YHR

I see Mato has released their get sets with all steel and bearings on all shafts. These were very good gears when they were brass, The bearings will make them that much better, and the steel will make them durable. Also these gears are very good for narrow hulls as the motors nest over each other.

http://www.matomart.com/prodview.php?p=3354

philipat

Which one of these will work with the HL PzIV? I assume the one for the HL Tiger. The one for the PzIII seems to be for their metal PzIII...not sure how that translates to the HL PzIII.

YHR

I don't think there is any inherent difficulty in setting the PZIII gears in a PZIV. I have only ever had one PZiV and I sold it so I don't remember or know if there are any issues.

Strato50

I'd be concerned about the mounting plates.. unless of course these gears can be bolted directly to regular HL standoffs.

Otherwise you'll have to cut the plate. They might make them for different HL models, worth asking.

strmnd54

I think the main concern is: Will these fit into a Panzer IV once you rise the front sprockets by about 3 mm; and will the speed be the same or slower than the standard 3:1 H.L. gearboxes?

Tanque

Hopefully the quality of the shaft rod they use is up to the gears and bearings it isn't a sloppy fit.

Jerry

Roboticus_Prime

Here's a link for us South of the border.

http://www.matomart.com/prodview.php?p=3353

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Bearings on those shafts are a waste of time - the main failure area is the small contact surface between the gears and the shaft.
By design the gears must rotate freely on each of the 2 middle shafts because each pair of gears run at a different speed. The small diameter of the shaft leads to high wear rates on the gear inner diameters, and/or jammed gears / bent shafts when the gear mesh gets sloppy (or the output shaft stalls but the motor keeps going).

Additionally If they are sintered like the Waltersons ones we discussed a while back here, then they will suffer the same problem of the final output gear fracturing when the grub screw is tightened - you can not avoid this with sintered parts, as their core strength is poor. Like Waltersons, they will have to beef up that final gear to reduce the stresses.

Panther F

Weird that there are bearings on ALL of the shafts while the gears DO "spin" independently on the shaft.

(at least the gearboxes I have do)




Jeff

Max-U52

I'll bet the steel gears are at least three times as loud as the brass.

Panther F

That's why it's important to mix a softer material (like nylon or plastic) on the non-loaded gears to keep the noise down.




Jeff

YHR

This is all true. Unlike the Heng Long / Taigen stock gears, this set up has free wheeling gears on the shafts, so this is a good observation. Perhaps at least two of these bearings aren't really required at the stamped tower and would be better served in the gear. As matter of fact the trouble I have had with the brass gears is that they heat up and then bind themselves to the shaft and it is game over. I have spent extra time with some emery cloth polishing this interface to prevent this from happening. So good catch from the mechanical engineer in the group. Bearings in a muffler don't help much either

YHR

Agreed. Steel at the torque gears where it is needed and nylon everywhere else would be great. Sometimes I regret tossing all those nylon gears I thought were junk!!!!! The old Mato nylon gears in the plastic enclosed towers are still running in one of my Sherman's, and the darn thing is quiet.

Ex_Pat_Tanker

I still have quite a few - I can assure you that the final drive gear is usually the point where they fail over time - not sure if its all the oil they soaked them in (Nylon doesn't need a whole lot of lube) causing the gear to swell and split, or if its moisture in the air (Nylon absorbs water readily), or just too much of a force fit between the shaft and the gear. The shame of it is that the teeth are usually man enough for the job, more so than the pot metal ones - and if you have a smaller tank like a Pz3 or a Sherman and you keep the weight down by not going for metal tracks etc, then they are quite serviceable until that final gear splits.

Tanque

Ooooo yeah I didn't realize anyone was using sintered gears, bad idea. They look nice but no the strength needed isn't there. I've never seen the Watterson's
gearboxes so never knew about the sintered parts but if the new Mato units are following this path they are to be avoided.

I said it up top: if the shaft rod (s) are a sloppy fit to any of the parts then even any top notch parts are wasted. A quality made unit is just going to cost more,
there's no escaping it. Like anything else you get what you pay for. If the gears and other parts are removable invest in some quality metric shaft rod ( assuming
the holes of the other parts are correct and not oversize) and you could improve the performance and sound substantially. Slop is not your friend.

Jerry

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Sintering is good when you only need surface hardness, not core strength. Its a cheap way of making complex 2D shapes that do not require a lot of shear strength with cheap tooling.
Examples in my line of work include valve seats and tooth belt pulleys - If you have to fully machine the part, then it is way more expensive to make than pouring powder in a die, pressing it, then cooking it in a Furness. I'm guessing this is why Mato (Taigen, etc) have moved from machined brass to PM 'steel'.

As Jerry points out, the sloppy fit of the Mato (and to a lesser extent the old Asiatam) gears is the number one contributor to this designs problems. Any slop reduces the unit area available to spread the load from the gear to the shaft that was already available, which accelerates the wear.

Honestly Dan - using emery cloth to polish those shafts is just reducing their diameter by a few Microns, and while it may make the shaft smoother in the short term, its still opening up the clearance between the shaft and gear - its not going to help the long term durability. In an old car you can run thicker oil once the bearings start to wear, in our toys this really isn't an option o.O

YHR

Well, as these tanks are not really running for days at a time, I am going to play the"Don't fix what aint't broke" card. Too many times I have rushed to fix a perceived problem in this hobby only to find out this leads to other issues, and I should have just run the stock stuff.

Mato Sherman Nylon gears as an example

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Fantastic product - only seen them fail once - in a Sherman running metal tracks...

Stay light and agile my friends

Tanque

Yeah it's funny you should mention the surface hardness thing. When I worked at Varian in the 1970 there was a metallurgist who paid our lab a visit every Wed. When he found out that I
had a 'thing ' for model tanks and I griped about how difficult it was at the time to get ( 1/10 scale ) tracks he suggested: "Why don't you have them made from sintered iron?"

I neverf followed up on it but always seemed like an idea of merit...

Jerry

kizwan

I have this gearbox for Tiger I but the metal plate is not one piece as advertised (product picture). Mine came with two separate metal plate for left & right gearboxes. I feel disappointed.

Perry S.

Hey Dan,
Just noticed you are coming up on your 10 year forum anniversary.
Congrats.

Perry

philipat

Sorry to hear that. The set that I got for my PzIV came with a plate that was just one piece. Might want to ask Mato why it's different.

RichJohnson

Dont waste your time asking mato anything. If you do, wait at least 3 weeks for your reply.
imho, i have had two sets of those trannys and one was junk the other was just a tad better,
the gears wobble on their shafts off their rotation axis. The set screws on the motor pinions are jammed in tight and do not contact the motor shaft, the motor shaft is knurled and the pinion is just jamed on the shaft, the set screws do nothing. Every tranny spun pinion gear. I had to pull the pinions, get set screws out, flatten motor shaft and reinstall.
also, final drive gear set screws spin loose.
No where near taigen or tamiya quality.
If you want super low gears get taigen 4:1 or the set eto makes.

philipat

Taigen 4:1s would have been awesome, especially the steel ones. But, they didn't fit in the smaller space of the PzIV.

ETO sets look really nice. But, they cost a mint.

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

ETO boxes are the best you can buy and probably will last forever. I have a set in My Tamiya KT and it is a beast. Worth every penny.