New Stuff! ETO gearbox, Taigen 5:1, Abrams, Jagdpanther, Tiger, more!
04-09-2015, 07:35 PM
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New Stuff! ETO gearbox, Taigen 5:1, Abrams, Jagdpanther, Tiger, more!
The tanking continues...
Will provide full write-ups w/pictures later, but for now just wanted to give some quick thoughts on recent purchases.
1) ETO Armour KV gearbox (http://etoarmour.com/product_detail.php?productID=S03). Bob is an awesome guy to deal with, and this gearbox is AMAZING. Designed for the Tamiya KV1/2, but with some work I was able to get it fitted to my Torro KV2. If I would have gotten this box first, I would have saved a lot of time, $$ and frustration. Full review to come.
2) HL Abrams. I bought an Abrams w/metal tracks from an Amazon vendor TPA Store. When it arrived, a suspension arm and return roller were broken off in the box. I returned it. I have to give credit to TPA Store - price was good, shipped quickly, and customer service on the return was excellent. I was not impressed w/the Abrams though.
3) The Abrams was for an Arduino tank project. Replaced it w/a Taigen Tiger 1 - Scratch & Dent deal from IMEX. The Tiger 1 is solid! Wish I would have got this tank first instead of the KV2. Much more controllable out of the box, and a lot of nice features. This one is for my nephew. We have big plans... will report back when we've made some progress.
4) RCTank.de Jagdpanther. Well after 5+ weeks it finally arrived. I thought it was lost in customs forever. As you might know, RCTank.de has a version of the Taigen (I think?) Jagdpanther. It has an all-metal lower half which is unfortunately unavailable here in the US. Super impressed w/the tank out of the box, except of course the 3:1 gearboxes are way too fast.
5) So I also ordered a Taigen 5:1 gearbox to go with the Jagdpanther. They are available now in Europe, though again unfortunately they have not hit our shores yet. First impressions... eh. I feel like the motors really struggle to move the metal Jagdpanther. Also very noisy. And though it is "5:1" I don't really see a difference from the 4:1 gearing of the Tiger 1. Would be curious to see what the actual gear ratios are for all the gearboxes out there.
So clearly I owe you guys a lot of pictures and more in-depth reviews. Will get to that when I can.
I have 1 question right now... I reused the Torro KV2 electronics for the Jagdpanther. The KV is Airsoft, the JP is IR. When I fire the gun on the JP, it winds up like it's an airsoft cannon. The "recoil" moves for this wind up. Very strange... I thought the MFU was interchangeable, is there something I need to do to get the IR firing right?
Will provide full write-ups w/pictures later, but for now just wanted to give some quick thoughts on recent purchases.
1) ETO Armour KV gearbox (http://etoarmour.com/product_detail.php?productID=S03). Bob is an awesome guy to deal with, and this gearbox is AMAZING. Designed for the Tamiya KV1/2, but with some work I was able to get it fitted to my Torro KV2. If I would have gotten this box first, I would have saved a lot of time, $$ and frustration. Full review to come.
2) HL Abrams. I bought an Abrams w/metal tracks from an Amazon vendor TPA Store. When it arrived, a suspension arm and return roller were broken off in the box. I returned it. I have to give credit to TPA Store - price was good, shipped quickly, and customer service on the return was excellent. I was not impressed w/the Abrams though.
3) The Abrams was for an Arduino tank project. Replaced it w/a Taigen Tiger 1 - Scratch & Dent deal from IMEX. The Tiger 1 is solid! Wish I would have got this tank first instead of the KV2. Much more controllable out of the box, and a lot of nice features. This one is for my nephew. We have big plans... will report back when we've made some progress.
4) RCTank.de Jagdpanther. Well after 5+ weeks it finally arrived. I thought it was lost in customs forever. As you might know, RCTank.de has a version of the Taigen (I think?) Jagdpanther. It has an all-metal lower half which is unfortunately unavailable here in the US. Super impressed w/the tank out of the box, except of course the 3:1 gearboxes are way too fast.
