pedzola

New guy here. I remember looking at Tamiya tanks years ago and being put off by the cost, but they were the only game in town. These days I have a little more disposable income, and it looks like there are a few more options on the market.

However, I'm having a hard time figuring out the available offerings. Can anyone help?


- I want a scale model of a WWII-era tank that functions and reacts as much like the real thing as possible.

- When I think tank, I think rough terrain, mud, water, etc. I want the tank to be powerful and durable enough (waterproof?) to handle tough conditions.

- I am not afraid of building or modification, but painting/finishing is my kryptonite.


I have been creeping around on the forums getting more confused instead of narrowing in on my options.

People say Tamiya is the best, but don't see any reasons for that.

The Chinese manufacturers... taigen, torro, heng long, mato... are these all the same company? Very hard to tell the products apart, or even to find info/retailers.


What does the community think?

What questions do I need to ask, what should I be thinking about? If you could only have 1 RC tank, what would it be?

Max-U52

The first thing to decide is what you'll do with your new tank. Do you want to join a club and participate in IR battles, or will you just drive around the yard and shoot BBs at the squirrels? Figure out what you want from your tank, and come up with a budget for your first purchase, and then you'll be much better equipped to decide what brand is right for you. Do you want it to be mainly ready out of the box or do you want to build (and paint) a kit? What will you do with it once it's ready for the great outdoors?

Panther G

No brand is "water proof" .This would be the quickest way to destroy any brand or model you want. Water proofing can be done but it is not the easiest or most reliable of projects. As far as mud and rough terrain, again these are scale models, that does not mean that just because they are 1:16 the size or weight that they will perform on a similar scale as a full size tank. Many things can be done to improve them but a straight out of the box model will not act or perform like its full sized counter part. If you want a true to form model the Tamiya will give you the most accuracy OTB with out needing to do 100.00s of dollars of upgrades right from the start.
There are full metal models that can be bought but even they need up grades to function anything close to a full sized tank. You really need to decide what you absolutely require of your model and then do the research as to what will be needed to accomplish that task. all the information you could need is on these forum pages and there are the best modelers and builders in the hobby here to help.

pedzola

Thanks for the reply. I guess I left that wide open...

- What will I do with the tank? Drive it around outside I guess. Maybe in the basement.

- No time for tank clubs, probably no battling. Don't particularly care about airsoft either. So, undecided. Maybe airsoft would be fun w/cardboard targets? What kind of range do they have?

- Budget: whatever gets me the best value in realism and capability for the $$. If I can get a $200 tank that I'm happy with, great. If it takes $1000+ to get a decent tank, then I would consider that.

- RTR or kit? If I paint a tank, I'm not confident I can make it look good. I can BUILD one I'm sure, but painting it is the problem. RTR feels a little bit like cheating, and maybe like I'd be missing out on half the experience... but then again, I have no idea how hard a tank kit is to put together. I don't have a lot of free time, and I don't have a workshop.


Bottom line I guess is I want it to be something substantial and impressive. If I take a picture/video of it in the right setting I would want people guessing if it is real. Something that is obviously a toy will not do.

Preferences: I like Russian tanks. Prefer something with a short barrel.

pedzola

Thanks Panther G -

What is the biggest limitation of most models? What does a Tamiya give me that is "more accurate?"

I am not planning to drive it at the bottom of a pond, but would prefer to be able to drive through water up to the top of the tracks without having to worry about destroying the tank. (If I could hose the mud off - another plus).

Is that an unrealistic expectation?


The couple of things I've noticed in youtube videos that I don't like...

1) Too fast. Many of the real tanks only went something like 30mph. Why does an RC tank zip around at a scale speed of like 200mph?

2) Lights and gadgets hanging off the tank. I've noticed some that shoot BB's have a bright red light when they are ready to shoot. Seems to ruin the aesthetic. Also the IR unit sitting on the top, batteries strapped to the back, and other things that make it LOOK like a toy.


Am I already looking at something totally custom just to have a tank that drives slow and can take a couple inches of muddy water?

ausf

If you're looking for scale realism, you'll really need to be building and modding, which requires painting. Tamiya will offer the best in terms of scale, etc since they are a modeling company.

In terms of scale operation, the skies the limit in terms of lights, animating figures, etc. but again, it all requires some work.

To be able to go into water above the drive sprocket, you'll need to take the same approach boats would with a stuffing box type of setup, keeping in mind, even with that boats still take on water and require pumps, etc. I'd rethink that requirement if I were you. It can be done, but it would take more work than reward, unless it was specifically built to do that.

