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  1. #51
    Green Amphibian's Avatar
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    I don't think you will leave Danville very disappointed. Even if we do not all like the style of play being used in the battle going on, it is still fun. The interaction of the people is great, and meeting new people too. I have taken a tank out to an open area of the museum for someone (mostly kids) to drive more than once. There is a lot more to a battle weekend than just the battles, and that keeps me interested.

    Herman
    The older I get, the better I was.

    LVT 4, USMC M4 105mm, Stug III, DD Sherman & Hetzer building.

  2. #52
    ausf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxu52 View Post
    I'm one of those newbies. Been to one battle and still have tons to learn, but I have been into static for over 45 years. You guys are raising some real concerns for me. I heard the hobby referred to as a "game". Is that how most of you look at it? Like just a different form of pacman? And what's this in the videos where everyone is driving around with the turret cocked to one side and they rarely move it? That looks pretty bad to these old eyes. I was hoping for realistic scale equipment operated in a realistic manner in a competition (I know differentiating between "competition" and "game" is splitting hairs, but I think most of you will understand) that requires tactics, strategy and teamwork to achieve victory. Am I in the wrong hobby? Should I just stick with airsoft and the taigen IR system? Tamiya stuff can get expensive, am I just setting myself up for disappointment when I finally make it to Danville?
    You're exactly where I am, only I've had a head start on you with the RC. I have the equivalent of a small library on WWII armor, battle and unit histories. It's a collection I've amassed over 15 years or so and include out of print stuff worth serious cash. Making the vehicle the most realistic and historically correct as I possibly can will always be my first priority.

    With battles in my backyard with my sons, we approach the same way, as realistic as possible. Two mediums working together to dislodge a Tiger from a building, etc. The way I set up my tanks, I have a distinct disadvantage when I battle with a group because the emitters are scrimmed down for a narrow beam. That said, I've always had fun regardless and I bet a trip to Danville would be that times ten.

    I think the flavor of some of the comments are coming off harsher than intended, I doubt you'd have trouble. The guys at NEAD are nothing but laid back gentlemen, welcoming to a fault. I think the other groups would be just as fun.

    The one thing I'm surprised by is the comments regarding this being discussed to death. I've been here a reasonable amount of time and I never even heard of fake fan shots or lag shots. I've heard of fan shots but never saw one and understood they were a big no-no (or at least thought they were). I may be naive, but this is the first I've come across anyone even saying they use fans. This reason I started this thread was I was taken aback by Bob's comments regarding the fake shots. In my opinion, Bob is the number one ambassador of RC tanking. If something led him to speak out in a negative way, I wanted to know what it was.

    Again, I apologize if this thread cast dispersions or doubt on Danville, just by hearing all the help new tankers and kids get over the years, I can't see anyone having a bad time there.

    There's a newer guy here that came to my house a few times to pick up some stuff and we've had great conversations, but when he asked me how do you think we'll do at the next battle day, I told him "you kidding? We're going get creamed" to which he responded, "Yeah but we're going to be laughing the whole time".
    What, me worry?

  3. #53

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    A lot of people are saying they want more "realistic" or "historical" battles. I find this to be on the contrary. People think they want realistic battling but when we've run our Rolling Thunder campaign scenario's that put stresses on operator's such as fuel limits, artillery strikes, bridge and mine clearing, and chains of command with logistical support, and then oh yea complete an
    objective, we get ALOT of feedback that it's too complicated and takes too much time. For the most part I feel people still want a fast paced "game" not a simulation. We'll see what kind of feedback we get after our Sept event at Danville and report. I'm for both sides of the coin. I have patience to wait out an enemy tank for an hour or bum rush the whole team while doing a "death blossom!"
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBennyB View Post
    A lot of people are saying they want more "realistic" or "historical" battles. I find this to be on the contrary. People think they want realistic battling but when we've run our Rolling Thunder campaign scenario's that put stresses on operator's such as fuel limits, artillery strikes, bridge and mine clearing, and chains of command with logistical support, and then oh yea complete an
    objective, we get ALOT of feedback that it's too complicated and takes too much time. For the most part I feel people still want a fast paced "game" not a simulation. We'll see what kind of feedback we get after our Sept event at Danville and report. I'm for both sides of the coin. I have patience to wait out an enemy tank for an hour or bum rush the whole team while doing a "death blossom!"
    Kind of the way I play WOT

    I kind of agree with you. Sometime things can just get to darn complicated. I softened my approach a lot to realism after attending Danville.. I appreciated the amount of work that went in to just ensure fair play on a simple set up. Multiply the complexity of the game and you multiply the effort to stage it.
    Last edited by YHR; 08-22-2014 at 07:48 PM.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by YHR View Post
    Kid of the way I play WOT