5) So I also ordered a Taigen 5:1 gearbox to go with the Jagdpanther. They are available now in Europe, though again unfortunately they have not hit our shores yet. First impressions... eh. I feel like the motors really struggle to move the metal Jagdpanther. Also very noisy. And though it is "5:1" I don't really see a difference from the 4:1 gearing of the Tiger 1. Would be curious to see what the actual gear ratios are for all the gearboxes out there.
So clearly I owe you guys a lot of pictures and more in-depth reviews. Will get to that when I can.
I have 1 question right now... I reused the Torro KV2 electronics for the Jagdpanther. The KV is Airsoft, the JP is IR. When I fire the gun on the JP, it winds up like it's an airsoft cannon. The "recoil" moves for this wind up. Very strange... I thought the MFU was interchangeable, is there something I need to do to get the IR firing right?
04-10-2015, 09:43 PM
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- what is the gear ratio of those gearboxes
- what type of motors are assembled (what rpm at 7,2V with no load)
- are similar gearboxes for Tamiya IS-2 also available?
http://etoarmour.com/product_detail.php?productID=S03
- what type of motors are assembled (what rpm at 7,2V with no load)
- are similar gearboxes for Tamiya IS-2 also available?
http://etoarmour.com/product_detail.php?productID=S03
Last edited by wsn123; 04-10-2015 at 10:35 PM.
04-11-2015, 03:21 AM
#5
I've got that same JP lower and you're gonna love it. I'm using brass gearboxes and they're pretty good. The currently available steel "5:1" (do we need to go through all that again? I think Imex calls them "Dual Ratio Gearboxes". They are NOT a 5:1 ratio) are the gearboxes that Imex rejected because of torque issues. As far as I know they still haven't found a motor that works with the steel gears. I've got a set of the Taigen dual ratio boxes on my shelf that I haven't put in yet because I don't like the noise and the power issues, even in a light tank like a plastic PIII. I'm still hoping Erik comes up with a solution, or starts making them in brass again! I have one of the last brass sets from Imex and they're just terrific.
Personally, I think going to steel gears was a bad move. The brass gears work fine, they're MUCH more quiet and they don't need the hard to find high torque motors to perform properly.
So how many guys have actually had a brass gearbox fail because the brass gears weren't strong enough?
Pedzola, I'm anxiously waiting to hear your opinions on the steel dual ratio, hopefully with video.
Personally, I think going to steel gears was a bad move. The brass gears work fine, they're MUCH more quiet and they don't need the hard to find high torque motors to perform properly.
So how many guys have actually had a brass gearbox fail because the brass gears weren't strong enough?
Pedzola, I'm anxiously waiting to hear your opinions on the steel dual ratio, hopefully with video.
04-11-2015, 05:26 AM
#6
I have some of the early steel gears and they're actually fairly quiet. My brass set (same flat set...2 of them) are both fairly noisy, but solid. No breaking issues at all. Good set...would love to have them with ball bearings, though. That would be the coup d'etat.
04-11-2015, 05:44 AM
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I will try to figure out how to post a video.
For now, here are a couple of pictures. First is the ETO gearbox w/drive shafts and final gear removed, ready to install...
I don't know all the specs on the motors, but for me the proof is in the performance. If I can post a video it will be obvious. All the torque needed is available even at a slow crawl. The speed is perfect for the KV. Also, this gearbox is VERY quiet.
Another note, despite being shipped from Russia, the gearbox arrived in 3 weeks. Was expecting it to take longer.
Picture Installed in the Torro KV2 hull: Note again that this is not a drop-in - The gearbox is designed for the Tamiya KV. There was a lot of fitting and modification needed for my tank.
And lastly, a picture of the new Jagdpanther with my KV2:
I really like the subtle dark paintjob on the RCTank.de body. Dominique at RCTank.de was also a pleasure to deal with. My order was shipped fast, and even after 5 weeks (most stuck in customs I assume), the tank arrived in PERFECT condition. Packed very well. W/the current Euro exchange rate, the price was excellent. Dom took the VAT off the price for me (I guess you don't have to pay VAT if it is delivered outside of Europe?) Would not hesitate to buy from RCtank.de again, just understand that US customs might hold the package up.
