Learning to mix paint
#1
Thread Starter
Learning to mix paint
Trying to follow some Tamiya painting instructions that require mixing paints to get the right color. The instructions are to mix Flat Flesh and Red Brown in a 5:2 mixture. I think that means that the mixture should be 5 parts Flat Flesh and 2 parts Red Brown. So, to calculate how much of each that is, I treat it as if there are 7 parts total. 5 of them will be flesh. So, if I want a total of 10 ml of paint, then I need to mix 7.14 ml of Flat Flesh with 2.86 ml of Red Brown. Did I do that right? Or, am I missing something?
At the same time, a mixture of 5:2:1 would be eight parts with similar math, right?
TIA
At the same time, a mixture of 5:2:1 would be eight parts with similar math, right?
TIA
#2
Woof, too much math.
I'm at the point where I'm mixing almost every color. There's an app (iModel) that has every paint maker's color charts, conversion charts and a really cool mixing calculator that lets you program what you have on hand and it'll give you formulas, including all Fed, RLM and RAL shades.
All that said, I just go by drops: If the formula is 7:5:2, I just multiply that by my needs, generally 14,10 and 4 drops into a new eyedropper bottle, add the same amount of thinner, close it up and into the shaker.
Trying to pour to a fixed amount like 10ml would end up in a disaster on my bench. The ratio counts, not the end amount.
I'm at the point where I'm mixing almost every color. There's an app (iModel) that has every paint maker's color charts, conversion charts and a really cool mixing calculator that lets you program what you have on hand and it'll give you formulas, including all Fed, RLM and RAL shades.
All that said, I just go by drops: If the formula is 7:5:2, I just multiply that by my needs, generally 14,10 and 4 drops into a new eyedropper bottle, add the same amount of thinner, close it up and into the shaker.
Trying to pour to a fixed amount like 10ml would end up in a disaster on my bench. The ratio counts, not the end amount.
#3
Thread Starter
Trying to paint the entire tank...drops won't get there! But, the scaling example helps. Thanks.
The app...is that an iPod/iPhone app? Android? Windows? Same as iModelKit?
The app...is that an iPod/iPhone app? Android? Windows? Same as iModelKit?
#4
Yep, that's the one. I use it on an iPad.
Hehe, no, drops won't help with a tank, but it's the same idea. You could do it with mls, bottles, tsps, gallons...
Just don't mix it in the color cup.
Hehe, no, drops won't help with a tank, but it's the same idea. You could do it with mls, bottles, tsps, gallons...
Just don't mix it in the color cup.
#8
Thread Starter
Your painting skills are awesome! I'm nowhere near being able to do that. I need measurements, complete with infant/child oral syringes for measuring.
But, here's what I'm going for, if you want to give it a go. I'm thinking that Tamiya got the 8020 about right. I just might need to lighten up the paint a little, or it almost looks like the sample was painted onto a white background with a thin application. I may have to green up Tamiya's recommendation for 7027, though. Tamiya recommends straight Buff.
https://www.facebook.com/14897278479...type=3&theater
But, here's what I'm going for, if you want to give it a go. I'm thinking that Tamiya got the 8020 about right. I just might need to lighten up the paint a little, or it almost looks like the sample was painted onto a white background with a thin application. I may have to green up Tamiya's recommendation for 7027, though. Tamiya recommends straight Buff.
https://www.facebook.com/14897278479...type=3&theater
#9
Hey, Philip, Jeff is spot on telling you it's the ratio that counts, not the end amount. For small amounts I also use those oral syringes for kids (we have a store here called Kroger's that gives them to me for free and they're above average because they have no rubber in the stopper and that makes them last longer) and I also like to use a pipette with a bit of masking tape wrapped around it for a fill line. Just draw up 5 of one and two of the other and I'd be set.