    I kind of agree with you. Sometime things can just get to darn complicated. I softened my approach a lot to realism after attending Danville.. I appreciated the amount of work that went in to just ensure fair play on a simple set up. Multiply the complexity of the game and you multiply the effort to stage it.
    That's for sure Dan. It takes us months of back and forth emails amongst club members and other tankers to try and get all the bugs that may come up during one of our
    Rolling Thunder campaign weekends and plenty of new or unthought of variables still come up. It is completely worth it though, when you see a fire team or platoon gel and really see
    what we can do with these things on both the tactical and operational aspect. we usually run a good ol' team deathmatch button mash a couple times during the weekend to let your head rest and just do some killing. Everyone is going to have different expectations on what they want their hobby to
    fulfill. Just speaking for my club, if you didn't have to start up drinking or smoking and aren't talking about the battle weekend to your wife, kids, or friends into the next week, we failed......or give us another weekend or two....he he. And like I've said before, when your operating with tasks and timed objectives, what "shot" to pull off is on the very bottom of your priority list. Don't wanna piss off your platoon leader and be on KP.
    Last edited by TheBennyB; 08-22-2014 at 08:00 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Amphibian View Post
    I don't think you will leave Danville very disappointed. Even if we do not all like the style of play being used in the battle going on, it is still fun. The interaction of the people is great, and meeting new people too. I have taken a tank out to an open area of the museum for someone (mostly kids) to drive more than once. There is a lot more to a battle weekend than just the battles, and that keeps me interested.

    Herman
    I agree with you.. eventually people just show up for the fun, the giggles and the chat with friends. This is the point when you get down to it.

    Also yes... this horse has been beaten to death
    CAN-AM Rc Tank Club - Tiger I * Panzer IV * Panzer III * Chi Nu Kai **** KV-2 * Pershing * T-34/85 * M4A1 Sherman

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  7. #57
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    All good points on realism and I do agree. Too complicated isn't fun. We follow rules day in and day out, adding more rules to our fun serves no one.

    That said, I think the word realism may be either misused or misunderstood here. Expecting a model tank to shoot one tank at a time isn't that much of a burden if it moves towards a quasi-realistic battle. Yes our models can be horribly unrealistic in terms of speed, accuracy, movement, etc. , especially cocking the turret to avoid getting hit, but I think it's safe to say that at no time in the history of warfare did one tank use one projectile to hit multiple dispersed targets.

    Maybe limit fan shots to Calliopes and Nebelwerfers?
    What, me worry?

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by ausf View Post
    All good points on realism and I do agree. Too complicated isn't fun. We follow rules day in and day out, adding more rules to our fun serves no one.

    That said, I think the word realism may be either misused or misunderstood here. Expecting a model tank to shoot one tank at a time isn't that much of a burden if it moves towards a quasi-realistic battle. Yes our models can be horribly unrealistic in terms of speed, accuracy, movement, etc. , especially cocking the turret to avoid getting hit, but I think it's safe to say that at no time in the history of warfare did one tank use one projectile to hit multiple dispersed targets.

    Maybe limit fan shots to Calliopes and Nebelwerfers?
    Ahh, the calliope. Saw one with 3 emitters. One in the mantlet and 2 in the launcher on each upper corner tube. He really thought he was gonna be a game breaker till he fired and lit up his whole squad. Man that thing had some spread!! Your right Ausf, it's not asking much to try and wrangle these issues, and for the most part any club level or backyard event won't even bring this stuff up. For the most part I'm only bringing up the issues as I've seen them play out at a large venue such as Danville where you have people form all around the country
    spend good amounts of money on travel and lodging and have valid opinions of what they'd like to see run. Like any other hobby or just life, your never going to make everyone happy. Just invite everyone, kill some batts, and talk shop around the pool afterwards with plenty of cold ones.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  9. #59
    Strato50's Avatar
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    Another thought I had goes as such... why do I model WW2 era tanks for r/c at all? There are many other r/c combat systems that are unrestricted. If you can built it and make it work, go nuts. Think robot / mech combat vehicles.. yes they exist

    I build WW2 because there's an attachment to historically significant action. It adds to the fun to personally limit what your machine can do and experience a small percentage of that type of combat.
    CAN-AM Rc Tank Club - Tiger I * Panzer IV * Panzer III * Chi Nu Kai **** KV-2 * Pershing * T-34/85 * M4A1 Sherman

    Clark board wizard. I can fix it!