For now, here are a couple of pictures. First is the ETO gearbox w/drive shafts and final gear removed, ready to install...
I don't know all the specs on the motors, but for me the proof is in the performance. If I can post a video it will be obvious. All the torque needed is available even at a slow crawl. The speed is perfect for the KV. Also, this gearbox is VERY quiet.
Another note, despite being shipped from Russia, the gearbox arrived in 3 weeks. Was expecting it to take longer.
Picture Installed in the Torro KV2 hull: Note again that this is not a drop-in - The gearbox is designed for the Tamiya KV. There was a lot of fitting and modification needed for my tank.
And lastly, a picture of the new Jagdpanther with my KV2:
I really like the subtle dark paintjob on the RCTank.de body. Dominique at RCTank.de was also a pleasure to deal with. My order was shipped fast, and even after 5 weeks (most stuck in customs I assume), the tank arrived in PERFECT condition. Packed very well. W/the current Euro exchange rate, the price was excellent. Dom took the VAT off the price for me (I guess you don't have to pay VAT if it is delivered outside of Europe?) Would not hesitate to buy from RCtank.de again, just understand that US customs might hold the package up.
04-11-2015, 05:51 AM
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I've got that same JP lower and you're gonna love it. I'm using brass gearboxes and they're pretty good. The currently available steel "5:1" (do we need to go through all that again? I think Imex calls them "Dual Ratio Gearboxes". They are NOT a 5:1 ratio) are the gearboxes that Imex rejected because of torque issues. As far as I know they still haven't found a motor that works with the steel gears. I've got a set of the Taigen dual ratio boxes on my shelf that I haven't put in yet because I don't like the noise and the power issues, even in a light tank like a plastic PIII. I'm still hoping Erik comes up with a solution, or starts making them in brass again! I have one of the last brass sets from Imex and they're just terrific.
Personally, I think going to steel gears was a bad move. The brass gears work fine, they're MUCH more quiet and they don't need the hard to find high torque motors to perform properly.
So how many guys have actually had a brass gearbox fail because the brass gears weren't strong enough?
Pedzola, I'm anxiously waiting to hear your opinions on the steel dual ratio, hopefully with video.
Personally, I think going to steel gears was a bad move. The brass gears work fine, they're MUCH more quiet and they don't need the hard to find high torque motors to perform properly.
So how many guys have actually had a brass gearbox fail because the brass gears weren't strong enough?
Pedzola, I'm anxiously waiting to hear your opinions on the steel dual ratio, hopefully with video.
04-11-2015, 06:05 AM
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Maxu - I watched your video explaining the fitting of the brass gearbox. That was invaluable for me fitting my new dual-ratio box. When I first put it into place, nothing lined up, and I was thinking I would have to drill new holes. After watching your videos I realized I just needed to dremel a little bit of material off the box and a couple of screwheads, and it lined up w/the existing holes like a charm.
I used some Breakfree (gun oil) on the gearbox last night and it was a little more quiet, but still straining to move the metal Jagdpanther. It could use another reduction (or more powerful motors of course - but I'm afraid the lack of space when these gearboxes are installed really limits the options).
I will see if I can get some videos up.
I used some Breakfree (gun oil) on the gearbox last night and it was a little more quiet, but still straining to move the metal Jagdpanther. It could use another reduction (or more powerful motors of course - but I'm afraid the lack of space when these gearboxes are installed really limits the options).
I will see if I can get some videos up.
04-11-2015, 06:26 AM
#10
Hey Pedzola, first, is that the stock Taigen electronics now in the Jagdpanther (I don't know what comes in the Torro KV-1 but I assume it's the standard Taigen MFU/TX)? If so, did you see the mod to give you up/down on the gun elevation without having to cycle all the way through?
Second, posting videos is pretty easy. I usually start with at least two windows open so I can click back and forth. In window one I'm writing my post, I click on the video icon, right next to the one you use to post photos. One of those gray boxes appears and tells me to insert the url for the video. That's where I click over to window 2 and go to youtube, click on the video I want to post, copy the address in the little box at the top, then click back to window one and paste it in the box. Then click OK and that's it. It makes the video appear right in the post. Or, you can not click on the video icon and just copy and paste the address for the video into your post and it will appear as a link we can click on. Here's examples of both, same video (just for example, I don't really think anyone will watch both. )
Inserted through the icon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJV_HDmN5-w That's my Jagdpanther with the Asiatam metal lower and the seriously upgraded smoke (thanks to Normand), it came as the hundred dollar all tan HL, painted the camo myself (or tried to ). Had a little trouble getting it to fire for a second there.
