ausf

They're becoming a big player in the 1/16 RC game, I think it's only fair that they come under the same scrutiny that Tamiya and HL have endured.

Please correct anything that is inaccurate or biased. My goal isn't to do anything more than wrap my head around this stuff.

As I see it, Taigen has taken existing HL products, molds or producers and in some cases changed configurations. They have updated some things like the 360 turret, offered previous plastic items in metal, worked out gearboxes and offered better paint jobs than HL.

Where they really shine over HL is on quality control, bringing in parts and offering excellent after sale customer service, namely one person: Erik.

None of that is a bad thing.

I read a lot of requests for them to come out with stuff, or redesign this or that, but I don't think they are a big enough company to do that. Please correct me if I wrong about that. No one likes the T-34 hull connections, but as I understand it, that's HL's design. Adding metal housings, tapping for screws, hardware, etc is an expensive undertaking.

Again, that's not a bad thing.

Xion is engineering stuff. But you're paying for German engineering. Tamiya engineers stuff, but you're talking about a behemoth. Model companies research, measure, make molds, test, print decals, etc.

Taigen is hitting the sweet spot between 'crap shoot HL' entry level and hobby grade kits, but is still RTR toys, correct?

Again, nothing wrong with that, it's a good place to be and a good service to provide, provided the prices don't creep into the hobby grade realm, without hobby grade work behind it. Mato is making advances, but the price point reflects that.

Hobby grade doesn't mean unattainable by anything short of Tamiya. Darryl Turner is producing hobby grade stuff, as is Henntec, Schumo and a whole host of cottage businesses. It just means a level of materials a design that will be expected to work and last.

hiramekisama

I can see why Taigen is attractive to some people. But it just doesn't work for me.

I think the most fun part of this hobby is doing the modification and adding upgrades. I spend most of my time modding my tanks and much lesser driving them. Thus buying a henlong and mod it is the best option for me. On the other hand, if I want to buy a solid tank without doing much modification, I'd buy a Tamiya. A tamiya tiger cost about $200 more than a taigen tiger. For $200 dollars extra, I get top notch engineering and a pretty good electronic & sound system. Not to mention that tamiya is a brand name that everyone recognizes. It values stay and easy to resell.

I'd only buy a taigen tank if they revamp the electronics and make it better. You could add bells and whistles to it, but it doesn't change the fact it's still a crappy RX18.

Well, that's my opinion on Taigen. Don't chew me out too bad.

philipat

Ausf,

I think you've nailed it pretty well. I like HL or Taigen. It depends upon the tank. Keep in mind that I like my airsoft. So, I'll give a nod to Tamiya's solid engineering for the most part (upgrades and fixes still exist for Tamiya, too) and their great detail, but there's no airsoft.

Some of the Taigen tanks are fully upgraded or redesigned HL tanks. The Tiger is a good example of redoing the molds and offering all three variants (early, mid and late) with additional things like 360 turrets, recoiling airsoft (how cool will that be! ), metal suspensions and hulls, etc. The Taigen T-34 and Sherman also fall in that category.

Some of the Taigen tanks are nothing but HL tanks (smoke & sound version) with a slightly better paint job and Taigen's electronics (which are a step up from the RX-18...more durable, 2.4GHz, still proportional drive). They might or might not have metal tracks depending on the model you buy. Examples are their Pershing, Bulldogs, PzIII, PzIV, and Panthers. If you can find them on sale and wanted to stay with Taigen electronics, it's cheaper to get the Taigen for modifying than getting the HL. I looked hard at that option for my PzIV build. I went elsewhere because it was cheaper to buy the tank and electronics separately with the sales I found at the time.

Taigen could step up there game easily on a few of these. They already have the metal hulls and suspensions for the PzIII, StugIII, KV-1, KV-2, Panther, and Jagdpanther. Instead of selling repainted HL tanks (in those models), they should follow the T-34 lead and sell them with the upgraded hulls and suspensions.

I agree with your general description of where they sit in the market. Their top-end tank (upcoming Tiger I mid) at $500 (with radio, receiver, etc) comes in at a price near Tamiya's cheapest offerings (but don't include the radio or receiver). So, I see them in the middle. One real up-side to Taigen over Tamiya and HL is that they actually have a representative on the forums that interacts with the users. HL does not and I haven't seen it with Tamiya. I like what I've seen with Taigen and will stick with them for many things. Though, I'll still look at HL when it's more cost-effective to do so.