I've done a lot of experimenting with oral syringes for smoke fluid and one thing I've found is that some products can have a reaction to the material used in the stopper/plunger. Stock Taigen smoke fluid will mess up some rubber in a hurry and the whole thing will lock up tight and be useless. I imagine you're using acrylic, a waterbased paint, so you shouldn't have all the trouble I've had with smoke fluid and enamel paint. If it wasn't such a long swim I could mail you some of the Kroger jobs, the best I've found. Maybe one of these days I'll have to send you something, so if I do remind me to send a couple. I get them free. I wonder if a syringe video would help anyone?
I've done a lot of experimenting with oral syringes for smoke fluid and one thing I've found is that some products can have a reaction to the material used in the stopper/plunger. Stock Taigen smoke fluid will mess up some rubber in a hurry and the whole thing will lock up tight and be useless. I imagine you're using acrylic, a waterbased paint, so you shouldn't have all the trouble I've had with smoke fluid and enamel paint. If it wasn't such a long swim I could mail you some of the Kroger jobs, the best I've found. Maybe one of these days I'll have to send you something, so if I do remind me to send a couple. I get them free. I wonder if a syringe video would help anyone?
#10
I mix my Sherman OD with Tamiya paints by the bottle. 1:1:1 Flat brown, flat yellow, flat black. All go into a large testors gloss coat square bottle.
When it gets half way low, I add one more bottle of each.
I used to use a baby Tylenol syringe to mix. 2ml at a time or less in graduated marks. But once I got my color decided, I just go whole bottle.
When it gets half way low, I add one more bottle of each.
I used to use a baby Tylenol syringe to mix. 2ml at a time or less in graduated marks. But once I got my color decided, I just go whole bottle.
#11
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like I'm on the right track, but there are simpler ways to get there.
Gary, thanks for the syringe info. I didn't know that Kroger gives them out for free. I should have thought of a drug store, though, for getting these. I got mine from Amazon. I'm using acryllics; so, that's not a problem with the plunger. But, that's good to know about the smoke fluid.
Gary, thanks for the syringe info. I didn't know that Kroger gives them out for free. I should have thought of a drug store, though, for getting these. I got mine from Amazon. I'm using acryllics; so, that's not a problem with the plunger. But, that's good to know about the smoke fluid.
#13
Bhop, that is true. But it takes a while.
Paint is a science. It has a base, a catalyst and a reducer (thinner).
US OD 24087 Semi gloss olive drab used by armor from late 43 on and by all US Army equipment through Vietnam, has a couple different mixtures from manufactures. One type will fade to pea green the other will fade to brown and then finally pink as the sun burns the pigments out of the base., while the last one actually fades to black.
This kind of fading takes a few years to many years. I have two US Army vehicles out front of my house that I have watched fade. Its an interesting process. I have also worked on many many vehicles and seen and photographed a huge number through their paint life.
It takes a few years for the first fading to start, especially with paint that still has lead in it. Lead was a binder in the base, it is gone now from paints but back when it was used paint lasted so much longer before it faded. Also, older lead paints could be revived with a good scrub washing.
During WWII, fading would not be that significant in ETO from 43 to the end of the war.
Paints should be pretty darn close to what the original color was before gime and dirt are added if you want to be accurate.
MTO in North Afrika might have experienced a little fading due to lots of sun and reflected desert heat.
But, its your tank, do what makes you happy. Hence why I spent months trying to mix various testors OD colors to get the right OD because I know their 24087 is not right. I finally switched to Tamiya and kept going, and then decided to start with the basics. Olive drab is two colors. black and ocre. Ocre isn't available to I add yellow to brown to get ocre, throw in black and I get a super awesome dark OD that looks brown in the dirt and green in the grass. Over coat with some gloss if its late 43 or later for when they switched from flat to semi gloss and its sheen gets darker but its still the same color. Beautiful to my eyes as to what the OD is supposed to look like. Many WWII US soldiers said their tanks were more brownish color than green. They were not the same color as wheeled vehicles, which is pretty close to the testors 24087.