And here's what it looks like if I just copy and paste the address without using the video icon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJV_HDmN5-w
Second, posting videos is pretty easy. I usually start with at least two windows open so I can click back and forth. In window one I'm writing my post, I click on the video icon, right next to the one you use to post photos. One of those gray boxes appears and tells me to insert the url for the video. That's where I click over to window 2 and go to youtube, click on the video I want to post, copy the address in the little box at the top, then click back to window one and paste it in the box. Then click OK and that's it. It makes the video appear right in the post. Or, you can not click on the video icon and just copy and paste the address for the video into your post and it will appear as a link we can click on. Here's examples of both, same video (just for example, I don't really think anyone will watch both.
)Inserted through the icon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJV_HDmN5-w That's my Jagdpanther with the Asiatam metal lower and the seriously upgraded smoke (thanks to Normand), it came as the hundred dollar all tan HL, painted the camo myself (or tried to
). Had a little trouble getting it to fire for a second there. And here's what it looks like if I just copy and paste the address without using the video icon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJV_HDmN5-w
04-11-2015, 06:34 AM
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Sorry, I should have clarified... it's not the posting that is the problem, it's making videos. I've never used youtube or saved a video from my phone (my only video camera). I'll figure it out, thanks. And yeah I saw the mod. I'm ok w/it as it is.
Bigger problem is described in my first post. Instead of firing normally the cannon recoil seems to wind up when I shoot, like it's an airsoft gun. And I yes the Torro setup seems identical to the stock taigen electronics.
So I'm not sure if there is maybe a switch somewhere on the unit or if I need to do something else to switch it from airsoft to IR operation.
Bigger problem is described in my first post. Instead of firing normally the cannon recoil seems to wind up when I shoot, like it's an airsoft gun. And I yes the Torro setup seems identical to the stock taigen electronics.
So I'm not sure if there is maybe a switch somewhere on the unit or if I need to do something else to switch it from airsoft to IR operation.
04-11-2015, 06:38 AM
#12
I think we just crossed posts because I didn't see that last one of yours till I posted my last one. I'm kinda slow at this.
Glad the video was helpful. Did you see the one about the 360 motors? Those really help in the steel dual ratio gearboxes but they're still short on power. But, for $7 for a pair, including shipping, they might be worth a try. I'm about to order some more myself because I want to get an HL Abrams and I think they'll be perfect in that. Right now I have some in my ZTZ-99A and they work really good, but sometimes it doesn't have the power to supper spin on grippy carpet.
That's a great paintjob on the JP from rctank.de, and the work you did to the KV-1 looks first rate. I've seen those gearboxes and wondered how they are, I see it's aluminum for the sides, can you tell what the gears themselves are made of? Video of the KV-1 would be really cool, as I haven't yet seen those boxes in action. I know they're kinda pricey, but they look like really superior quality so I wouldn't expect them to be cheap. How bad were the shipping rates from over there? Where are you again? I think you told me before what state you're in but I forget. Damn hippie brain. Doh!
Oh yeah, I find that Lubriplate or any quality white lithium grease works really well on steel gears. CRC even makes it in a spray can but it's kinda messy so I just spray it in a jar and apply with a brush.
Glad the video was helpful. Did you see the one about the 360 motors? Those really help in the steel dual ratio gearboxes but they're still short on power. But, for $7 for a pair, including shipping, they might be worth a try. I'm about to order some more myself because I want to get an HL Abrams and I think they'll be perfect in that. Right now I have some in my ZTZ-99A and they work really good, but sometimes it doesn't have the power to supper spin on grippy carpet.