Here's some pics of my Tamiya JS-2. The second will show how well they did the cast texture, but the welds are mine.

Next is a HL Stug. HLs can be brought up to that level of detail, but will require more work.

Final pic is a scale T-34 converted to RC with Tamiya electronics.

Max-U52

Take a look at this

http://www.imex-model.com/product/TA...le.html?cid=88

It can be had for less than that price, and this would be a good first tank for a guy in your situation. It will give you a good introduction to the hobby, and should fit in with the limited impression of your lifestyle. You'll have a lot of fun with it, and it will tell you if you want to tackle building or upgrading a different tank.

You might also consider having a tank built for you. There are many talented modelers on this site that do that sort of thing, but it can get expensive. Since you don't want to paint and don't have a workshop, you'll probably be best off going with something that won't take a lot of work or fixin' right from the start like the cheaper tanks, and it doesn't require the tools and equipment it takes to build the gold standard Tamiya tanks. Of course, that's just an old hippie's opinion, and I've only been in the hobby about two years, but I've seen a lot of guys start off like you already and I'm confident in showing you this T-34.

Max-U52

You also might want to see the videos in this thread (if you haven't already). Especially the T-34.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...ing-tiger.html

Panther F

JUST remember this when making your selection.


"You get what you pay for."





Jeff

ksoc

A Tamiya kit, while more expensive, goes together relatively easily. Attached is a link for the instructions for the KV-1 (a Russian short barreled tank).

http://www.tamiyausa.com/pdf/manuals/56028ml.pdf

A few simple modeling and hand tools is all it should take.

If it breaks, spare parts are available. Don't worry too much about a lack of painting skill. My first tanks were painted with nothing more than Tamiya spray cans. After a couple of minutes driving through the dirt, they start to look "weathered". You can always go back later and repaint the tanks.

Be careful about driving through mud. I did that early on, and made the mistake of letting a heavy coat dry on the tracks. It took a lot longer to clean up than it did to get it dirty.

pedzola

Ausf, your models look great. Love the JS2. The level of detail on these is far beyond what I'm looking for. Appreciate your comments on water. Maybe sealing a tank will be the big do-it-yourself challenge for me.

Maxu, the Taigen T34 is what I originally had my eye on. It seems to have a lot of great features for the $$. But I am concerned about the switches and charge port on the bottom, seems like the absolute worst place for these, no? Would be concerned about even driving through wet grass w/this.

Also I'm having a hard time understanding the track recoil (though I guess this is on most tanks?). It seems like there isn't an easy way to turn this off. Seems like no matter what version you get, Airsoft or IR, you would want to be able to shoot on the move, right?

And what is the deal with Heng Long and Torro compared to Taigen? Are they the same? Seems like Imex distributes all 3? But I can't find any retailers with heng long or torro tanks. Only a couple w/the Taigen's. (Found on Amazon, Ebay, and some tank museum website?)

HMM!

Still nobody has answered the question why Tamiya is better than the other tanks. Can anyone enlighten me? Why buy a Tamiya kit that requires assembly for $700+ when I can get a fully assembled and running Taigen for $450?

Thanks everyone for your input. Sorry for being such a noob...

jarndice

Pedzola I cannot help wondering why you are here? If we went into a hobby shop and bought a HENG LONG etc and got it home, took it out of the box and used/played with it, there would not be this and similar Forum, It is because we do not like the switches underneath and non stop recoil and, and, and, etc that we are here, we want for whatever reason to change our Tanks, it might be different decals or a new paint job or a complete rebuild but what we are not here for is to worship the makers product as is, we know we can do better??? or at least change the Tank to meet our particular plan,.If you spent time going through the pages of this Forum the answer to every question you have asked you will find already answered, Please don't mistake me, you are most welcome, but most of us thrive on research into our particular Tank and a little research into the subject of r/c Tanks in general would make your membership of this Forum more useful to you,shaun

ausf

Not all Tamiyas are $700. You can get the M4 for under $500.

The difference is:

Tamiya started the whole 1/16 RC tank movement and remains the gold standard for the hobby. The electronics are bullet proof, work like intended and carry a lifetime warranty. The kits are well engineered and include every bit of tape and hardware to complete. You're paying for the whole package, research through engineering and in return getting your money's worth. I have a Tiger I that is about 12 years old, still battling like the day I built it, all original and survived use by both my sons, including being rolled down a set of concrete steps.

