pedzola

I'm editing this post because I wrote some things that obviously struck a nerve for some people here on the board.

I don't want to start a war or a debate, I'm just trying to help people with expectations that they may have when they drop $400+ on a new toy. Not all of us are veteran RCers, or modelers. I just wanted to pick up a ready-to-go tank to play with once in a while and be done with it. Instead I ended up buying a lot of tools, and making a lot of upgrades. I don't resent that - I'm having fun - but it is a challenge, and not at all what I expected when I made my original purchase.

I'm summarizing my original message here, re-written in a way so as to be a little less inflammatory - I apologize if I offended anybody:


1) Heng Long, Mato, Torro, Matorro, Taigen, Asiatam. These MOSTLY have interchangeable parts, but as a poster below points out - some of that is changing. Don't get confused and look for one specific name when you are looking for something. The brand in the US might be one of these other brands in Europe, etc.

2) Quality - Tamiya tanks have a cult following, and if you search around enough you'll find reasons why. For me, personally, it still seems like they require a lot of upgrades (they come with plastic tracks for example).

The other models are not toys (as I ineloquently suggested previously), but if you are expecting scale realism out of your tank you may have to do some work to it. #1 menace for most of us who want to pretend like we have a real mini-tank driving around: They are too fast. "Super spin" looks (the tank spins in place with each track moving the opposite direction) looks rediculous in the stock configuration for most tanks.

Also, basically, stuff breaks. You should have a small workshop including a couple different types of glue on hand to fix stuff. When you turn over that 15 pound tank in your hand, if you touch that tiny machine gun sticking or other small plastic accessory sticking out out it will snap off.

In my opinion, the plastic on my tank (and likely most other similar plastic tanks) is very brittle. So be know to be careful.

Lastly, if you want to drive in mud, water, etc... you will need to seal the chassis, probably keep a good layer of oil on all the moving parts, and clean it carefully after each use. This is not the original intent of these models, despite how much fun it looks in the youtube videos.

3) I stand by my comment that there are no good shopping options for these tanks in the US. YES you can get what you are looking for, YES there are good people, but Market options are limited, availability is poor, and you will struggle to find reliable sellers to purchase your tank and parts from. Don't discount international sellers. You may need to order from Europe, Asia, or Australia to get what you want.

4) IMEX customer service (Erik) is excellent, and I highly recommend their products for that reason alone. Erik probably deserves a raise for all the work he does and his support for the community here. HAving said that, there are other market options besides the products they carry. I have been very happy with my KV2 in terms of aesthetics and the integrity and mechanical components in the lower hull. I have made a lot of upgrades to it to get it to where I personally would like to see my tank, but that doesn't mean it would be the same for everyone.

5) Lots of airsoft tanks out there, but know that the market is geared towards IR battling, and not airsoft so much. The airsoft cannon makes a loud windup noise and has a bright red LED that goes off as a warning that it is about to fire.


Having said all of that... this isn't meant to scare people away. We would all like to see the hobby grow. Tanking is fun.

Just do your research, and be prepared to outfit a small workshop if you want to upgrade your tank.

My tips: Pick a tank with as many metal parts and as much interior space as possible.


The biggest problem I see as a new tanker is that you can't see or touch RC tanks anywhere. We have to rely entirely on information found online. Most youtube videos are of highly modified tanks. It is VERY difficult to get an idea of how they work or move without having one in your hands.

My personal experience is just one guy, with one tank, so take it with a grain of salt. Lots of much more experienced people here to learn from.

CaptainB

Hmmmmmm......for a new guy into this hobby, you are making an awful lot of statements and assumptions in this note which I know will inflame a lot of folks on this forum, too many for me to comment on - I'll watch the fireworks!!!!!

CaptB

edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

Several people will tell you why. I have had my Original Sherman for TEN years and it is still my best battler. It has been modified by me cosmetically a few times, but in terms of running gear, I have replaced one track, two idlers, and three return rollers. It has ORIGINAL gearboxes. Ask around, I battle A LOT. I have gotten my money out of it. If you buy a new in box Tamiya, you are definitely gonna feel the pinch. BUT IT WORKS, and the replacement parts are available and WORK. If you are committed to this hobby you can find deals and sales out there. I have rarely bought an actual kit in years. I refurb, trade, or scratch build version I can't get.