Any way, I know your not trying to mix OD but this is my saga of paint.
Paint is a science. It has a base, a catalyst and a reducer (thinner).
US OD 24087 Semi gloss olive drab used by armor from late 43 on and by all US Army equipment through Vietnam, has a couple different mixtures from manufactures. One type will fade to pea green the other will fade to brown and then finally pink as the sun burns the pigments out of the base., while the last one actually fades to black.
This kind of fading takes a few years to many years. I have two US Army vehicles out front of my house that I have watched fade. Its an interesting process. I have also worked on many many vehicles and seen and photographed a huge number through their paint life.
It takes a few years for the first fading to start, especially with paint that still has lead in it. Lead was a binder in the base, it is gone now from paints but back when it was used paint lasted so much longer before it faded. Also, older lead paints could be revived with a good scrub washing.
During WWII, fading would not be that significant in ETO from 43 to the end of the war.
Paints should be pretty darn close to what the original color was before gime and dirt are added if you want to be accurate.
MTO in North Afrika might have experienced a little fading due to lots of sun and reflected desert heat.
But, its your tank, do what makes you happy. Hence why I spent months trying to mix various testors OD colors to get the right OD because I know their 24087 is not right. I finally switched to Tamiya and kept going, and then decided to start with the basics. Olive drab is two colors. black and ocre. Ocre isn't available to I add yellow to brown to get ocre, throw in black and I get a super awesome dark OD that looks brown in the dirt and green in the grass. Over coat with some gloss if its late 43 or later for when they switched from flat to semi gloss and its sheen gets darker but its still the same color. Beautiful to my eyes as to what the OD is supposed to look like. Many WWII US soldiers said their tanks were more brownish color than green. They were not the same color as wheeled vehicles, which is pretty close to the testors 24087.
Any way, I know your not trying to mix OD but this is my saga of paint.
#14
Thread Starter
All good info. Thanks for the help! Not sure I can eyeball it, though. Not enough experience, especially since it doesn't seem to look the same wet as it does dry.
@RichJohnson, thanks for the history of OD. That helps with future projects that will roll into the Korean War. Do you know if the Marines used the same OD on their tanks from WWII into Vietnam? I assume they did at least through WWII and the Korean War...probably even into Vietnam. Seems like they got their tanks from the Army, usually cast-offs, through the '80s and '90s. (still today, probably)
@RichJohnson, thanks for the history of OD. That helps with future projects that will roll into the Korean War. Do you know if the Marines used the same OD on their tanks from WWII into Vietnam? I assume they did at least through WWII and the Korean War...probably even into Vietnam. Seems like they got their tanks from the Army, usually cast-offs, through the '80s and '90s. (still today, probably)
#15
I think, they had the same color un Korea. WWII was definitely the same as all the tanks came from the armor board specs right from the factory or tank depots.
I know post Korea the USMC went to a different color OD. It was always flat, (as opposed to Army which was semi glioss) and was more green less brown.
USMC
US ARMY
Colors vary a bit by light and camera. but this is as close as I could demonstrate. Army has brown tint, USMC doesn't.
I know post Korea the USMC went to a different color OD. It was always flat, (as opposed to Army which was semi glioss) and was more green less brown.
USMC
US ARMY
Colors vary a bit by light and camera. but this is as close as I could demonstrate. Army has brown tint, USMC doesn't.
#16
Thread Starter
Definite color difference and the brown really comes out when you compare them. Looks like Tamiya's OD is closer to the later USMC color than the WWII color.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
#20
I mainly have been using it as scale calc. You put in any measurement in any scale and you get the scaled result in decimals, fractions or mm. Valuable tool, especially when working a 1/16 project off an existing 1/35 kit.
It wasn't until I needed some AC colors for German and USN that I realized how powerful the mixing tool is. I don't mix armor colors since they are widely available and broken down to a handful of colors.