dgsselkirk

Does anyone have a source for just the Tamiya apples not the whole battle system?

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Tamiya's US website would occasionally have them - you'd need to search for the part number of the apple itself rather than the complete set.

TheBennyB

Didn't think you could just get the apple? Base yes, but have never seen just the apple available. You could also call up the AAF tank museum.

Airbrushler

https://www.tamiyausa.com/product/it...oduct-id=53447

nothing available

TheBennyB

That's the entire system, not just the apple.

BludoTheSmelly

Probably gonna have to look on ebay its mostly sold as an entire package, museum sells em very reasonable.

Strato50

What ever happened to the idea of Clark releasing his own higher-quality apples? Was that a rumor? Heck we should commission the 3D printers among us to come up with a simple setup...

BludoTheSmelly

I know Taigen is working on a system so theres, tamiya and others can all fight each other even if they use different hardware.

TheBennyB

Curtis at immortal hobbies sold an aftermarket apple that kinda worked with the tamiya system. It was basically a prescription pill bottle cut down and 4 IR sensors put inside. It didn't seat real well and doesn't have the 45 degree defense so your tank fodder on the battlefield. Perhaps someone knows if someone is still producing them? There is also the Impact apple but it uses a slightly different base so you can't trade it and tammy apples back and forth.

BludoTheSmelly

My sherman has an impact on it.

Strato50

The sensor Curtis / Immortal Hobbies sells I think is still being made but I have never ordered one, I think Dean knows more than I do. Impact ones are good, and with a bit of modification you can get them to fit Tamiya / Clark bases too.

How are they range wise? I've been whining at meets because my laser-guided tank IR works 40-50 feet vs my OWN tanks with Tamiya apple... but I can't hit those damned HengLong sensors from 8 feet away >< Bwahahaha. Emphasis on whining.

dgsselkirk

Oh horse crap Jordan, you just can't shoot straight! LOL! and 40 to 50 feet??? LOL! The ones Immortal was selling are from a guy in NY state. They were O.K. a little better than HL. What I found most interesting was the shade experiment we did. Clark bases can be used with Tamiya apples and are inexpensive. I'm sorry but I think the Tamiya product is very over priced when you can find it. I saw somewhere a dealer was selling the bases for $40.00 bucks!!! Even the impact ones are $25.00. But their whole system is $77.00 so less than Tamiya. Sorry, I don't know anything about Clark developing his own apples....

edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

Tamiya did sell their apples in the parts list for the battle system about 5 years ago. It was a good deal at $20 but then that went unavailable and have been that way ever since. It was roughly the same time the battle system went in short supply.

I often buy just the Tamiya base plate as I can swap existing apples and make my own emitters. Reduces the construction cost of my tanks quite a bit.

Jarlath

Is the 1/16 tank a dying proposition for Tamiya? Otherwise why would they stop producing them? From my research into the apples (What a stupid name for them, but I assume it from a William Tell shooting the apple from the top of the head reference), it looks like the pill bottle versions were based upon (or are) the Darkith DBUs?

ausf

They made the apples again and they flew off the shelves.

I was exploring a whole host of options during the apple drought. I have the components, boards, sensors, filters, etc used in the Tamiya apple.

I have made prototypes that function exactly the same in conditions and distance.

The big thing about Tamiya is they have the pyramid that focuses and bounces the signal to the emitter that sits well hidden below (IR signals travel through opaque objects, I've had hits register on sensors sealed in a white PVC pipe). I've recreated the pyramid, but getting the mirror finish was the tripping point. Even Alclad chrome wouldn't produce the same strength signal bounce. I finally solved it with milar mirror tape. Worked like a charm.

The second thing Tamiya uses is a two stage filter to eliminate the visible spectrum, allowing the IR signal to avoid interference from light. I used motion picture scrim filters to remove all visible light before the sensor.

I even cast my own stackable fins and housing, had a soldering jig for the LEDs (two red, two orange), but with the labor and materials, it's not worth it to proceed for $80.

So I designed a figure where the fins and mirror were in the belt (unseen since I used a strip of filter as the belt). It performed exactly as a Tamiya apple except one thing. The slope defense only worked side to side since the shape of a (normal) human body (at least a TC in WWII) is thinner front to back than side to side. Unless the TC was going to have a beer belly, there isn't enough room to get the fins deep enough to block out the slope. Yes I could extend the fins in the front and back, but that would defeat the purpose of having a realistic TC/apple.

I also made a prototype where the TC was sitting low and the fins were in his neck, but he just looked like Shakespeare.