As per the toy grade tanks..... I understand what they are and use them as such. PARTS donors. Items like Heng Long traverse are useful and I admit to adding them to many tamiya builds but I just transformed a 1/18 scale M113 into a runner..... by adding Tamiya parts. I have a HL KV-1 on the shelf waiting for..... Tamiya Electronics.

I have buddies with RC planes, cars, ships, and trains. I have far less overhead that most of them in the tools department. (all though I am trying)

Just sayin'

topshinemodel

tomhugill

In all seriousness you seem to have issues with all the main stream brands on market.

I've never had an issue with HL plastic always been pretty robust for me. You don't have a Tamiya so I don't see how you can have a relevant opinion on a Tamiya tank.

The other folks in the usa manage to buy tank parts, you have Mato, ETO, imex, immortal, artistic and probably more. I don't live in the states and have never used any of them but even I know them.

Most aftermarket electronics can support air soft. Tell people what they should like is never going to go well!

jarndice

I have to say that your attitude to this hobby is miles away from most people I know,
your description of the interchangability between HENG LONG/TORRO/TAIGEN et al was perhaps true ten years ago as was the quality of the plastic but times change and so has the plastic. while most of the makers listed sell and market their products as childrens toys the big attraction of these tanks is their price and their ease of upgrade,
I enjoy breaking down a HENG LONG/TAIGEN/TORRO Tank and fitting new control boards,and painting a tank in a researched pattern along with the correct decals, You would appear to want a reliable running tank straight out of the box for pennies which is why people with your mindset usually find them-self looking on E-BAY for a pre-built TAMIYA TANK,
Go to it I say because coming here is a lot more about building tanks than cussing about them .shaun

pedzola

I didn't mean to be a troll or start a war. Yes, some of my comments were inflammatory and maybe negative. I've edited my original post to try to get the point across without pissing everybody off.

I am enjoying the hobby - there are some challenges that I didn't expect when I started, but I like the tank I bought, I've met some great and helpful people, and there is a huge wealth of information available for those who look. I am already planning more upgrades and another tank.

However, for the "casual buyer" who is expecting (or hoping for) a realistic scale model that they won't have to put any work into, at any price... that is an expectation I think is unrealistic. And I think we should educate people.

RCTanking is vastly more popular in other parts of the world, and the info (and tanks and parts) are not always the easiest to find. This is a small niche hobby and for everyone used to shopping at Amazon.... things are just a tad more difficult, and slower.

I started off looking for big kid toy, and I ended up with a hobby.

tomhugill

I'm intrigued how you come to the conclusions that you can't buy a realistic model tank RTR at any price. You say you have the Taigen (imex) kv-2. I also have this tank and it performs admirably on all surfaces I've tried it on. I also have tanks based in the taigen tiger and Panther lowers (exactly as they're supplied rtr) and they also work very well off road and on grass.

Im assuming your discounting Tamiya on the basis of them being kits. However with the exception of the king tiger (which needs a $20 idler upgrade) they all perform excellently off road in my experience right out of the box.

Im not sure how many hobbyists (of any kind) are used to just shopping at Amazon. Just because tank parts aren't spoon fed doesn't make them difficult or particularly hard to find, also these forums are excellent and most people are very willing to help if they can.

Tanker 10

Some of what you say is true. However, when one enters a new hobby, there will always be a learning curve. Parts availability could be better. I buy tanks and parts from either Artistic Hobbies or IMEX. I've found myself buying parts and accessories from the UK a lot more these days. My local hobby shop carries Taigen air soft tanks only during the Christmas season, doesn't carry air soft BB's, or tank parts ever. Keeps telling me "I can order it" well, so can I. This hurts the hobby and does not promote growth. I think your expectations may have been a little high, and if I remember correctly, you started modifying from day one instead of easing into things. Lots of pressure for folks to make their tank look and sound like the real thing if you allow yourself to get caught up in that. I welcome advise from those who have already done it, but my common sense and budget only allows modification to a point so I pick my priorities before I start.

cleong

Some things I would raise (not specifically directed at you, because I observe it in other new guys as well):

- For the serious hobbyists, Tamiya is more common than you think. Definitely not merely a "cult following";
- Metal isn't always better;
- RC Tanks aren't as mainstream as other RC hobbies. You could get the odd tank or other from one of the mainstream retailers but few retailers offer anything that resembles support. Imex and RCTankSingapore (serves the local/regional South East Asian community) are exceptions in my experience.

