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First tank choice

Old 12-14-2015, 12:34 AM
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Ksionc
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Red face First tank choice

Hi!

This is my first post, so i wanted to say Hello

I want buy my first tank, I'm completely new to this hobby, so any advice would be appreciated.

I'm looking for something of a 1:16 scale, that shoots BB's.
First I wanted a M4A3E8, But I could not find any 1:16 that shoots :/
So after looking around at what's available at the stores in my country I decided I wanted a Pershing (Super Pershing would be great )- i found a Heng Long one, and it looks quite decent.

And that's where the questions come in:
- there's a couple of versions of the HL Pershing 3838, 3838-1, 3838-1U, is there any significant difference between them other than smoke and metal parts?
- Is it worth to take the version with metal gears and tracks?
- I found a set of upgraded motors for HL, will I be able to install them without any problems, or do I need to change some parts? http://www.hayaltd.co.uk/Heng_Long_T..._12659225.aspx
- I found that some sellers say that their model has an upgraded electronics "MULTIFUNCTION Model:TK-RX 18 v6.0/7.0" what's the difference between the upgraded and "stock" one?

Are Heng Long tanks any good? Or should I look for a different manufacturer?

Cheers!
Old 12-14-2015, 01:32 AM
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Hi Ksionc - Welcome to the forum and the mad world of RC tanks - actually it's a great hobby and very fulfilling but can be frustrating, maybe expensive and time consuming but it's a hobby so mostly up to you. Just enjoy it and don't take it too seriously.

Now, with regard to your choice of starter tank. the M26 or snow leopard isn't a bad choice. I have one that I have modified a bit from stock and it runs okay on metal tracks. Like a lot of the HL models - they are not totally accurate and will need some modifications done to get them more correct. The M26 has a too short gun barrel which is one of the mods I corrected. their are a few issues which I've forgotten about now but to me they were not of interest so I left them as is. the RX18 is the standard HL MFU which replaced the RX13 & RX14 boards. The RX18 is a good MFU in my opinion and can do a lot but their are now other control boards and hobby grade radios on the market which you can upgrade to if desired.

Upgrading to metal parts is optional and you will get a lot of discussion on here about it. I have had a go at most of the upgrades and for me, it isn't necessary on all the models or desirable. The metal adds weight and puts strain on the drive train and will drain your battery quicker. You can fit better, lower ratio gearboxes that will give you more torque and slow your speed down but this may not be what you want on a modern tank. they are also noisy and can drown out the speakers volume so you need to enhance the sound with a better speaker and amplifier etc.

So, I would go with stock (no metal) HL M26, Panther G, Sherman, Leopard or M1 abrams as the quality on these tanks is much better now from HL . You can then upgrade as you desire and search the forum - ask for advice as you go.

Good luck and happy tanking

CaptB
Old 12-14-2015, 02:12 AM
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Ksionc
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Thank You for answering

As for the "frustrating and expensive" - I'm an airsoft player atm. making custom rifles, so I got used to frustrating and expensive

So the RX18 is a normal part in every HL Pershing? I thought this is some real upgrade part, as some sellers don't mention it, and others bold it out

Is there any place i can buy a longer barrel, or do I have to make one myself?

As for the upgraded motors: will they work? Or do I have to upgrade something before putting them in - as they stated in the store "it can burn my circuit board".

How how long do the metal track last vs the plastic ones?

Edit: What is the stock gear ratio in HL tanks?

Last edited by Ksionc; 12-14-2015 at 02:46 AM.
Old 12-14-2015, 04:09 AM
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If the tank doesn't say smoke and sound (S&S) it probably doesn't have the RX-18.

For other parts, I would give Erik at Imex a call. He can sell you the very nice steel gearboxes, metal tracks, and sprockets for a good price. He's often on this forum, and will probably drop in. Plus, Imex/Taigen is stateside, so shipping won't be bad.

If you plan on upgrading the suspension to metal, tankarmy.com has been the better place for me to buy from. A warning, the metal suspension and wheels are heavy, and the tank will need to be braced, so it won't bend and throw tracks.