That's a great paintjob on the JP from rctank.de, and the work you did to the KV-1 looks first rate. I've seen those gearboxes and wondered how they are, I see it's aluminum for the sides, can you tell what the gears themselves are made of? Video of the KV-1 would be really cool, as I haven't yet seen those boxes in action. I know they're kinda pricey, but they look like really superior quality so I wouldn't expect them to be cheap. How bad were the shipping rates from over there? Where are you again? I think you told me before what state you're in but I forget. Damn hippie brain. Doh!
Oh yeah, I find that Lubriplate or any quality white lithium grease works really well on steel gears. CRC even makes it in a spray can but it's kinda messy so I just spray it in a jar and apply with a brush.
04-11-2015, 06:43 AM
#14
The first thing I would try for the cannon problem is reversing the three pin plug on the bottom of the upper hull next to the 8 pin. If that's backwards it will do strange stuff.
I have diagrams of both airsoft and IR wiring systems for Taigen so let me know if they might help.
I have diagrams of both airsoft and IR wiring systems for Taigen so let me know if they might help.
04-11-2015, 06:45 AM
#15
Another thing I thought about trying is using the turret rotation in the JP to make the TC move. It's really just a motor controller so you should be able to hook up a motor and make him turn back and forth. I bet Rex knows how to do that already.
Right now when you move the left stick right or left it just gives noise, right?
Right now when you move the left stick right or left it just gives noise, right?
04-11-2015, 08:50 AM
#16
- what is the gear ratio of those gearboxes
- what type of motors are assembled (what rpm at 7,2V with no load)
- are similar gearboxes for Tamiya IS-2 also available?
http://etoarmour.com/product_detail.php?productID=S03
- what type of motors are assembled (what rpm at 7,2V with no load)
- are similar gearboxes for Tamiya IS-2 also available?
http://etoarmour.com/product_detail.php?productID=S03
JS is like Panther/JP, waiting some special work on the gears, and the JS will take some interesting mounts from first look. However, the gears should be ready late next week so I can get back to making the Panther/JP system and start on the JS. Next will be the Hooben T55.
04-11-2015, 09:52 AM
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The reduction for the KV is 100:1 and the motor is 19000 no load RPB.
JS is like Panther/JP, waiting some special work on the gears, and the JS will take some interesting mounts from first look. However, the gears should be ready late next week so I can get back to making the Panther/JP system and start on the JS. Next will be the Hooben T55.
JS is like Panther/JP, waiting some special work on the gears, and the JS will take some interesting mounts from first look. However, the gears should be ready late next week so I can get back to making the Panther/JP system and start on the JS. Next will be the Hooben T55.
Is it possible later to chanage motors /by user/ - is motor pinion removable ?
04-12-2015, 08:26 AM
#20
04-19-2015, 07:51 PM
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I owe you guys some more info - have been very busy lately - might be able to get some videos or at least more pictures this week. Sorry about that.
A couple of things in the meantime -
1) If anyone is looking to fit an ETO gearbox to their Torro/Taigen KV1/KV2, I am happy to provide a detailed explanation of how I did it. Please PM me.
2) I put my IBU2 Pro into the Jagdpanther, and I have to say - the Ibu2 really shines in this application as compared to the KV2. I think the JP sounds are much better, and the driving adjustments were much needed. I am really enjoying the JP now, despite some challenges that still need to be addressed. Turning is extremely difficult in this tank w/the underpowered motors and low-resistance of the "dual-ratio" gearboxes.
3) So I came up w/an idea about addressing the JP turning - Maybe I go back to the 3:1 gearboxes and just add overpowered motors to them. Anyone run 12v motors? I have a pair of BaneBots RS395 motors that are similar in size to a Speed-400 type. They are 12v, and looks like about 40% more torque on paper than 7.2v 380's. I can slow down the speed using the IBU2 (and IBU allows for 3s Lipo's for 12v motors) - so I wonder if this combo will be enough to overcome the gearing of the 3:1s?
4) Working on the Arduino/FPV Tiger1. Have had some challenges but progress is looking good. It drives. Video works. Need turret controls next. Will report full description w/pics etc when it is mostly done. This is going to be a cool vehicle.
