superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Well I did something to the left gear box in my Henglong ztz99 last night and its time to upgrade. Got something stuck in the left track and locked it up. Got it freed up and now tank pulls to the left and has trouble with right turns. So either the motor is weak or has a gear slipping. I did a bunch of reading and found out it has mid low boxes. I looked at Imex steel gear boxes and DKLM last night after doing some reading here. Here is what i would like to achieve, good speed as it is a modern tank and more power to help it climb and go through grass as both are lacking with the stock setup. It has the metal track upgrade on it and Taigen electronics. So let me know about what is out there and what has worked for you and I will go out and learn as much as I can.
Thanks
Jimmy

Der alte Fritz

I bought the Taigen mid version Tiger 1. It's all metal (turret, tracks) and quite heavy. The tank came with the new V2 ball bearing steel gearboxes (4:1, H/L) and I like them. I showed it to some friends and they were very impressed when the heavy tank climbed a 30 - 35 deg. slope through deep grass with no trouble. As for speed, I actually would prefer an even slower top speed since it is an old Tiger. But my interest in tanks is looks, I want to watch it slowly creep over obstacles and watch the heavy tracks and suspension system move to take pictures. If you are into battles you may want the higher speed of the 3:1 gearbox.
Since this is my one and only tank so far I have no experience with other gearboxes, but the Taigen V2 has treated me well during my daily fun runs and squirrel hunts in the back yard over the past 2 months.
My Tiger has a tendency to throw a track when spinning on a dime in deep grass and the gearing and stock motors are powerful enough to drag the "teeth" inside the track over the idler. At one time I even bent a tooth. Being cast metal they only bend once; it broke when I tried to straighten it. Fortunately the accessory pack that came with the tank contained 2 extra links and I was able to replace the broken one. But there is definitely some power in the gearbox to do that without stalling the tank.

Reinhard

Shorty54

I run the Taigen V2 4:1 in both my Tiger I and Taigen Sherman. I run a Taigen 4:1 steel in my HL/Taigen Tiger I (all metal except turret) Low end power is good and work better after taking battle damage. (IR)
I removed the Taigen 3:1 metal ones. So far no issues.

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

I looked at the Taigen V2 but it looked like they mid-low boxes were only available in 3 to 1. That may be just fine but I just don't know enough to tell. I need to measure the high lows in my T34 and see how much taller they are than the mid lows as they may fit. Hopefully Eric will chime in as he may know what Imex boxes work in the type 99.
Jimmy

Panther F

Just remember that something jammed up the track/gears so a quality track tensioner is a good option WITH bearings in the idler too. I'm sure there are more members here that know about these parts but it being a spring tensioner is better than stock.

Any system no matter what brand or type could suffer the same fate.

I also believe bearings or at least a bushing system in the road wheels help keep things more efficient as well so the track runs true.




Jeff

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Well with this one there is no track tension adjustment. The idler just screws to the plastic on the side of the tank. It does have a metal idler with bearings on it. The road wheels run free and the track alignment looks good. I am sure it is a slipping pinion or maybe the drive gear on the out put shaft. The stock gear boxes are pretty sloppy and the out put shaft on one has a good bit of movement in it as the shaft to bushing fit is not that good. I have some ideas on redoing the idler mounting to beef it up and will do that when I swap the gear boxes. I also have an idea for a bushing for the side of the tank where the drive comes through it. That would reduce the cantilever load from the drive wheel on the shaft.
Jimmy

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

OK I pulled the tank apart and is a bad bushing in the gear box letting it bind under load. So while I had it in my hand I tried to figure out how they come up with the 3 of 4 to one. Well the motor turns 30 times to get 1 turn of the output. The ratio of the final two gears is not 3 to 1 so I got totally lost. So I googled it and found out the 3 to 1 and 4 to 1 really mean nothing. The closest thing to 3 and 4 is the number of shafts in the gear box. I have an engineering background so this drives me nuts. So has anyone done a test to see how many turns it takes of the motor on a V2 Taigen box? That would be good info. I have been doing a lot of reading for the last couple of hours. I did see where the ETO boxes are 100 to 1. That makes sense to me and explains the power and the fine speed control. So I am getting this figured out.
Jimmy

Strato50

The 'ratios' have been discussed ad infinitum but here's the basics. It's a naming convention to keep things simple for retailers and consumers. 3:1 have 3 main reduction shafts and 4:1 have 4. Back in the good old days before the more recent steel geared HL style gearboxes different Asiatam and Waltersons gearboxes went by different reduction names more or less for the same reasons. The ACTUAL ratios have been calculated a few times but just try to keep in mind that 4:1 gives more torque will less top end speed so you can take advantage of higher RPM electric motors when you can, like the HS-380-4535's which I swear by.

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Wall with the type 99 I am stuck with the 3 to 1 (30 to 1) mid lows. So do you have a lower speed high torque motor that works? I have seen several tanks with other than stock motors but not much info and I know very little about them.
Jimmy

RichJohnson

To get the actual gear ratio, mark one tooth of the motor pinion with a sharpie, rotate the motor pinion by hand counting the times it rotates around to make the track sproket take one revolution.
i despise this 3:1 and 4:1 naming scheme.

if I recall correctly, the higher speed tagin black steel sherman set is 39:1. I have it all written down at home.