Max-U52

Jeff, your description is pretty accurate. The way I heard it (and this is strictly grapevine so accuracy is questionable at best) is that Heng Long is a family company (like Tamiya) and there was some kind of split and one member started Taigen. That definitely explains a lot of the similarities.

However, I do believe Taigen has some original molds, like the Sherman.

I'm not sure I'd call them RTR toys, though. Maybe high end toys, or entry level hobby grade. They do offer a lot of DIY upgrades and mods.

No one can dispute the excellence of the customer service at Imex, but keep in mind that Imex and Taigen are two separate entities. Imex offers a HUGE inventory besides just Taigen tanks. Just look around your LHS next time you're there, and you'll probably find the Imex brand on other stuff, like display cases and RC items besides tanks.

One thing I know for sure, Imex/Taigen has offered me a much better starting point than HL, and I seriously doubt I would be as deep into this hobby as I am without them. The increase in quality at the base level makes it much easier for me to concentrate on the details I enjoy the most, without the constant flaws and repairs necessary with most HL tanks, at a significantly lower initial cost than Tamiya (for my favorite German armor). I have as much invested in my favorite Taigen Tiger One as I would a Tamiya Tiger (if not more), but the original tank was only $200 and man have I had fun bringing the S33 Tiger up to the level it's at now.

Now if I could just get Imex to come up with some RC soft sided military vehicles!

Cruiser133

I appreciate the Taigen brand and the additional offerings they provide. I am impressed by the PZIII and STuG I have from them and would readily recommend them as a viable alternative to HL and Mato. My rule of thumb however is if Tamiya offers it, then that is the route I go. If they don't, then I look to others to fill that need and Taigen is always in the running to scratch that itch.

YHR

Taigen has Erik, and to me that is all that differentiates this brand from Heng Long. Erik is available to answer questions and supply service. So for people who need this sort of thing they have positioned themselves well. Take Erik out of the picture, and all you got is a Heng Long tank with Asiatam upgrades.

They would cease to exist if Heng Long did not supply parts to them, and for that reason I don't even think of them as another brand at this point. Very similar to the Walthersons European adventure except better executed by IMEX and Erik.


So Jeff I think you really nailed it.

ausf

Right, good points all around.

I didn't think of some of their offerings like the late and mid Tiger, but essentially, that's just cosmetic. So there's no real innovation happening.

Mato seemed to up the game with the Pz III hull by adding torsion bars and coupling with Clark for better electronics, but that's now well into Tamiya pricing.

Don't get me wrong, small companies can pull it off if they want to. There's one guy in HK that I did business with over the years. He started doing resin AM for 1/35 armor as a side line (his business was wedding dresses). He eventually did well enough with the AM to pull off starting up a model kit company. He's only released a few so far, but they are excellent. Injection styrene, PE, decals, artwork, instructions, all top notch. As a matter of fact that Zundapp I posted a while back regarding mud was his kit. His stuff certainly blows away the Tamiya static offerings in comparison and we're talking a kit that sells for under $20.

That's the only way you're going to get the British and other variants we all ask for besides the same old rehashes. I guess I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something here with Taigen. They seem to pop up in the same conversation as Tamiya, but are really worlds apart. And that's not Tamiya worship, Xion can be used interchangeably. But who else is coming out with new kits?

Dan, you're spot on. If Erik gets a better offer and moves on, Taigen probaly collapses in the US market place.

ausf

That's an interesting bit of info, I never heard that regarding HL.

Tamiya isn't really a 'family' business, just privately owned. They were a family business when they made wood ship kits right after the war, but once the son broke into styrene injection, they were on their way to becoming a multinational monster in the modeling world.

In terms of toy/hobby description, yeah, it's a grey area. I guess I see hobby grade as more of a commitment. Horizon hoby sells a bunch of $100 planes and helis that come with Txs (RTF). They are excellent, cheap and a great entry into RC flying, but really are toys. You either crash and decide the hobby is too frustrating, or you keep pushing and decide to take the next step. Hobby is the next step with dual rates, expo, flaps, LG, etc. Just painting the same $100 RTF plane better and charging more isn't the next step to learning how to fly.