Feel free to read through my Pershing thread. It was also my first tank, and it's my favorite.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...-pershing.html
Old 12-14-2015, 06:17 AM
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Now that I've been up for a while and had my coffee, here's some more info.

You might also consider Taigen's version. They come with the basic metal upgrades (tracks, sprockets, zinc gears) and Taigens 2.4GHz control unit.

Right now they have two options:

New:
http://www.imex-model.com/product/TA...le.html?cid=89

Scratch & dent:
http://www.imex-model.com/product/CT...29.html?cid=89

The prices on the site are list prices, and you wont pay that. If you call 1-800-458-5785 or 352-754-8522 and ask for Erik, tell him the folks at RCU sent ya and he'll hook you up. The best part is if you have any problems, you can just give him a call and he'll set it right.
Old 12-14-2015, 07:03 AM
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Hi, and welcome. First, what country are you in?

If you want the M26, definitely do as Chase advises and call Erik, but that's really just best if you're in the US or Canada.

I have the Imex/Taigen M26 Pershing and it's a great tank right out of the box, and the possibilities for mods and detailing are endless. Given the choice between the Heng Long and the Imex/Taigen I'll take the Imex every time.
Old 12-14-2015, 07:10 AM
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I'm from Poland - I've checked the prices, and I can get a Heng Long Pershing 3838-1U (the one with smoke, metal tracks and gears) for 200$, and the basic version for 98$. I will stick to ordering the tank from Poland (the taxes and shipping would cost more than the model itself ) But I will most probably order all the parts from the US, as i don't see any at my local retailers

How hard it is to mod it in to a Super Pershing? Do You guys have a link to a step by step guide?

Last edited by Ksionc; 12-14-2015 at 07:25 AM.
Old 12-14-2015, 08:33 AM
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rctank.de has some good Pershing stuff.

http://www.rctank.de/24-GHz-US-M26-P...Metal-sprocket

http://www.rctank.de/M26-PERSHING-/-SNOW-LEOPARD

I would definitely get the 4:1 PRO steel gearboxes for the Pershing.

Tankarmy also has the metal shocks, and their international shipping isn't terrible.

http://tankarmy.com/heng-long-tank/i...khpq47nqdj77q5

Although I haven't modded a Super Pershing, yet, it's not too difficult. The basics are, a longer gun, spaced armor on the glacis and mantlet, stabilizer springs on the turret roof, trim the sand skirts, two piece loaders hatch, ballast box on the turret bustle, and the big one... T81 tracks. (kind of a long list now that I type it out lol) IMPACT are the only ones I've found that make the T81. The sprockets are made for Tamiya drive shafts, so they (or your HL drive shafts) will need to be modified to fit.

http://mitosal.com/M26Pershing.html

http://mitosal.com/1011.htm

There are several guys on this Forum who have built one (or many ), so you should be able to find them. Eddyk just did these:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...g-ibu2pro.html

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...ng-v2-0-a.html

There are also some more guys on http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk that have built them too.
Old 12-14-2015, 10:53 AM
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Heng Long Tanks are basic but are a massive improvement over the earlier products. As you are in Poland I would recommend
www.heng-long-panzer.de
I have dealt with them in the past and they are a good company with a wide range of Tanks and spares, they also supply "CLARK" control boards.
shaun.

Last edited by jarndice; 12-14-2015 at 03:09 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 03:54 PM
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The newer Heng Long Pershing is a better then the original offering in the fact it allows you to remove the wheels without having to drill through the plastic hubcaps or trying to split the glued wheels apart. However the tracks are not as good.

A stock Heng Long with Plastic gears is as good a place to start as any, You are going to want upgraded gearboxes so stay away from the boxes with 3 shafts, and upgrade to a 4 shaft box. For this reason I say buy the cheapest one you can find, that is labeled "smoke and sound" with the knowledge when it comes to gears you are going to be tossing them anyway, The lower gear ratio will make your tank run better, My advice is to change the gearboxes before you do anything else. Swap the gear boxes out and then just run the tank until you discover things that need upgrades. You might be surprised how little it has to cost you to have a tank that is fun to run.