Its not the hobby's fault that it does not meet your (mis)conceptions of what tanks can do. But even real 1:1 tanks aren't go-everywhere things, they carry spare track links for a reason and they have to watch where they drive. Plenty of photos of beached tanks online. You can compare any RC tank to any other RC vehicle and quickly realize there are far more moving parts. Yet, they require (and consume) a lot less spares.Other RC genres suck you in with a palatable entry price, and keep you spending on hop-ups and spares as you use your vehicle. During my touring car racing days, I'd have multiples of complete suspensions, drive cups not to mention a dozen spur and pinion gear choices, along with a set or two of $60 tires.

YHR

Although I don't agree with all of you assessments, I think the observations at least let someone new, know that these aren't trouble free. People do need to understand that. Even the Tamiya need service. You are bang on with respect that this is not a mainstream hobby, and as such things are not marketed or as available as other hobbies.

You are having fun, and that is the main thing.

I hope you continue on the path, and perhaps one day this hobby will elevate it's appeal, and the market will then support the investment required for someone to build the "perfect" tank

Cheers

Shorty54

This is just my personal experience and is in no way directly directed towards any 1 forum or 1 person. Im still new to RC, about 6 years, yes I say new because I still am learning alot about all this stuff. I have planes, all foam mostly 750mm size, warbirds of coarse, 1/8 scale trucks, micro helis, and now I have bought 6 tanks since January, 3 VSP IRs and 3 IR Taigens. I have modified, maintained, and repaired all of them. Some of my planes are RTF, but if you want longer flight times get a bigger battery. Like others have said, there is alot of RC that can be taken out of the box and used as is. I am a small engine technician, I have been for almost 20 years. Im still learning new things there also. I can say this though about anything you buy, at least with an engine or motor, I have yet to see or buy something that does not to to be modified, maintained or repaired. I bought a brand new Can Am ATV back in June, I have done alot of mods to make it better, not that It couldnt be drove right off the show room floor, but now it is better and suits me better. Also parts have failed, some are covered under warrany and some are not. Snowmobiles, same thing, people buy new and mod, maintain and repair, they average $12k now days and they still buy add ons for them. Some at local dealers, but lots online. Boats, fish houses, vehicles, bicycles, new homes,boobs, tummy tucks, etc. I am under 40, and I have learned through my life, so far, that anything you buy will never be up to your standards and you will always want it improved and you will either spend the money to have someone else do it for you, or spend the money plus the time and do it yourself. You will either get frustrated and screw it up more, sell it, or learn from it and improve on the next project. The problem is, is what is good enough for me, might not be for you, and the other way around, my expextations may be higher than yours. Any Hobby is a commitment and cost money! I dont care what it is, RC, hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, biking, you name it, its all expensive, takes time, maintainence, tools, etc. If you enjoy it, have fun at it and it releives stress, then its worth it, if not then quit that hobby and find one that does. When something says Ready to Fly, Ready To Run, Plug and Play, it more than likely is. My 9 year old daughter could care less that her Taigen Sherman doesnt actually sound like a real Sherman, but yet I put a Clark TK in it to make it more realistic. The nice thing is, is that you can do 0 mods or 1000, some in minutes, some in years, its all up to you and you alone. I have no local hobby shop, all my info comes from these forums and youtube, I dont know how you vetran rc guys did it before the WWW! Hang in there, you will find your nitch, good luck!! Sorry for dragging on, I had to step away from my little 650mm Japanese Zero to collect my thoughts, having a hard time with the COG.

heavyaslead

I think you have some good points, especially that when new-comers to the hobby have something that breaks or see how much 'upgrade' is required for an OP tank that it scares off too many from the hobby.

But one major point to remember and let all new people know is that these are still toys after all regardless of price and not precision machines. (They can be modified to be such though).

The fact these are in the toy aisle or at the hobby store kinda alerts you to the potential pitfalls of trying to use them for anything more than running around the house.

Even the lofty Armortek models need a small workshop to get fully assembled properly from Armortek owners comments I have heard.

On the positive side, I think most people know what they are getting into when they want a tank model and enjoy tinkering and modifying to make it better.