Getting back to price, that StuG is a $100 HL, but by the time it was done with a sound and battle system, all the inaccuracies were fixed and necessary upgrades, it was well over the cost of a Tamiya, not including the months of work.

Then HL came into the picture, presenting a RTR toy tank. QC was horrible and you were just as likely to get one that didn't work as you were one that did. I would say all you heard was crickets when using customer service, but there is no customer service. I bought 4 over time, 3 didn't work. No choices on Tx/Rx. They have since upped their game a bit (I've heard).

Some companies like Mato have picked up the HL ball and run with it., offering add ons and upgrades and listening more to the hobbyists as opposed to the toy market.

Next is Taigen and IMEX, who raised the HL bar in terms of quality and offer excellent customer service. Both HL and Taigen would need upgrades to use hobby grade Txs.

The question really isn't what's the best, but what's the best for you. Taigen is probably your choice. Reasonably scale and expected to be ready for use out of the box. If not the customer service is there to help.

CaptainB

Agree with everything Ausf said............one thing is for sure - it is quite a learning curve in this hobby to get the tanks as you want so be prepared to get stuck in..........

CaptB

YHR

Hi

Taigen sells a bunch of tanks packaged up different ways. You need to be aware of exactly what you are getting and what you are paying. In some case a Taigen tank is a Heng Long tank with a nicer paint job, but they also are developing their own up grades to install on the basic Heng Long.

The recoil thing is a big pain the butt. Hard on motors. I sell the BARC 3 which converts a standard Heng Long with an RX 18 over to a Tamiya compatible battle tank( with speed reduction,weight classes and reload times) with user definable, momentum, eliminates the hull recoil( You can shoot on the move with a BARC), and allows the stock HL electronics to be used with a Hobby grade radio. Also is a Benedini encoder to make use of programmable sound.

Clark, IBU2, Elmod make a complete board that just replaces the stock electronics.

RCTA, has a bunch of add on boards that you purchase, but the total on all the modules you need will add up, and as far as I know they have no sound. He has been working on something, but us of yet is only in the prototype stage. Seems to have a lot of features, but too early to say when and how much it will cost when it does hit the market

Just know that regardless of what you buy you will probably sink at least $600 into the project to get it to stock Tamiya like. Tamiya puts out a nice kit with great instructions and they go together systematically to result in a very capable tank. Knowing that you are going to sink $600 into just about anything, I don't think the Tamiya cost is at all out of line. Good details with solid plug and play electronics make them the bench mark. I personally think their electronics are getting old, and you can certainly buy better sounding units now, but over all they deliver a very well balanced product.

YHR

Oh

A Heng long KV1 with a set of lower ratio gear boxes( Mato 2.0 or the new 4 shaft boxes that are now out) would deliver you a nice tank for what you intend to do for less then $250 all in,

Remington PSS

Get a Tamiya Tiger I or II. They are relatively easy to build and can be finished in just Panzer Dark Yellow if you want.

Watch this to get some ideas: http://youtu.be/gmM5nvyV5Ps

Panther F

I think the best thing for you to do is hook up with a few tank owners and try them out. This way (unlike us) you can have first hand knowledge of what to expect. And I'll tell you, the majority of the YouTube videos are most likely NOT a Tamiya or larger scale tanks. The entry level tanks respond poorly and are of the sort that are usually too fast on the initial throttling up. On a hobby radio you can set the limitations for any variable throttle you want OR, use a limiter to control the radios response. I'll also be the one to say your cheaper,entry tanks are more toy like in scale and driving characteristics than compared to spending more money.

That's why I said, you get what you pay for. And it's like any other thing in life. Shoes, cars, houses, life insurance! They in comparison all do the same thing, but the higher up the level of product and the more money spent will give you the satisfaction I think you are looking for.

I also think you would best be served buying a used or second hand Tamiya from someone we all know and can trust, look it over, take it apart and learn. If it's not what you expected then you didn't go through all the teething pains of assembling and set up, or the higher price for the kit and the radio gear. Or... go to a battle day (like Danville) and check out ALL the cream of the crops! But for just general cruising I think you will find some somewhat highly modified tanks that will be completely different than to what you want to see. These guys have tanks that are meticulously prepared and battle ready so they may react completely different to what you may want... or want to spend too. But it is good to see the comparisons and what CAN be done to a hobby level tank than with an RTR (Ready To Run). You'll most likely sink more money into those than the more expensive choices as they usually have bearings and bushings in the roadwheels, most have a sheet of PE and an aluminum barrel... all waiting for you to customized into whatever version you want. And most AM (After Market) parts are catered to Tamiya tanks, but there are some brand oriented parts too for the RTR's.

