Swedish Meatball

Hi all!

Some years ago I bought a Tamiya 56013 M4 Sherman Full Option kit, but I never found enough time to build it. So it has been laying unopened in it's box for years and I almost forgot about it. Recently I remembered the kit and thought that now might be the right time to dig in to this project. My original thought when I first got the tank, was to convert it into an Isreali Super Sherman. I had read Thomas Gannon's book about them and also seen someone make such a conversion (a piece of art). But now, maybe since Tamiya released their M51 Super Sherman kit, I feel I'd rather aim for something else.

So, I started to think about an Easy Eight conversion. The M4A3E8 (correct me if I'm wrong on the model) in the movie "Fury" is a good looking example. So my goal will be to get as close to that as possible.

This will be my first build, and I know It will be a challange. I appreciate any help I can get in finding suitable parts for making such a conversion.


Thank you,
Jonas

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Technically in the movie Fury is a M4A2E8 (but they never fought in US colours in any war - its an ex Canadian Forces training tank, circa late 1940's MDAP spec if memory serves).

My recommended (easiest) way to make an M4A3E8 - use the Tamiya chassis, get a Heng Long upper hull from their M4A3 105, and contact firenick on this board to obtain his resin turret kit and transmission cover. You'll have to do a little work if you want recoil on the main gun, and an oval loaders hatch (Nick's kit ships with the early style round hatch), but that combo of parts will get you most of the way to an anatomically correct M4A3E8.

If you want to do it on the cheap, then sub in the Mato M4A1 (76) turret, but that needs more work to make it look right. Again plenty of threads here will cover that - Fynsdad is a master reference for that one.

If you want to do the movie tank, then use the Tamiya kit with one of the above turrets and make your own engine deck - the A2 engine vent hatches are a little smaller than those on the A3, but the rear hull profile 'may' be identical between M4 and M4A2 (Ethan/Panther F, help with this one - I'm not too familiar with the A2's!?)

Also to add - I think Chris3 on this board is also offering a 76mm turret - if you are in the EU this may be cheaper, if not then firenick is your better option.

RichJohnson

Um, Im pretty darn sure she's an M4a3. Large engine deck grill kinda gives it away.

Here is my thread on using all Tamiya parts and a nick aguilar kit building an M4a3E8.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...ez8-build.html

edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

http://ww2live.com/sites/default/fil...rvices%201.jpg

That shot was the photo tank built on a FV 432 chassis. It is a mockup upper hull. There were two vehicles used for filming (i'm told) and one of those was an M4A2E8.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...75_634x372.jpg

You can see by the shorter rear plate that it is an M4A2

Panther F

Hey Jonas! Welcome!


It really depends on how far you are wanting to go with making the conversion, both skill and money wise.

A resin turret kit and rear deck will get you 75% there, but there are details that will send it over the fence. Nicks T23 turret is a split loaders hatch version... Fury had an oval hatch.

You'll need some rubber chevron tracks, but the Impact tracks meant for the Pershing have the incorrect guide teeth.

You'll need to change the rear plating on the upper hull, add the correct exhausts, eliminate the external air filters and the engine access door.

All in all, using a Heng Long RTR tank for the project will get most of what you need. But then you will need to change out the correct electronics for the V8 sound.


So, you can go crazy and make it right OR... get it close. All depends on your cringe factor really.

Me and a few others are more than happy to help you with what's needed... I just listed a few items that's needed.

Here are a few of my Sherman builds that I went a bit crazy on:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_66..._1/key_/tm.htm

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96...tm.htm#9603584





Jeff

Swedish Meatball

Thank you guys for the great feedback and the links to your awesome builds.

I'm thinking that since this will be my first build I should not go too far and too crazy with the exact details, but with that said I'm not afraid of trying to get at least a few things right. So, I aim for some degree of "close" to the movie tank but not necessarily "right" this time.

I like the idea of modifying the original Tamiya upper hull with a new engine deck and rear parts. What parts/kits can be bought in help to accomplish that, and what would you rather recommend to scratch build?

I saw pictures of Nick's T23 turret kit and I must say I like it a lot. Do you think the oval hatch from the Tamiya turret could be cut out and transferred to that resin turret?

What is the difference between Nick's transmission cover and the Tamiya original?