Bottomline, you can get a four sensors, four LEDs, two resistors, a capacitor, some wire and a molex connector for few bucks and do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpSZzFiF6I

Panther F

I'd love to see IR battling get to this stage.

It would give each tank it's own characteristics, just like armor deflection and so forth. Get away from the apple, have a TC, hide the sensors and lights and get down to some realism.




Jeff

ausf

Me too, the ones in the Stug even used the cupola's periscopes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2uR9KtTJZg Don't hold you breath though.

TheBennyB

For sure it would be nice to get rid of the apple. Never gonna happen though, with exception to maybe backyard BBQ battles. Too many inconsistencies on installation to have everyone on the same page with regards to angle of install of ir receivers, type of receivers used, placement at cardinal 45's or not, etc. Not to mention skill level of who could do the install or not. Can't have someone show up with an exposed apple and tell them they can't battle cause they don't have the experience or skill set to install IR receivers. Same reason we really need to start looking at IR emitters somehow at inspection. With all the aftermarket boards to which you install your own IR emitter or an emitter included who knows what kind of beam your putting out or on the other side of it, a really weak pulse. We've been through this many times before and it usually comes down to if EVERYONE can't afford, DIY, or slows the game its not proactive for the IR battling hobby in group setting. Seen plenty of people but receivers and led's in the cupola, periscopes, etc and that is cool. It was hard to see from over 20' if you hit them or not though, led's just weren't that bright/visible. If someone were to release a TC that is massed produced and includes the IR receivers, LED's, and filters mentioned by AUSF I'd be the first in line to preorder.

BludoTheSmelly

To me with the modern technology and tools could it not be created to make a 360 apple? like a cylindrical plastic ring that can take shots from any angle.

ausf

The 360 apple is the easiest in the world. 4 sensors straight up (actually if you put it in a 1" white PVC, just one will read from 360).

The effort is so apples don't read from all angles, just cardinal points.

Remember IR battling is a game, like laser tag. If it was meant to be realistic, you wouldn't be able turn your turret or put your tank on an incline to become impervious to damage. If you want realistic, get everyone to buy an El Mod and spend the time setting it up to customize damage so a hit on the right side effects the right track, etc.

Unfortunately, as Brett pointed out, the only way it would work was if you had a group of guys willing to spend a good amount of time and money on their tank, each buying the same system, modifying the same way, etc. It ain't gonna happen, too many variables. Easiest way is to make it as simple as possible and use existing commercially available units.

As it is, anyone could show up with a Tamiya compatible StuG that would wildly outperform an OOB Tamiya.

At this point I only battle with friends and my sons in my backyard with tanks that are set up to be very hard to aim and hit. In a club setting, I wouldn't be competitive, but there hasn't been a club battle within 8 hours of me in a few years anyway, so it's all good. Next step in our battles will be total FPV, we're testing out systems now.

If you really want a 360 apple, it'll cost you less than $10 and you'll receive hits like it's the end of the world.

Panther F

It will never happen if we approach it saying it will never happen. The inconsistencies and skill levels spoke of exist right now... just the inspections would have to change.

These IR tanks work right now... the 1/24 and 1/72 use no apples that I know of.

It would work if the present use needs to be changed and cost & availability look like part of the issue. The apple is already being allowed to be modified in certain games already so why not have a few mules to prove they don't work.

It's all conjecture anyway... the apple should be available separately for sale if all the other components are already.




Jeff

Jarlath

*Cough* Can-Am R/C Tank Club *Cough* (Sure it on the Canadian Side, but just saying .... )

tomhugill

There not that much difference, tank has to take hits from all sides at a set distance. A Tamiya/impact Apple will always be more competitive than a hidden unit. No reason you can't make the LEDS just as visible. If your hidden unit works to the Danville rules I can't see an issue. Our club uses mostly hidden unit and with a Tamiya apple I can run rings round them on a big field.

tomhugill

We do stipulate sensors need to be higher up than the emitter

TheBennyB

jeff, the smaller scale stuff still uses a clear "apple" receiver on top of the tank to register IR. AS for the inconsistencies and skill level, that's not so much a worry when dealing with tamiya tanks as all the battle unit hardware is explained in the manual how to install as you know. I was getting at that if you go the ir receiver route one guy may have his compass and right angle out to install while another may just slap it in to be able to play...not consistent, that would take forever to inspect every receiver on a tank when you have 30-40 tankers which then have 5-10 tanks they are trying to inspect. There is already a receiver system out there, do you have it installed in your tanks? Your right though, if the other components are available the apple should be as well. I Have enough apples now for 6 or 7 tanks so I just buy the bases from the AAF and IR bulbs/tubes from Daryl.