle must return to the depot (depot is where the unit entered the battle) receive and place the correct flag for mine-clearing on his vehicle from the XO, then proceed to the zone to be cleared of mines. He must park adjacent to the zone (not within) and declare to all in a loud voice ‘mine-clearing’. When the 2 minutes have expired he is to declare in a loud voice ‘mine clearing complete’. He then proceeds back to the depot to deliver his flag to the XO. The same applies when repairing a bridge, the operator of the support vehicle goes to the depot and receives the correct flag from the XO then proceeds to the applicable bridge, and parks at or on it. He then declares in a loud voice ‘Bridge repair’ and waits 2 minutes. Once the 2 minutes have expired, he announces ‘bridge repair completed’ and returns his flag to the XO in the depot. The support vehicle must never have on the wrong flag, or doing any other operation when flagged. The support vehicle may conduct fuel support and vehicle recovery (or carrying vehicle) at the same time, but must be within the effective zone. The XO cannot be killed by an artillery strike.
    In case recovery trucks are not available, and for the sake of game play, the XO can act in place of the support vehicle truck. He will personally guide the knocked out tank back to the depot, keeping abreast, or leading the knocked out tank, then return (the knocked out tank of course returns on its own). This applies the same to bridge repair and mine-clearing.
    The Platoon Leader and Platoon Members
    The platoon leader gets his direction from the CO and then directs his platoon in carrying the directions out. The platoon may only have two members, the platoon leader and another, or it may have up to 4 members. This was how it was in reality, and it is how you ‘flesh out’ a team no matter how many people show up. Sometimes you’ll only have enough for 4 platoon members, and at other times more. So instead of having one platoon of 4, it would be better to have two platoons of two members. It’s vastly better to have more platoons, than everyone bunched into one or two groups. To lead the unit, it’s much easier for platoon leaders to be behind and directing their team members. This oversight is needed to give adequate direction as the battle unfolds. A platoon leader that is solely engaging the enemy, and not directing his platoon and their efforts is swiftly destroying his team. The platoon leaders are the CO’s hammers.
    Support Unit
    The support unit represented by a truck, is the recovery unit, recovering disabled tanks, it is the mine-clearing unit, clearing mined zones so that the tank company may advance in a desired direction; It is the bridge repair unit that repairs a bridge in order to get the tank company across a river; It is the fuel and logistical representation of the tank company, advancing into a zone that has been newly advanced in within 2 minutes of the first vehicle entering into the zone in order to logistically support the tank company.
    The team’s XO is in charge of this support unit, and directs the operator of the truck to conduct either tank recovery, bridge repair, mine-clearing, or logistically support the advance (within 3 minutes). Acting as the recovery truck, the recovery truck takes the tank back to the repair facility (depot) which is always located where the team entered the battle. A ratio of 1 recovery per every 3 tanks will be used (this same ratio is used for the total number of artillery strikes). If a team has 4-6 tanks, it would get another recovery and so on (example a team has 8 tanks, they get 3 recoveries). The support truck CAN BE CAPTURED. The support truck can only go into a zone while there are friendly tanks in the zone. So if it is acting as a recovery truck, logistical fuel support, bridge repair, or mine-clearing, it has to be supported by friendly units. If all the friendly tanks in the zone are knocked out while the support truck is present in that zone, and if there is an enemy vehicle present the support truck is captured. The enemy vehicle has to get between the support truck and its direct path to its repair facility and yell out ‘captured’ to make it abundantly clear to all that it is captured. Additionally, if a support truck advances into a zone where no friendly vehicles are present and only enemy tanks, the support truck could be captured. The Capture of a recovery unit lasts for the duration of that specific battle, and the team that captured the recovery truck receives the new value of recoveries that the team had with their recovery truck, so if the team had 2 recoveries, the vehicle will receive a renewal for 2 vehicles. The captured truck can also act as logistical fuel, bridge repair, and mine-clearing as well.
    For clarity, vehicles can be recovered for anything including an artillery strike, which means if they are disabled due to not having a logistical fuel truck enter their zone within 2 minutes, they can be recovered for this. If a tank is disabled in a minefield, he can still fight until knocked out by fire, he just cannot move until the mine field is cleared, and then he must be recovered by a recovery vehicle.