About the rubber chevron tracks that Panther F mentioned, as I understood it, it does not really fit the Tamiya Sherman. Is there a way to make them fit, or would it be better to go for some other type of tracks?

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Nick has the oval hatch and will include it if you ask for it, you need to make up the 'hole' to go around it - not hard to do, just takes a little time and effort (Tamiya M4 kit hatch is too small for the 76mm turret, btw)
Nicks tranny cover has the towing eyes and towing cable clamp - Tamiya missed both details.
Tamiya kit tracks won't look out of place - if you want to do a really early E8 version, then you need the Impact T66 single pin tracks - but beyond that the difference between the double pin tracks actually fitted, and what comes in the kit (Pershing T84 spec?) is visually not worth the extra cash, IMHO.
As in everything in life, you need to decide how much you want to spend vs how good you want it to look when you are done

Good luck, remember that we are here to help - the best way to get that help is to be clear on how much you want to spend, and how close you want to get to the original tank you have in mind
There are many things I'd like to change about my first E8 build , but now its done its hard to get out the dremel and start chopping, so take your time and ask questions - if you find the tank you want to build, post it here so that we can guide you

EPT

Swedish Meatball

Let's start with a budget around $700. If needed, I'm sure I'll allow myself to extend it

The things I have got (not part of the budget):

• Tamiya 56013 M4 Sherman Full Option Kit
• Tamiya 850 Ball Bearing Set (24pcs)
• Tamiya Battle System

What I think I want to fit in the budget:

• New parts/kits for creating a Fury movie tank look.
• Metal tracks (if it improves looks and/or durability?)
• Barrel recoil
• Transmitter + receiver
• Battery pack
• Charger

I am new to this and not sure about my skills yet I don't expect to get that close the original tank. I will be happy if I can get a similar looking turret. Nick's T23 turret with a modification of the hatch seems great. It would be fun to try changing the engine deck and rear. Also Nick's transmission cover and other easy-to-swap parts sounds interesting.

Please recommend any other improvements you think is good for the performance of the tank. So far I have only got a 24pcs ball bearing set (Tamiya 850).


Also, I'd like to leave a door open for future FPV. So if possible I'd like to save some space for cameras in relevant places (driver, turret, gunner). This video is inspiring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUhZo2j9CQs


Here are a few photos for inspiration:




Actually, I think this example of a 1:16 Scale M4A3E8 Sherman "FURY" looks fantastic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO9RaRWgNPc





Thanks again for all your help

fynsdad

Love the look of all the "Fury" tanks....took mine to meet the real one earlier this year...

Panther F

That's what I did in my A1 build. It's no big deal having an oval hatch, but the opening must match as well so THAT'S what you cut out of the Tamiya turret roof.

MORE detail and the bolt bar is part of the cover.



They fit. The guide teeth are not accurate for a Sherman but they fit. I would also use IMPACTS sprockets with the tracks too.


Also, if you want to add recoil you must get the MF-03 for a Pershing to use for it has recoil feature... the stock kit Sherman electronics does not support that feature. There you will also gain the V-8 sound but you'll have to contend with the rev feature.




Jeff

Swedish Meatball

Nice work fynsdad!


Is this the set you recommend? It comes with one set of matching sprocket wheels.
http://mitosal.com/m4t84.htm
http://mitosal.com/M4Sherman.html


Sorry, what does the "rev feature" mean?

Ex_Pat_Tanker

You have to rev the engine in full reverse to unlock the drive on later Tamiya DMD's - its a safety feature to stop people from launching their tank of a shelf by inadvertently pressing the stick on the transmitter.
Its easy to do if your TX has analogue trims, takes a bit more work on more modern radios like Spektrums.

Also to add - get the ETO upgrade idlers, the Tamiya ones are very weak.

Panther F

IF you want the rubber padded chevrons... but the movie looks like they're using the Tamiya kits sprockets:



The Tamiya kits sprockets will not work with those tracks. BUT, using the original HVSS sprockets as pictured will. The spacing is all wrong unless you do some filing of the teeth. I know... I have all of that here. The kits sprocket look like the ones in the movie but the tracks will stand out more than the version of sprocket. Also in the photo it shows you the guide teeth. You may be able to hide this with some metal epoxy OR use the kits guide teeth which looks like a lot of work pulling both sets of tracks apart. Again... depends on how far and crazy one want to go.