YHR

I am hoping that Taigen go the same route as Mato did. Reinvest, and begin producing their own stand alone tanks. However if there truly is a relationship somewhere between Heng Long and Taigen, then what we might be seeing is just a Marketing tactic, and the symbiotic relationship between the two will remain. i.e For every Taigen sold Heng Long makes money, and both parties might be totally happy with this model.

Again, I think Taigen is marketing well and they are filling a need in North America. That being service and promotion of RC tanks, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Max-U52

Again, I think I should point out that Taigen isn't doing anything in North America, it's Imex. Imex sells Taigen tanks, but that isn't their entire business. The Imex Model Company is what's really making tanking better for all of us, they just happen to be selling Taigen tanks. Taigen has nothing to do with the terrific customer service we enjoy, that's all Imex (Erik, to be specific). That's why when I talk about my own tanks, I usually make sure to name them as Imex/Taigen, because Imex takes a good tank, the Taigen, and takes it to the next level with their fantastic commitment to customer service and support. And Jeff is 100% right that if Bill ever gets so foolish as to let Erik get away his company will take a HUGE hit in North America.

Hope you're hearing this Bill. You should make sure Erik ALWAYS has fresh cookies at his desk.

YHR

Good point Gary. It is IMEX and their distributing that is making the inroads, not Taigen. Taigen is just benefiting from Erik

Crisaman

Dear friends are you sure that Taigen and Imex are two separate companies. I scoured the internet and did not find any instance they are two separate companies. I think Taigen is the brand that Imex give for the products they buy from the same suppliers that provide for HL. With better finishing, better specs and better quality control. I could be wrong.

iroanyikey

I'd only buy a taigen tank if they revamp the electronics and make it better.

Chariot1

I have the Taigen Sherman, and I have to say that Everything worked great right out of the box. And the price fits my limited budget. The only thing I would like to change is the sound because it sounds a little tinny to me. Mods to the body can easily be done if you have a good set of drill bits. I like the weight, and it is more than powerful enough for me. I go way back with Tamiya, having built the Frog, and Grasshopper off road vehicle kits many years ago. They were pricey then too.

ausf

This was the impression I had as well. I seem to remember that props were given to Erik for the directions included with Taigen.

Max-U52

We'll have to wait for Erik or Bill to chime in to be sure, but I'm 99% certain they're two separate companies. The Imex Model Company is in Brooksville, Florida, and the way I understand it, Bill buys tanks from Taigen, has boxes printed with the Imex logo, and sells them to us. The instructions you find that were done by Erik won't be found in a Taigen tank you buy in Europe, like the new Jagdtigers. We've all seen video of the Jagdtiger as it was released in Europe, and I'm fairly sure that tank won't say Imex on the box. And it's not just instructions, they also have different gearboxes in the Imex Jagdtiger, the European models have zinc while Imex is steel. I look at Imex kinda like the old Yenko cars (Chevelles, Camaros, etc). Yenko got special cars from the Chevy factory and added his own speed stuff and logos, and I think that's kinda what Imex does with Taigen Tanks.

Max-U52

I think they're working on that (I hope, I hope).

It would be great to see Imex offer a package like the Mato/Clark, with a hobby grade TX and a better board.

Crisaman

The Jagdtiger is manufactured by Torro or not?

ausf

Just to be clear, this isn't meant as a Taigen bashing thread, just trying to get a handle on what the deal is.

Any suppliers/importers etc into the RC tank hobby are a good thing.

ausf

Yeah, but when every effin' Chevelle frame rotted and cracked under the driver's door who got screwed? Answer: the poor idiot like me. Sorry, but I'm bitter. I used to restore 60's Impalas and worked my way up to landing my holy grail, a '66 Malibu SS ragtop. Was planning rails off resto on it only to find that frame and every single Chevelle frame up to '79 cracked in the same spot. At least just selling the hubcaps and seats were enough to recoup my total investment, but damn, I wanted to build that car.

Crisaman

I also like the Taigen. Even if I prefer more modern armour. I'm waiting anxiously for the arrival of their M1A2 Abrams.

Max-U52

You're right, the Jagdtiger is a Torro, like the King tiger, which is just more evidence that Imex is a separate company. They buy tanks from Torro and Taigen and resell them. I think Imex is kind of like a distributor, and the dealers actually sell most of the tanks.

Come on, Erik, explain this stuff so I can stop guessing!