Really ask around when it comes to control boards before rushing into anything. Play around with the basic set up and get a good understanding of all the mechanical electrical stuff in the tank. A complete understanding of the basics will set you up for success when you go the upgrade route.

Cheers

Dan

Last edited by YHR; 12-14-2015 at 03:58 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 04:22 PM
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Hi Ksionc.

I am new to tanks also (about Nov) and after scratching the surface, I decided I wanted to build my tank using the Taigen 3 in 1 Tiger kit (so not even close to what you are looking at) but, I wanted to say that you've come to the right spot to find information on just about anything you want to do with an RC tank.

I have been busy picking up a few parts and pieces (not included in the model version) and some specific modification parts I've discovered in my readings while looking for a painting scheme. So, the 3 in 1 introduces you to many of the upgrades one may look into as progressing (i.e. tank electronics, etc.) .

Everything that's been posted in your thread is great 100% right on.

Make sure to search the forum for your model and interests, cause it'll amaze you what goes on in the world beyond the starting block.

Someone mentioned in my intro thread that this was a money pit of a hobby and I can see how that is so - I haven't even started my build and I am thinking how a King Tiger might fit in as my "next" one LOL!!!

Good luck.

Terry
Old 12-14-2015, 10:21 PM
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Ksionc
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Thank You for all the tips, and for links to those stores, I didn't know there are so many options for those tanks

I'm looking at the prices right now, and i think I will go with the S&S version.
It costs 200$ and has metal tracks, smoke and that upgraded RX18 electronics, and from what I see, if I wanted to add metal tracks and the board later on i will pay more separately than buying it from the start. It would be 100$ for the basic tank, 75 Eur for metal tracks, 20 Eur for RX board and 17 Eur for smoke module - So i would end at 223$ + shipping + metal gears.

Will the RX18 work with this gearbox http://www.rctank.de/41-PRO-steel-ge...-motors/18000t ?

And another question - i see RX18 and RX18 2,4 Ghz electronics - is there a difference?

I'm sorry for so many questions, I get confused by the amount of available parts


"Someone mentioned in my intro thread that this was a money pit of a hobby" - I have just finished my new sniper rifle for airsoft - it cost me almost 1500$, and earlier I spent a lot of money on WH40K army, so I think that every hobby is an endless money pit


Edit: Or maybe I'll go with the basic one, and upgrade the electronics (just need to find one compatible with that Pro gearbox from rctank) and get the T-81 tracks... I hate having so many choices

Last edited by Ksionc; 12-14-2015 at 11:00 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 11:52 PM
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Yes there are two RX 18's. The one with the fm crystals gave pretty decent control, and is upgradable as it had a digital input point from the separate receiver. The 2.4 ghz has an internal receiver and does not allow for this option. I have little experience with the 2.4 ghz board, but have been told it does not give very good control. On a pure control aspect it is not as good as it's predecessor, but you get the convenience of 2.4 ghz technology and better range.
Old 12-15-2015, 12:04 AM
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Ksionc
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Ok - i made a step in (I think) the right direction.

I will get the version with smoke and RX18, but without the metal parts for 110$, and buy T-81 tracks and gearbox from rctank - only if someone could tell me if the RX will not burn when I connect the upgraded gearbox

Edit: can anyone tell what this does, and is it needed? http://www.rctank.de/HQ-US-Pershing-...metal-sprocket

Last edited by Ksionc; 12-15-2015 at 12:14 AM.
Old 12-15-2015, 04:19 AM
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any RX can burn. The V2 gearboxes (PRO's) make it unlikely. Some tips, before you install the gearboxes, slide a sprocket on each gearbox and check to see if they're easy to turn by hand. At this point, it is the easiest time to apply a dab of grease to each gear and spread it out by hand turning the gearboxes. Once everything is assembled, check turning the sprockets again before you try to drive. Make sure that it takes the same amount of force (There should be some resistance, but not much) to turn them. If you do grease the gears, you probably want to make some splatter guards to keep it off of the electronics.