A few of Tamiya tanks have this. It means the tank will have the feature of revving the engine without it engaging in a forward or rearward movement. To disengage the feature to drive the tank you simply manipulate a gimble stick and a trim and then the tank will operate normally. This must be performed each time the tank has been shut off and then re-started.





Jeff

Panther F

Oh, and there is a manual on "how to" for the rev feature. I believe it can be found on-line but I have talked tankers through it over the phone before so its no big deal.




Jeff

RichJohnson

As for the tracks, Fury has post war tracks. Shermans did not come with those tracks during production during WWII.
The tracks supplied with the Tamiya kit are the most prevalent track on HVSS shermans during the war. Chrysler came out with a funny waffle track when they introduced the hvss but it had poor traction so the tracks were revised to what is on the Tamiya kit which represents an all metal track pad.
Personally I would stick with the Tamiya tracks for a FURY build as I will do with my next ez8 to make FURY.

The rubber padded chevron tracks were added after the war, Fury has them because that is how she was modified post war.
Korea had a mixture of all three types of tracks, but almost all the early waffle type tracks were gone by Korea.

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_m...ss_tracks.html

Panther F

YES... but he's wanting to build a MOVIE TANK and they used the M4A2E8 with the T-84 tracks.

Those "funny waffle track" (LOL) are referred to as the T-66 and were not present on the FURY tank at all even though for a WWII Easy 8 they would be more correct.

So he's on the right path.




Jeff

Panther F

Another thing to ask them that I didn't consider... if their Pershing T-84E1 tracks would work on a 'stock' Tamiya M26 Pershing sprocket. This way you could use a Pershing sprocket (minus the MJ6) to get that same style sprocket that they used on the movie tank.


Just a thought.




Jeff

RichJohnson

Ok well there is the movie tank and then there is what the movie tank represents. Fury is supposed to be a late WWII US Mr4a3 Ez8 which would have the oval hatch, and the Tamiya tracks.

The earlier tracks are appropriate for the split loaders hatch on Chrysler tanks only up to like October or somewhere there abouts.


My interpretation is doing what Fury is supposed to be.


But then again, the crew said in the movie that they have been together on the same tank since North Africa. Which would in theory make the Sherman a small hatch M4a3 or M4A1. But who is splitting hairs....

fynsdad

....but didn't you pick me up on the fact that when I did "Lucy Sue" it was actually an a2 in the film, where-as i modelled it as an a3, which is what it represented...just saying...lol

RichJohnson

Yep, you are right Frank.
I plan to do murder inc as an a3 as well even though it was an A4 with a long hull.

Eddyk

HI!
If You're interested, I have for sale Nicks' T23 turret... It's new and unused...

RichJohnson

I bought the Tamiya pershing TO and MF electronics aftermarket for my Tamiya Ez8 build. They are expensive to get that way.
I have two maybe three more Ez8s planned here and I decided to use the IBU2. It will control the Tamiya recoil unit or a servo for recoil. It is also much more programmable for controlling the tank. I like them much better than the Tamiya system. I bought two Tamiya shermans used and sold off the to-mf right away as they are the platforms for more ez8 builds.

Swedish Meatball

Hello again. I'm back after a week without internet access.

Yes, thats right. I like the idea of using the T84 rubber chevron tracks, as in the movie. But I hope the sprocket style problem can be solved.

If the Pershing T84 tracks and the Sherman T84 tracks are the same, and only the Sherman T84 tracks are bundled with special sprockets, it seems possible that the Pershing 'stock' sprockets might fit. I will ask Mitosal if they can confirm this.

Will the Tamiya Pershing 'stock' sprockets fit on the Tamiya Sherman tank? I am not familiar with the "MJ6" part...

Is this the type of Pershing sprockets we are talking about?
http://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/k...016::3129.html


Now, over to the RECOIL question
.
Is it impossible to get recoil without replacing the MF-02?

Ex_Pat_Tanker, what solution did you have in mind?




Yes, I might be interested. I have tried to contact Nick about his turret kit and some other parts, but have not yet got any answer.
Please send me a message and let me know what you can offer

tomhugill

Nicks got one on eBay.com currently. You can get a servo recoil solution but it requires some complex mixing an a computer radio.

TheBennyB

Thought Carl Steckler had a recoil board used to convert tamiya MF's to use a servo? Maybe it has to have a recoil plug in to begin with though?