I started with the RTR 1/24 RC tanks (which are readily available) until I found out about the bigger ones. The smaller ones are better IMO for the casual user that does not want to fix it every time an issue comes up. The 1/24 scale RTR run and run, and when they break, well you haven't spent hundreds of dollars on it so you get another one.

olegnA

I think you are just being honest with your opinion and with your frustration. I think your expectation didn't meet your set of standards having spent that much money in upgrading RTR tank.

Your tip on getting a new tank is very helpful to the newcomer to this hobby, i.e. more metal, bigger tank.

I am new to the hobby as well but i kind of knew what i wanted and expected from a tank. I settled for an airsoft RTRs already upgraded for the simple reason that I would immediately play and enjoy them straight out from the box. I expected them to perform fairly well and last a long while. I expect that maintenance is crucial and with regularity.

No mods needed. Just play and enjoy them.

Until of course i wanted a better electronics. I got IBU2 and had it set-up and running on one of my tanks (many thanks to AELock in helping me with my radio). I wanted my tank to run like AELock's KV2 but then that would require a LOT of modifications, which I am NOT confident enough to do YET. So, I will keep it as it and enjoy it.

For me, this is what I would like to achieve and get my hands on:
Airsoft/IR through IBU2
Axis: Tiger 1 - Taigen (got it with IBU2); Panzer lV - Taigen
Allied: Sherman - Taigen or Mato; T34/85 - Taigen (got it, no IBU2 yet); Pershing - Tamiya

I would buy and build the Tamiya last because by that time I would be really ready for it.

My advise to the newbie getting on to this hobby, if I may add - set your mind on what you want to achieve and set a realistic expectation.

I also always revert back to my signature below.

Namerifrats

While the OP sounds very critical, it could serve the purpose I think he intended it to serve. Just let people be aware of what they are actually getting into. They have a lot of moving parts, and things break. A higher quality part will obviously last longer than a lower quality part. It's like most hobbies like this. I've known people to buy a RC helicopter or plane, crash it once and never rebuild it. My dad and uncle did that very thing, lol. Said they would fix the planes 12 years ago when they crashed them......the pieces are still in my dad's shop where they were sat the day they brought them home.

As for people expecting RC tanks to behave just like real tanks, I have some thoughts on that as well. Another hobby I have is HO model railroading. I'm not into it quite as much as I was since I run 1.1 scale trains as my job. Model trains, like RC tanks, can only be so much like the prototype. Real trains don't stall when the wheels or track gets dirty. At the same time, if you run light cars ahead of a block of heavy cars, you risk a string line derailment in a tight curve. Same is true with the prototype regarding running a lot of empties ahead of a large block of loads. We refer to it at work as "Dragging a cinder block around with a slinky".

mondo

I don't agree with some of these conclusions. Tamiya for instance needs the least amount of either mechanical or cosmetic upgrades. The myth Tamiya is more expensive is long dead when you have Taigan and Torro tanks in a wooden box which cost more. Cheap ABS is brittle but cheap ABS is only really found on HL based tanks.

And availability, why are people so afraid to order from outside their own country? I now almost always buy tank parts from Germany and the far East and yet to have problems. In fact because Mitosal use a FedEx air freight, I get items faster than I would from inside the UK, and UK post is quick!

Pcomm1.v2

sergeantseabass

Not to sure. Ii'm working on my first build and so far I have ordered from UK, HK, CA, AU and US. It doesn't bother me a bit. Do i wish that there was a vendor in the US that had everything that i needed? Sure but just because it is outside my country doesn't mean i'm opposed to it just means that I'll have to wait a bit longer. I haven't seen a Torro tank yet. I have a HL which I'm building up and a Taigen which is great. I also have an old Tamiya that i'm going to do something to I just haven't decided yet. I think that they are all good in their own right. I buy HL for the ability to pick and choose the pieces I want in it. The Taigen for maybe just a electronic upgrade or two, and well I don't know yet about the tamiya since the one I got is pretty old, like TF01 old and I just don't know what i'm going to end up doing with it. Maybe an ARV. who knows.

Darkearth74

What i have to say isnt much but i will tell you the truth,and i realize that most lies start out with that being said lol,but in any case i will tell you that i have a heng long panther g and a tamiya king tiger ,the king tiger needed minimal upgrades ,idlers and tracs really everything else i added was optional,now on to the hl panther,this tank seemed very toyish poorly made compared to the tamiya,if i offend any hl owners i apologize in advance.say if we were talking about cell phones most people like the iphone as i see just about everywhere i go.now to me the level of qaulity tamiya gives you is at a discounted price compared to the other choice ,wich really to me is a poorly made copy of something really good.buy both and judge for yourself over a period of years and not days,thanks.