Doing all of that should prevent frying the board. But if you do, the RX-18 is only $20

That link is for a track tensioning system. It's not really needed on the Pershing, as HL/Taigen modeled the Pershing's front suspension with the automatic tensioner.

Last edited by Roboticus_Prime; 12-15-2015 at 07:13 AM.
Old 12-15-2015, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ksionc
Ok - i made a step in (I think) the right direction.

I will get the version with smoke and RX18, but without the metal parts for 110$, and buy T-81 tracks and gearbox from rctank - only if someone could tell me if the RX will not burn when I connect the upgraded gearbox

Edit: can anyone tell what this does, and is it needed? http://www.rctank.de/HQ-US-Pershing-...metal-sprocket
If you are going for a 4 shaft gearbox, this will be easier on your electronics. What fries electronics is the amp draw when the motors get into some heavy lifting. The four shaft box will allow more torque at the driving wheel. This means the electric motors do not have to work as hard, and you will have less chance of stalling the motors. Typically it is a stalled motor that draws heavy amperage and causes the electronics to fry. Fried electronics are not limited to the RX18,. Lesson here is to ensure your running gear is running free and unobstructed. Something jammed in the tracks, or if the tank is pulling one side of the other means you should stop and investigate. Giving her more throttle and jamming it into reverse and forward will not fix this problem, and most likely will cause you another one.

I think you are going down the right route for a first tank. Also I think it is a good idea to study the electronics in a tank. Understand what each motor does and how it is hooked up electrically. It is really basic stuff. Each motor needs a positive and a ground. So take some time and learn how and where this power is coming from and what triggers it. Whether it is an RX18 or and IBU 2 they all do the same basic thing in supplying power to the on board electric motors Fully understand the electrical /Mechanical stuff on this first tank and it will lead to an enhanced experience when you choose to upgrade. Electronics components are unforgiving. You are very lucky if you get a second chance. So hooking up color coded wires without really knowing where each color terminates is a false hope type of thing, and like I mentioned, hoping it is hooked up right does not work well with electrical components.

Heng Long tanks use a common positive. Ie the elevation motor and airsoft motor share the same positive, and then have individual grounds to activate them. When you are upgrading to new electronics you have to understand this basic, Typically it involves isolating and giving each motor its own positive and will require some wire to be run. A lot of people run into trouble around this

So enjoy your tank and realize that it will take some maintenance and understanding of the electrical and mechanical aspect of this hobby to truly enjoy yourself. Too many times people let the credit card get ahead of the required skill level, and when that happens the value of this hobby to them can become an internal debate.

I have always found this forum to be helpful and active enough to always get an answer within hours of posting. There are many sticky threads at the top that cover just about every single issue you may have, but if you find yourself needing help, there are many members who will offer you that.

So enjoy

Last edited by YHR; 12-15-2015 at 07:10 AM.
Old 12-15-2015, 08:06 AM
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Words of wisdom from YHR - one further point which I regard as really important and has tripped me up on a few occasions is the build consistency of HL tanks. I have bought a Leo 2A6 and a King Tiger recently and both have the 8 pin connector which drives the turret functions wired back to front. This isn't a problem if the tank works okay, but when you come to troubleshoot and/or upgrade to a Clark board etc. then it can be really confusing as the colour coding of wires is reversed. Not a massive deal but to a newbie, I can imagine it causing all sorts of trouble and frustration. Also, some skill in soldering - particularly light AWG wires would be helpful and you will need to be able to read a basic circuit diagram.