I swear I want to make a gear box tutorial page.

Strato50

Yea I hate trying to order motors from MOST places because they post zero technical stats or very poor ones that I don't trust. The ones I mentioned are higher speed but also more powerful than the myriad of 'whatever' brushed motors HL, Taigen or whomever install in stock units. In the Type 99 you have a lot more sideways room so you can easily install some higher torque slow motors in there, I've reviewed some (Check my started threads I think!), but again hard to find retailers that list the specs properly :P

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Rich that would be a good asset to the forum. I sent Erik a PM to see if he has checked the V2's to what the true ratio is. Also something as simple as going down a tooth on the motor gear can make a difference for tuning a box to a tank. There are so many variables from weight to drive sprocket diameter to desired use that the ability to make motor and ratio changes would be a good thing. A Franklin quick change for tanks.
Jimmy

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

So I have been doing some more searching here on the forum for true ratios and found a couple of post with some information. Rich one is yours. Here is what I found so far. I added the tank I am working on to the list. I will continue to add as I find information. If you have a box that you can check or have all ready done please ad the information.
Jimmy

“I spent some time counting revolutions to get real gear ratios on a few gear boxes.
this is motor turns to final drive sproket 1 revolution.” Rich Johnson
taigen panzer 3 gear box 29:1
Henglong sherman 39:1
mato steel ball bearing 69:1

39:1 - Taigen steel 3:1
46:1 - Taigen steel "Dual Ratio" (Euro-spec, "5:1" pinion position)
70:1 - Waltersons 3:1 (large pinion)
90:1 - Taigen steel 4:1
100:1 - Waltersons 3:1 (small pinion)

30-1 Henglong mid low in ZTZ99

pcsguy88

The new Taigen 4:1's are ungodly slow in the Leopard and I see very little difference in performance with Graupner 400's bolted into them. Low end control and shear grass ripping power is incredible, but man is it painful to watch a modern tank stuck at a crawl.

RichJohnson

I prefer the mid range gear boxes and high speed motors. Im not an expert at all, but the low range boxes only are useful for heavy tanks, physically heavy models, and when it comes down to the last couple hits in IR battle.
The Mato 69:1 boxes in my jumbo Sherman keep crawling down to the last 9th hit.
As opposed to my Tamiya M4a3e8 which has the Tamiya white gear V1 boxes. It is fast as hell, about 25 scale mph, but man that last hit, I aint going nowhere...

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

After fooling with this some for a light weight AKA plastic modern tank the 3 to 1 at 39 to 1 is a better choice. I have a set coming for the ZTZ99 and will see how they do. They should be about twice the ground speed of the 4 to 1 and still have better power than the stock gear boxes.
Jimmy

pcsguy88

The brass 3:1's in my panther seem to be the best balance between speed and power, just smooth perfomance all around. I think the 4:1's will go in my metal KV to get it to actually run and a set of new steel 3:1's for my leopard.

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Have you counted the actual ratio on your brass gear boxes? Be interested in the true reduction to ad it to the list above.
Jimmy

Imex-Erik

8:1 and 46:1 for the brass gearboxes (also 360 motors versus 380 on the normal gearboxes). The motor and RPM are different on this gearbox (aka the 5:1) but are insufficient to run a metal or heavy model without some modifications IMO. Also, for motors I have told you guys my favorite a bunch of times.... BANEBOTS Check out the motors, they have more stats on them than most brushless motors, have a great rep, and have multiple motor sizes. I used them for many years and had zero issues.

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Erik I just looked at the banebots site and they have all the 7.2 volt stuff listed to stock on hand and discontinued after they are gone. What motors are you using from them?
Jimmy

Imex-Erik

I have used the 360 motors (not listed anymore), the 370 motors, the 380, 395, 550, and 775 (12v version) motors from them. I've yet to have an issue with quality or service. I'm actually about ready for another set of 775 motors and I might get the FF050 motor to try and see if I can replace the rotation motor with it but at 8V max it might not like the higher voltages I tend to run in my tanks or even a fully charged stock battery for that matter.

pcsguy88

I just ran a test with the v2 4:1 gearboxes, one side with the stock black motor, the other with a Graupner Speed 400. The stock black moves the tank faster forwards and backwards. Color me impressed.

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

So there is not much speed in your Speed 400"s?
Jimmy

pcsguy88

They certainly sound like they are spinning faster since they are higher pitched, but the black motor pushed the tank in an obvious circle. Now these 400's have bounced between tanks over the years and probably have 25hrs of run time on them, so who knows how much they have declined. They certainly push my daughter's 99 on stock ratio steel gears along at a faster pace than the grey motors. The black motors are the same physical size as the 400`s and just seem to have more torque when they run.


Last night I adjusted the idlers to shorten the track, pulled a link out, soaked the 4:1's in gun oil (I know, I know) and then ran the bajeezus out of it on the carpet for a good hour to loosen everything up. Speed has noticably increased. I'll see how everything settles in over the next week and then make my decision on going down to the v2 3:1's.