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strato50 View Post
    Another thought I had goes as such... why do I model WW2 era tanks for r/c at all? There are many other r/c combat systems that are unrestricted. If you can built it and make it work, go nuts. Think robot / mech combat vehicles.. yes they exist

    I build WW2 because there's an attachment to historically significant action. It adds to the fun to personally limit what your machine can do and experience a small percentage of that type of combat.
    Yup, I'll guess to say all of us are in this hobby for the historical attributes, but some may not know the actual technical specs of tanks. What then do you do when a new tanker shows up and has paid $$$$ for travel and lodging and has a stock tamiya KT(still more $$$) that is a Ferrari out of the box? Not let them on the field? My point in most of this is there is such a
    grey abyss of a line that you have to allow everything offered, otherwise keeping track of who's running what is mind numbing. It all comes down to giving eveyone a chance to get in the
    hobby, have some fun, and push the envelope on these toys a bit.
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  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by ausf View Post
    All good points on realism and I do agree. Too complicated isn't fun. We follow rules day in and day out, adding more rules to our fun serves no one.

    That said, I think the word realism may be either misused or misunderstood here. Expecting a model tank to shoot one tank at a time isn't that much of a burden if it moves towards a quasi-realistic battle. Yes our models can be horribly unrealistic in terms of speed, accuracy, movement, etc. , especially cocking the turret to avoid getting hit, but I think it's safe to say that at no time in the history of warfare did one tank use one projectile to hit multiple dispersed targets.

    Maybe limit fan shots to Calliopes and Nebelwerfers?
    I definitely agree that things can get too complicated, and I'm sure I'd have fun at Danville just learning new techniques and modeling skills (even after 45 years there's always new and better ways to do things) and I really agree with YHR about speeds and momentum. I don't think things would have to be too complicated, just simple team objectives, and I've heard that some systems can limit a tank to 40 rounds. The most important thing for me would be for everyone to be at least somewhat realistic as far as capabilities are concerned. If the real tank had a top speed of 20 mph, then a more scale-like speed would be better. If you want to jackrabbit around for an advantage in a battle, build an M-18 Hellcat!

    I guess the bottom line is that there are about eleventy-zillion different aspects to this hobby (yes, that's the actual number), so as long as I'm having fun I won't sweat the dumbs**t. I'm going to go ahead with my plan to enjoy as many aspects as I can, and it looks like that means a couple of Tamiya compatible tanks, one of which will be an Easy 8 if it kills me.

    I've already met some really cool people, so if I make it to the level of battle that they have at Danville I'll just have to look at it like I used to look at pool tournaments - I really hate ball-in-hand, but the rules are the same for everyone so I'll just have to beat them at their own game. I just hope this hobby can agree on the rules, and that those rules take things like scale speed into account. Or maybe at least have different classes of competition, something like boxing, but using speed instead of weight classes. Most guys know if their gearboxes are 3:1 or 4:1 or what, and it seems like all the guys in this hobby are at least fairly honest with some sense of ethics, so I think something like that might actually work. Self declaration of equipment on the honor system. If you have an unrealistically fast tank, you'd be in a different class than someone like me that has a T1 with a scale top speed of 28 mph, just like the real thing (at least that's my goal, or as close as I can get). Most guys I've talked to have more than one tank anyway, so you could set them up to compete in different classes.

  12. #62
    ausf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBennyB View Post
    and for the most part any club level or backyard event won't even bring this stuff up.
    Exactly. That's why I've never heard of this stuff beyond the oft-referred to fan as if it was some bygone era or Bigfoot or something. That's also why I didn't think there was a debate to beat to death.

    All of this gives me an idea though: I'd like to put on a Godzilla suit and walk Danville with two universal remotes. How many Shermans are typically there on a given weekend?
    What, me worry?

  13. #63

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    We run on road speeds at Danville to allow for stock tanks and for tankers who don't have the experience, time, or money to mess with gearing or motors.
    Either way tanks are running historical speeds with a +/- of 2-3. For the most part we don't even inspect speed anymore, if a tank seems to be running
    ridiculously fast it's pulled from the field.
    AAF # 111284-25
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  14. #64

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    I spend the equivalent of the cost of a NIB Tamiya Sherman full-option in gas, tolls and hotels each time I make a trip to Danville, and I loved every minute of it. Its also why I always rock up on a Friday and stay till Sunday to get in all the tanking I can, no matter what rules are in effect for that weekend. I've never regretted making the 1,200 mile round trip yet!
    Chung-Leong

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