Best of luck old chap!!

cheers

CaptB
Old 12-15-2015, 11:48 AM
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Capt I have experienced the reverse plug wiring as well. I think if you turn the cable around, this problem corrects itself. The last two Abrams I did had this issue. I thought it was necessary to repin, but it wasn't I just need to flip the cable around.
Old 12-15-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by YHR
I have always found this forum to be helpful and active enough to always get an answer within hours of posting. There are many sticky threads at the top that cover just about every single issue you may have, but if you find yourself needing help, there are many members who will offer you that.

So enjoy
That's what I like about this place People actually helping, even if i ask very basic questions, instead of bashing a "newbie"

Edit: Could You guys recommend a good speaker for an upgrade? I don't want it to be louder, just sound "more powerful"

Last edited by Ksionc; 12-15-2015 at 11:12 PM.
Old 12-16-2015, 10:57 AM
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Hi Dan, Yes I think flipping the 8 pin connector might work for some MFU's but not for the Clark board. If you look on the Clark Instructions it shows you the pin identification numbering relative to the socket on the board and the orientation slots. This is back to front when installing in (some) HL tanks and you do need to re-pin. If you consider this, together with the additional wire that needs to be added and the 2.2ohm load resistors, it can get confusing and it's easy to mis-wire. I'm on my 5th tank now with this problem. I will persevere with the Clark board though as once set-up, it is a major improvement. I've managed to fit a relay that switches on the smoker from the TX and also a movable MG via a TX controlled servo, so the clark board does open the use of other features which is nice.

Cheers

CaptB
Old 12-16-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ksionc
That's what I like about this place People actually helping, even if i ask very basic questions, instead of bashing a "newbie"

Edit: Could You guys recommend a good speaker for an upgrade? I don't want it to be louder, just sound "more powerful"
Aura, Vistron are good, but you need to build a box. Sometimes Micheals has prebuilt small wooden "jewelry" boxes. Without a lot of effort these can be turned into an enclosure. The stock sound will never be much good though, so the speaker won't help much.
Old 12-16-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainB
Hi Dan, Yes I think flipping the 8 pin connector might work for some MFU's but not for the Clark board. If you look on the Clark Instructions it shows you the pin identification numbering relative to the socket on the board and the orientation slots. This is back to front when installing in (some) HL tanks and you do need to re-pin. If you consider this, together with the additional wire that needs to be added and the 2.2ohm load resistors, it can get confusing and it's easy to mis-wire. I'm on my 5th tank now with this problem. I will persevere with the Clark board though as once set-up, it is a major improvement. I've managed to fit a relay that switches on the smoker from the TX and also a movable MG via a TX controlled servo, so the clark board does open the use of other features which is nice.

Cheers

CaptB
That is why it is a good idea to move to a hobby grade radio. There is so much more you can do with respect to animated projects or additional sounds.
Old 12-17-2015, 02:00 AM
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Ksionc
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What do you guys think about this shopping list:

- HL Pershing with smoke and sound

- 4.1 PRO STEEL GEARBOXES PERSHING M26 380 MOTORS/18.000T

http://www.rctank.de/41-PRO-steel-ge...-motors/18000t

- T- 81 Pershing tracks

http://mitosal.com/1011.htm

- M26 Pershing metal road wheels, idlers and suspensions

http://tankarmy.com/heng-long-tank/p...khpq47nqdj77q5

- M26 Pershing metal shock adsorbers with springs

http://tankarmy.com/heng-long-tank/p...khpq47nqdj77q5

- 360 deg rotation upgrade kit

http://tankarmy.com/heng-long-tank/p...khpq47nqdj77q5
Old 12-17-2015, 04:24 AM
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Hmm..........so you are going for the M26 with metal tracks and some upgrade options........is this wise for a complete newbie?..........you may not like this hobby and if the tank gives you some grief( highly likely) then the frustration kicks in. Also, you have spent quite a bit of dosh on a model by then...................... my advice would be to pick a standard M26 S & S and go with that. Have fun with it then decide on your upgrades - if any (not compulsory of course).

cheers


CaptB
Old 12-17-2015, 04:32 AM
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I want to get the stock S&S version, play with it and then upgrade - i just like to have all spendings planned out

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