    A Basic Example of a Battle’s Execution
    The CO will receive the battle information from the person creating the battle, and he will then formulate a plan. That plan he will then deliver to his team with orders specifically going to the platoon leaders and XO. Below is an example of the battlefield. Notice that it is now comprised of 8 zones.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/BRETBE~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]
    This 2nd drawing illustrates how the two forces will start out the battle, with one opponent north of the river (helicopter side), and the other south of it. The river serves as the initial DMZ line for the initial battle only. For all other battles, one opponent (who lost the previous battle) will own most of the battlefield, while the other opponent (who won the last battle) will be entering. For the purpose of these drawings, green are the allies and blue are the axis.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/BRETBE~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image004.jpg[/IMG]
    The third drawing below illustrates the beginning of a battle AFTER the initial battle. Here, the allies have lost, so they own most of the field (since the axis is advancing into allied territory) except a sizeable initial zone to enter into. Note that the battle starts with zones 6 and 7 already mined, and the bridges in zones 3 and 4 wrecked. The 3 axis platoons are entering zone 5, and the support unit is heading to the border of zone 6 to conduct mine-clearing. The orders to the axis are to enter into zone 5, destroy the enemy, and exit from zone 1, while the orders to the allies are to occupy zones 1-4, and 8. Both sides are informed of initial mined zones, and bridges wrecked. Sometimes mined zones or a wrecked bridge will happen at a certain time during the battle. Both CO’s will be given these details.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/BRETBE~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image006.jpg[/IMG]

    Notes for the CO
    After receiving his orders, the CO needs to make a battle plan. He has a number of platoons that are lead by a platoon leader, and a supporting element that is lead by the XO. The CO needs to administer the battle and not get actively involved in the battle unless necessary. This is why the orders he gives his platoon leaders are very important, for it is they who are to figure out their individual missions. The XO is told where the CO is going to need support, so the XO has his own 3-ring circus going with controlling where the support vehicle is supposed to be. If the support vehicle hasn’t entered a newly conquered zone within 2 minutes, the tanks within that zone are put out of action; if a vehicle needs recovery, the support vehicle must be directed to do so, if a direction of attack must be made through a mined zone, he must be there to direct the support vehicle to do that, and same with restoring a bridges access. So the CO doesn’t have to do all the actions of a team, he has the people with the tools necessary to complete the tasks at hand, but sometimes he has to be there to ensure that they are being done, or give further direction when battle plans change (and any great battle always does).
    The CO’s orders to his platoon leaders should let the platoon leaders know; where they’ll start and where they’ll need to end up at the end of the battle. Some platoons will at times be giving only fire-support to another unit that is advancing to gain an advantage. Platoons should always be working together. The XO should know the initial tasks for the support unit to undertake, then check with the CO periodically for updated mission tasking.
    The success and failure of a team will always be who can execute correctly a decent plan. The best plan poorly executed is the same as no plan at all with both being failures.
    Other Notes
    (1) Bridges-At no time will a bridge be intentionally blocked by a vehicle. If a vehicle dies on a bridge, it must be removed. Access across rivers can ONLY be done across bridges. This is all part of the designed battle conditions for each battle.
    (2) During the battleday event both ‘spin-shooting’ and ‘shot-delays’ (or ‘lag-shooting’) are allowed. This will be in effect for all battles.
    (3) There will be colored jackets to show who are the CO’s and XO’s for each team.
    (4) Immediately after the battle there will be a CO’s brief (for the first battle, it will be about 20 minutes prior to battle start time) it will be 20 minutes for both forces to be staged on the field. The defenders will be able to occupy all their zones at any time after the previous battle ended and prior to battle start. The attackers will need to be staged at the zone they will be entering. At time-20 the battle will be announced to start. There will be no vehicle checks, no asking if participants are ready. Each CO and the members of his team control that.
    (5) Disabled tanks cannot shoot (minefield, lack of fuel support,etc)
    (6) Tanks KO’d via an artillery strike can be recovered.
    Last edited by TheBennyB; 09-05-2014 at 07:04 AM.
    AAF # 111284-25
    A.C.E. member


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