Panther G

considering his first model was one of the poorest to be released does not give him a reasonable range to speculate. The Kv tank when HL put it out had many issue. Yes Taigen is a much better product but it still is what it is. The simple fact that Tamiya uses plastic tracks means nothing. They have the best tracks OTB you can buy. Many IR battlers use plastic tracks simply because they cause less stress on the drive train . Big heavy metal tracks are great if you are trying to make scale videos and want to crawl around in the grass thinking your Otto Carrious but they do not help in an competitive IR battle. Not knocking any of your observations here just that you really need to see s how all these tanks perform side by side in order to really make fair comparison. Untill Asitam and companies like them came along the HL brand was a toy. HL more or less does not even exist today, atleast not in it's original form. The hobby is evolving and so are the products but you still will not find better quality OTB than a Tamiya. I have plenty of both brands, i can speak from experience.

CaptainB

I too got into tanking when HL had just started and yes, I bought a Tiger 1 and a pantiger. Ran them in the garden for a few years trouble free and had fun with them.It was only when I joined this forum that I really discovered the errors in the models and got the taste for improving them. This is when I also discovered how badly the tanks were engineered. Anyway, HL have improved a lot over the years and offer the potential for upgrading at a budget. I have all the tanks HL have produced so far and they will all get upgraded at some point. More recently, As finances have allowed, I have dipped my toes into the Tamiya and Taigen offerings and am very impressed with the quality difference over HL. The tamiya is tops in my book - no question, but the Taigens are excellent too,being available in a partially or fully built style.

For me, and with regard to new guys, this is how it works:

1) If you want a high quality,detailed and accurate rc tank kit that you build with minimal upgrading and you can take the financial hit,then Tamiya is the route - newbie or not.
The only caveat here is that it helps if one is of a practical nature to cope with the build,painting and setting up process.
2) If you are interested in RC tanks, have no desire to upgrade anything and don't care about detail inaccuracies and just want to play,then pick a HL tank and enjoy running it.
You may get quality issues and need to do some rework but help is available either at the vendor on on this forum. It's a bit of a risk but hey - it's a tank - bound to break
down occasionally.
3) If you are a hobbyist and like to start off with a cheap model of low quality and accuracy and build it into something wonderful, then again HL is a good route with all the
upgrades and options out their for improvements - marvellous really and getting better.
4) The Taigen option is a mix of all three above - The cost of a ready built Taigen tank is getting on par with Tamiya but the quality is good with very useful improvements over
the HL offerings. The Tiger 1 kit they produced (and I have ) is excellent and would recommend this.

Of course one has to consider the metal v plastic route and airsoft or IR which really comes down to personal choice, finances and what you want to do with the model.

Bottom line is the RC tank model world has evolved greatly in recent years for the better and is no longer a simple choice. I think 'If in doubt ask' applies.

Cheers

CaptB

mondo

Yeah, the metal vs plastic thing is interesting and full of inaccuracies, misconceptions and sometimes lies/marketing. I used to buy into the more metal is cool thing until I bought my 3rd or 4th tank and realise it was mostly just a fad and when I got my Tamiya Leo2 2A6 I was pretty much certain that the whole metal thing on 1:16 is a waste of money except on some components that need that additional strength or resilience. The Tammy 2A6 pretty much proves that strength is in the design and high quality ABS and Nylon, if used the right way are perfectly fine for most parts.

CaptainB

Mondo - couldn't have put it better myself - you have my vote!!!!!

CaptB

YHR

Hmmmm. What is the difference between the Cheap ABS that Heng Long uses on all their tanks and the high quality ABS that Tamiya uses on its showcase Leopard II

I agree mostly on the metal components.

Suspension arms are one area I still think Metal is a better way to go.

However, I still think there is an appeal for all metal tanks. It is a subjective desire some have, and no amount of debate is going to change the hunger to own a full metal tank

heavyaslead

+1 Mondo

The 2A6 has excellent engineering and very robust, much better than the other Tamiya models.

I've kit bashed 3 Leo's for other tanks because of its high quality drive gearbox, mechanicals and electronics.