Imex-Erik

· Yes we are a big enough company to produce our own products and are ACTIVELY working on a TON of new stuff. All of the electronics including but not limited to the motherboard are due for an upgrade. This also includes sound It takes a long time to produce a product with good quality (a lot of the time I reject parts. I may be the reason for some delays but it’s for a reason!) and to be backwards compatible. This is a very important issue for us as making and upgrading parts shouldn’t exclude our current customer base. Trust me here; BIG changes will be made in the future.
· Sometimes rehashes are necessary. All of us here or most of us has a Tiger, but our biggest sellers and the most requests are the Tigers so the market will always have a pull on us, but do not fear... I am always pushing for new stuff and this will be the continuing trend. I only wish I could announce a few things to you to prove this, but until they are on the production line I am wary of releasing details. I am always listening and passing on info about what is wanted and requested from not only you guys but our hobby shops as well. I periodically ask them what tanks people are looking for, what is asked for, and what they would like to see. The Sherman was actually in production for a long time before Fury, we knew it was going to come; I just had to keep quiet
· Molds are getting more complex and we are learning more and more with each design. Future models will have a lot more of my input as well as future parts. Remember the Abrams is still being worked on... there was a small delay but for a great reason. More on that in the future after the JT releases. I can leak a bit more info then without getting in trouble.
· Hobby grade RC- Don't worry. This is at the top of my list. I want to do it right and with good quality. It takes a while and I personally apologize as I'm sure I am at fault for so many corrections and modifications, but I do it for you guys.
· Other military models are an option, but the tanks are doing very well atm. This isn't to say we are not interested or have stopped looking, but are concentrating on the tanks for a bit. We have some surprises as I've said way too many times already for you guys.
· Please remember guys that we are a fairly new entry into the RC tank game. We have only been operating for a few years but in my opinion have the fastest growing potential. In just a few years we have been around we have established a pretty decent section of the RC Tank market, produced some pretty nice tanks, offer great customer service (or the best I can at least!!), and are expanding our inventory rapidly. Design to production times have shrunk as well.
· Soon Taigen will be something very different.... This will be good but will take some time to accomplish. A lot of this change is due to the feedback I have received here at Taigen and some will be things bossman and I both want to do. We have dug our feet in and we plan on going nowhere
· Also I would like to personally apologize for the lack of my presence on the forums over the last few weeks. As each release gets closer no matter what it is I get very busy with promos, testing, advertisements, and of course dealing with our customers and dealers. As mentioned above I do work for IMEX (bossman will sort that out for you guys) and my job also includes my same duties for Taigen but for IMEX as well. Taigen is getting ready to release new gearboxes (which took me forever to get right!), 360 kits (which I made all new English instructions for everyone on all 4 types), the Tiger 1 mid version (sorry bossman, I'm taking credit for the idea for this one hehe), the airsoft recoiling unit (I've been working on that one for a LONG time), the Jagdtiger, and a special new item that was sent to me a few days ago that will blow you all away... literally Also IMEX has new DC power station chargers (dc output, charger, balancer, etc), block sets (I also do some media here), and more coming out that I am responsible for as well. Sometimes this kills my RCU time, this is also the reason I am not on many forums as I am so very short on time. So please forgive me guys and always remember if you don’t hear a response from me in 24-48 hours I missed it and PLEASE bother me again so I can help!
· I have no current plans to leave IMEX/Taigen. I am pretty happy with my current position and was even offered a position at a top RC company when I was at Toledo during our last trade show, but once again I am happy where I am at. Things will change guys, remember I’ve only been here 2 years, but in those two years I would like to think I helped put this company on the correct track that our customers want. One of my first ideas was the recoiling airsoft unit, it does take time but I promise I’m listening and watching. So Taigen is here to stay.

Bossman will chime in later tonight, he is out on a small local business trip. He will explain a bit more about IMEX/Taigen/Torro and the history straight from him. Thanks for the understanding guys and once again sorry for the lack of response on RCU! I do have a small surprise though... the V2 smoke units are in stock and ready to ship starting NOW! They are still the same size and shape as the previous ones but now they smoke a lot better Video coming later today or Monday. Also the new Waltersons figures just arrived, I will have them online next week!

MAUS45

Thanks Erik, great update and conformation on where Taigen is headed!!!

ausf

Yep, Thanks for the info.

I have to admit though, when I first read V2, I thought (hoped) IMEX was re-releasing the model kit...