A couple of things in the meantime -
1) If anyone is looking to fit an ETO gearbox to their Torro/Taigen KV1/KV2, I am happy to provide a detailed explanation of how I did it. Please PM me.
2) I put my IBU2 Pro into the Jagdpanther, and I have to say - the Ibu2 really shines in this application as compared to the KV2. I think the JP sounds are much better, and the driving adjustments were much needed. I am really enjoying the JP now, despite some challenges that still need to be addressed. Turning is extremely difficult in this tank w/the underpowered motors and low-resistance of the "dual-ratio" gearboxes.
3) So I came up w/an idea about addressing the JP turning - Maybe I go back to the 3:1 gearboxes and just add overpowered motors to them. Anyone run 12v motors? I have a pair of BaneBots RS395 motors that are similar in size to a Speed-400 type. They are 12v, and looks like about 40% more torque on paper than 7.2v 380's. I can slow down the speed using the IBU2 (and IBU allows for 3s Lipo's for 12v motors) - so I wonder if this combo will be enough to overcome the gearing of the 3:1s?
4) Working on the Arduino/FPV Tiger1. Have had some challenges but progress is looking good. It drives. Video works. Need turret controls next. Will report full description w/pics etc when it is mostly done. This is going to be a cool vehicle.
04-20-2015, 06:07 AM
#23
Yea as I mentioned before the dual ratio will be kinda meh until the correct ones are released with bearings and upgraded motors hence the delay on our side releasing them. I was not happy with the steel gears and bushings so I had the molds redone again. The ones with bearings will make a world of difference.
I am very interested in the Arduino project, have you looked at starting with the APM rover project first? A lot of code is already worked out, the hardware is cheap, and there are lots of addons like bluetooth, 2 way telemetry, gps support (dual gps and compass actually), and plenty of I/O for something like a sound card. I've got one in one of my tanks actually, I just have been really tight on time and I still want to do a lot with it.
hence the delay on our side releasing them. I was not happy with the steel gears and bushings so I had the molds redone again. The ones with bearings will make a world of difference. I am very interested in the Arduino project, have you looked at starting with the APM rover project first? A lot of code is already worked out, the hardware is cheap, and there are lots of addons like bluetooth, 2 way telemetry, gps support (dual gps and compass actually), and plenty of I/O for something like a sound card. I've got one in one of my tanks actually, I just have been really tight on time and I still want to do a lot with it.
04-20-2015, 06:22 AM
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Erik, you've mentioned APM before and I never understood what you were referring to. I did some googling and found this autonomous rover project... http://ardupilot.com/
I had not seen this before. Looks really interesting. Did not consider this, because I didn't know about it. Right now the Tiger is drivable, and just need to work out the turret controls. I ordered a motor driver this weekend to accomplish this.
I think that with the Arduino mega, a Dimension Engineering Sabertooth 2x12 driving the gearbox motors, and this new adafruit motor drver - I think we'll be able to get everything working without too much difficulty. I have some experience programming, so i'm not too worried about the code.
To get the tank driving only required a couple of lines of code after adding a standard pin interrupt and RC control libraries I found online. (Another poster here converted a Leo to arduino and that helped point me in the right direction).
So anyway - autonomous might be for another project down the road. Thanks for the heads up.
Also - I sent you an email about some spare parts for the Tiger, KV, and Jagdpanther. Please PM me if you didn't get it.
Thanks!
I had not seen this before. Looks really interesting. Did not consider this, because I didn't know about it. Right now the Tiger is drivable, and just need to work out the turret controls. I ordered a motor driver this weekend to accomplish this.
I think that with the Arduino mega, a Dimension Engineering Sabertooth 2x12 driving the gearbox motors, and this new adafruit motor drver - I think we'll be able to get everything working without too much difficulty. I have some experience programming, so i'm not too worried about the code.
To get the tank driving only required a couple of lines of code after adding a standard pin interrupt and RC control libraries I found online. (Another poster here converted a Leo to arduino and that helped point me in the right direction).
So anyway - autonomous might be for another project down the road. Thanks for the heads up.
Also - I sent you an email about some spare parts for the Tiger, KV, and Jagdpanther. Please PM me if you didn't get it.
Thanks!