Okay... I haven't typed this much since school so if I can be of anymore help, let's just talk and give the old nubs here a break. PM me how and when we can and hopefully I can help.






Jeff

pedzola

Thanks for all the input. Maybe I am overthinking this. Sounds like maybe the question is do I want a new hobby or just a toy to play with?

Not sure yet.

Can anyone point me at some trusted retailers?

Where do you buy the custom electronics and parts? Would like to find out more.

RichJohnson

Matomart.com
matotoys.com
http://www.taigentanks.com

i have two tamiya shermans, a henlong panzer 3 first run,5 or more years old.
Recently the local hobby shop started carrying the new taigen tanks. They have really nice scale, cast metal lower hulls and turrets with a plastic upper hull. They are painted well, the airsoft models come weathered with lots of painted on mud, too much for me, im told the infra red battle versions do not have weathering. I played with the sherman. Out of the box i really liked it, good mass and detail. They come with metal gear boxes and drive for over 400 and plastic drive train and gears for about 200.

Dont drive through water. Stay out of mud, if yuo do get muddy, use a hand spray bottle and a small brush and clean it as soon as you are finished.

Yes the rc tanks are fast. Just dont drive fast. I dont trow my stick around and self limit my throttle, ( i run model trains and scale warships slow, at scale speeds).

pick the model of tank you want and then decided if you want taigen, tamiya, or a henlong from mato( they upgrade them).
I built my first sherman at a glass coffe table in 3 nights, one night the whole tank and then one night each side track assembly. I remember my fingers hurt snapping all those metal clips together back in 2000.

If your not a serious modeler and just want some fun or just start out and maybe go further later, get a henlong or taigen.

oh also, stay out of the grass. I do not like driving my tamiya shermans in the grass, yes it looks cool when the grass gets high, but thats like running a scale tank through high dense brush, very hard on the drive train of the model.

Tanque

Boy that KT driver looks vaguely familiar....

Augustus1967

Heck might as well chime in as a Relatively New RC Tanker...

I would Add:
Take a Look at the Taigen KV1.
All Metal Lower.
Tough as Nails.
Short Barrel.
Runs Great...

Artistic Hobbies sells it with Free Shipping.
They Check Out the Tanks before they Ship Em.
And Artistic, Taigen and Imex Erik have GREAT Customer Service...
They are RC Tankers.
Good place for After Market Bits.

MatoMart is also a Good Vender.
They are also RC Tankers.
Good place for After Market Bits...

RUN AWAY from Amazon!!!
This is where I got my One and Only Broken Nonworking Tank...

-gus

Panther G

I personally would suggest a Taigen first. The Tamiya really is the best all around package for reasons already stated but with a Tiagen you get a decent running model for not a great amount of initial cost. If you decide you DO want a hobby and not just a toy them Tamiya is the way to go. It will afford you the great opportunity and fun of building the kit plus all the realism and reliability that Tamiya is world renowned for. A new person in the hobby can become discouraged very quickly with the RTR models on the market because of less than exciting performance and in a lot of cases very poor quality. With a Tamiya you wont have bad performance or porr reliability. Plus they have the most realistic movement and sound OTB you can buy. Also as has been said they are the industry standard. So those are my suggestions a Tamiya or Taigen. The T34 is a great little tank and the Panther G is a real performer in the Taigens. Any model you get from Tamiya would please you very much. My favorites are the Pershing M26 and the Panther G. I have both. The best tanks in the whole lot by any brand.

pedzola

Thank you for the Artistic Hobbies reference. I found their website w/Taigen Tanks. But it looks like they only carry the IR models, not Airsoft?

http://www.artistichobbies.com/taigenrctanks.php


Are there any shops in the US that carry the airsoft versions?


I do like the KV1. I will have to dig in and see what is different between the KV and T34/85. KV is ~$100 cheaper at Artistic, so what's the diff?

Max-U52

Call Artistic Hobbies at 800-610-4294 and ask for Gene. He's really cool and if he doesn't have a T-34 in airsoft in stock he'll have one before you know it. And make sure you tell him you're a new forum member and this is your first tank and he might even sweeten the deal for ya.