edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

Just as I was settling in for the DAK seasonal slump (we don't do much in the summer here in AZ) several projects seem to have found their way to my bench that I never intended.... My good pal Artie is a Craig's List and ebay hound. A few months back he found and estate sale of two Tamiya tanks in Phoenix and we split those for a very modest price. My half became the first completely STOCK Tamiya Sherman I ever had. Well, last monday, he found another one that I can't give all the detail out or many of you may come out here just to strangle us.

One of the pieces that ended up in my lap is an M50 conversion based on a clutch steer Sherman. Missing the gun and mantlet but still quite a looker.... The mods are scratch built and the kit is a good basis for a FO conversion to add a wingman to my M51. Off we go to the parts box....

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edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

Process begins with a teardown of course, just a quick look at the glacis, the original owner attempted a small hatch conversion but didn't modify the plate to 60 degrees. M50s were based on many models of Sherman so the early hatch isn't wrong but I will leave this alone for now. even though it is a bit wonky.

Suspension is old and needs to be updated so I will essentially swap it for a boneyard HVSS hull I have and move on... The road wheel rubber is dried and cracked and the tracks are old school metal. All have replacements in my spares. Anybody want a clutch steer HVSS hull?

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Max-U52

Do you think that HVSS could be refurbished and reused? Maybe on an HL Sherman?

Max-U52

Ain't it amazing the stuff you find on craigslist? I just saw one of those $50 1/24th Abrams with the silver pistol controller and the guy wants $125 for it!!! Maybe that's why his ad has been up for two months now?

Great score on that Sherman, can't wait to see what you do with it.

RichJohnson

I dont think any small hatch shermans ever made it to hvss, even with the Israilies. That would be cool to see.

What is wrong with the older suspension? Im getting an old computerized tamiya sherman that seems good but the rubber is cracking. Im going to dump the cheasy bevel gear direct drives and get modern tamiya boxes.

That is a heck of a score. Nice modeling. Might be cool to move that hull over to a HL or Mato chasis.

RichJohnson

I dont think any small hatch shermans ever made it to hvss, even with the Israilies. That would be cool to see.

What is wrong with the older suspension? Im getting an old computerized tamiya sherman that seems good but the rubber is cracking. Im going to dump the cheasy bevel gear direct drives and get modern tamiya boxes.

That is a heck of a score. Nice modeling. Might be cool to move that hull over to a HL or Mato chasis.

tomhugill

Wrong they did....

tomhugill

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-c...4_r0037_01.jpg

the Israelis converted the early M50s with the vvss to the hvss to cure the overloading issues.

tomhugill

The old Tamiya Shermans have pop on wheels, no bearings or bushes just plastic on plastic contact which isn't ideal.

Tanker 10

So in trying to learn, what is the difference between the M50 and M51? Other than the obvious muzzle brake. Thank you

edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

75mm gun based on Panther gun in the M50, using the old 75mm turret with mods. A variety of hulls were used.

105mm gun based on same but scaled up, installed in T-23 Turrets. Mostly on M4A1 hulls.

RichJohnson

Of course its one of Jock Littlefields. Ok. Surprised I didn't catch that when I reviewed his collection. Wish I could have afforded his Jumbo. It sold for 800K. I would have to sell my house to buy it, then live inside cause Ide be homeless.

Nice model any way.

I don't recall my DMD Sherman having bearings in any wheels when I built it in 98 or 99.

Tanker 10

Thank you.

mcovalsk

Read the overview of both articles
http://www.modelersite.com/en/2048/b...man-1-16-scale
http://www.modelersite.com/en/2040/b...kit-1-16-scale

MAUS45

Tamiya didn't provide bearings them but later added them as a hopup kit. When other comany's like Impact and Kenny Kong started offering them, at a less expensive price, Tamiya may have dropped them as a hopup? You can still get them from Impact or Kenny Kong and install them even after assembly. Its the Tiger I and Panther that need to have them installed before the wheels are built.

tomhugill

I have been told it was only the full option Shermans had the bushes as standard but I don't have one

Tanker 10

Thank you mcovalsk for the links.

RichJohnson

So I am wondering, where did Israel get the HVSS "kits"
The US post war let the shermans linger and rust until they needed them then scrounged as many HVSS A1s and A3s for the US Army as they could for Korea, then paid a contractor to refit ( comparable to depot rebuild) and update the remaining Jumbos and 75 shermans for training and National Guard service etc. As far as I have read, I have never seen the US refit a VVSS to HVSS.

Also wonder why, with the success of the Jumbo, why they didn't slap more armor on all the rest of the shermans going to Korea, as well as Israel and other countries using the Sherman as a MBT.

tomhugill

The French collaborated to make the ishermans so I'd imagine they got the updated suspension from where where they got the a1 hvss tanks the m51 is based on.

Ex_Pat_Tanker

In the immediate post war period, the US kept the M4A3's for themselves, and got shut of the rest.
A lot of M4A1 76's were rebuilt and issued to the French Army under MDAP. Some M4A4's also were issued, and were later rebuilt with the radial engine for commonality (see M4A4T).
M4A3 75(w)'s were up-gunned to 76mm and sent to Yugoslavia and Pakistan. (Oddball's tank is a Yugo M4A3 76mm up-gun)
Canada got the left over M4A2's, rebuilt to HVSS standard for training purposes. ('Fury' is an M4A2E8 from this period)
Most of the Commonwealth Firefly's ended up in places like Belgium.
Pretty sure the Isreali's were making their own parts for the HVSS conversions by the late 60's - their tracks are wider than the WW2 spec double pin T80's that Tamiya supplies.

Max-U52

I once heard a guy say that "Martin knows a lot about Shermans". To steal a line from James Caan, "That's an understatement of truly epic proportion.".

mcovalsk

Here you will find all the answer plus pictures showing IDF people cutting with torch HVSS suspension all over Europe.
http://www.sabingamartin.com/sherman1.html

edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

The Israeli capacity for scrounging, manufacturing, converting, simplifying and adapting is worthy of high praise all around. They took WHATEVER version of the Sherman they could get and adapted them or remanufactured them to make effective localized AFVs that suited their needs. My M50 kit is an homage to them and another key cog in my "Sherman Gun Tanks Collection." The only Hull type I haven't tackled yet is M4A4 and that will come soon.

The M50 I had wanted to do was the small hatch based on the M4A4 Hull with HVSS. Some turrets still had the Cheek armor on the right side. If I ever do the M60 Chilean with high Velocity gun…

For now I assemble every last spare part in my garage and plan for the future.

As per the Tamiya hull and suspension.. The older clutch steer gear box has to go. The older hull pan is a bit flimsy and lacks the mounting holes for new gearboxes, shorter idler brackets, and a few other detail. The actual trucks have press on bogie wheels that fall off a lot, and the sprockets have shorter teeth for the older tracks that are not as good as the new plastic ones. This is all moot as I have one remaining HVSS setup ready to rebuild from and old VVSS conversion and a set of Super Sherman MFU DMD I picked up from a club mate. I will leave the engine deck alone as a few m50s kept the Wright 975 power plant for a while.

My criticisms of the old suspension are based on my need for RC combat capability. We run these guys hard and "I DON'T WANNA DIE" to quote Arlo Guthrie. Below is my collection growing.

RichJohnson

Scrounging HVSS off any KO'd Sherman makes good sense. That makes sense over new HVSS kits being made when the US didn't even do that for the ones we had on hand. From what I was reading, the US Army only wanted the A3s but because they were so short they kept the A1 HVSS and utilized 75mm shermans for training until after Korea when the MDAPed all the 75s in storage and gave them away. Also, before that, many 75s were chopped and sold as "equipment" they cut the turrets off and modified the hulls and sold them as tractors and other weird stuff. There are still some around, IE the yarder seen on Ax Men show on History channel.

Max-U52

This guy used to have one, too, til he got popped for TUI (Tanking Under the Influence).



Seriously, though, I've never watched Ax Men but I'd sure like to see the surplus Sherman. I tried googling ax men vehicles images with no luck (did find some interesting photos of scantily clad Russian Babes holding axes, though). If you're a fan, Rich, maybe you could find a photo of the vehicle you mentioned? I'm assuming it's been customized for logging, sounds really interesting.