LukeZ

I'd like to introduce two things to everyone: a project and a product.

First, the Open Panzer Project. This is an undertaking to create open source versions of all electronics used in RC tanks today, with quality and features second to none. Open source means all software, designs and even processes are freely available for examination, modification, and distribution. For the last many years this project has been comprised of one person, but from now on it belongs to and will be shaped by anyone able and willing to contribute. The advantages of an open source approach are numerous, but for one it allows the community to continuously build upon the efforts of those who came before rather than re-invent the wheel, and for another, it is not dependent on the success or failure of any single person or business but can persist and evolve even as people and enterprises come and go.

OpenPanzer.org is the online home for the Open Panzer project. The site includes a forum to discuss Open Panzer designs or any other open source RC undertaking. It's kind of a quiet place right now but in time we hope it will grow to a hive of activity.

The site also includes all the details of our designs and a comprehensive Wiki with instructions. This brings us to the second introduction: our Tank Control Board or TCB for short.

The TCB can do all the things tankers are used to, but with flexibility, ease and features unparalleled in the market today. The intent was to create a board that would let the user tank the way they wanted, while getting rid of annoying restrictions like TV remotes for programming, tiny jumpers to lose, or memorizing odd stick combos to perform actions. In a manner very similar to flight controllers used on modern quadcopters, The TCB is compatible with all hobby radio receivers that output PPM, SBus, or iBus signals and can read up to 16 radio channels with only a single cable to your receiver. Each channel can be assigned to scores of functions in any way you choose. All configuration is done with easy to use Windows software we call "OP Config." Connection to a computer is with a standard USB cable or wirelessly with an optional Bluetooth adapter. We encourage you to download OP Config now and see what you think.

The TCB is plug-and-play compatible with Tamiya turret motors, recoil units and IR equipment. Taigen recoil, Airsoft and flash units can be made to work with very minor re-wiring, and we have video instructions for each of them. Taigen smokers are plug and play. Additionally the TCB can control up to 5 servos and 5 lights.

There are two important things to note about the TCB - it can not drive track motors directly (at least in 1/16th scale or larger), and it has no on-board sound.

For track motors the TCB is compatible with all hobby speed controls (brushed or brushless), and a variety of serial motor controllers including all Dimension Engineering Sabertooth controllers as well as our own design Scout ESC. Every other segment of the RC hobby uses and always has used separate motor controllers, even Tamiya uses a distinct speed control box for their tanks. Although this necessitates another piece of equipment, it allows you to choose the controller that best meets your needs, and keeps the TCB smaller and less expensive. This also means the TCB can drive a 1/6th scale tank just as easily as 1/16.

As for sound - the TCB is plug and play compatible with the Benedini TBS Mini and Micro sound cards, and in fact you get even more control than you normally would without having to modify your transmitter. Compatibility can be added in the future for other sound devices, including an open source sound card of our own design (not yet complete at this time).

In terms of battle the TCB has been programmed to accept and fire all known IR protocols on the market today including all repair and MG protocols. Dipswitches on the board allow the user to select any of the three Tamiya weight classes or a custom class of your own definition.

Additionally, a great deal of effort and thought went into the most fundamental aspect of RC tanks - driving your model. Acceleration and deceleration constraints (often called "physics" by other manufacturers) are not only implemented but can be adjusted by the user in multitudes of ways, including on the fly. Multiple turn modes, selectable neutral turns, speed limits and much more are all features you can experiment with as well as manipulate from your transmitter, that will transform your tank from a toy to something that operates in a realistic manner.

I could go on, but if you want to learn more, please head over to the TCB Wiki, get a big cup of coffee, and spend an evening reading to your heart's content.

Where to buy: As of October 2017 the TCB is once again available for purchase from Hobby King, click here to buy. For project updates, please be sure to follow the Project Status thread.



Luke

TheBennyB

Wow! looking forward to seeing how this goes.

RichJohnson

I have heard wind of your project as loose lips sink ships etc but scuttlebutt travels fast if you keep your ear to the ground for track vibrations.

Does the TCB support servo recoil and does it allow the recoil and return speeds to be set like an IBU?


For me the down side to this already is, I have to not only learn the OP Config, but also have to do my own sound, get a Bendini and figure all that crap out and hook it to the board and somehow make it work. Oh and I have to get an ESC and integrate that too. Does the ESC slow down after being hit in IR battle? My opinion is you should have built in an ESC. I don't even know of an ESC that can drive a tank with two motors, not saying one or many aren't made, just never seen a controller like that other than the old Tamiya TO1 that came in my dmd Sherman.


This system sounds really good, but really over complicated for most tankers. I have friends that have trouble making a Tamiya work right, and then I have helped plenty of guys make their IBU2 units work right, and they have a short manual to set them up.

Im just afraid that this may be way over the head of half the hobby or more.

Not to be a stick in the mud, but Ive been in the tank hobby for a few years now and don't think more than 1/4 of the people I know or see at battles could make something like this work.


I like the open source idea, that follows what we have in the model train world with JMRI, its an open source software to program the decoder chips that now run model trains, it also allows for PC operation of a model RR, wifi throttle with a phone etc etc. Good idea to go public with the software etc.

I will definitely look into this product and see what its all about and maybe give one a try,

Rad_Schuhart

I must agree with Rich on every word. I have seen a lot of people with huge problems with the tamiya units (specially making the cannon and machine gun shoot) and many more with ibus, clarks etc, so I can imagine how hard will be for most of tank users to buy your board, ESCs, benedini board and make it work together.

IMHO (and I might be wrong) if you want to succeed with your board, it should come with the ESCs and be able to play sounds. The benedini is a very expensive board for what it is, and most hobby grade boards have way superior amount of sounds and quality just for a bit more cash.

Anyway I think the open source is a great idea, and maybe soon you can make another board with all the functions what we need.

CaptainB

Having been doing this RC tanking and aircraft stuff for many years now, I would say that less is more and the KISS approach (Keep It Simple Stupid) applies. In other words, any replacement electronics needs to be a simple swap out with all the functionality and sounds built in. Most of us don't have the time or inclination to mess about wiring things up and testing which can take hours if you get a connection wrong or something else doesn't work and you need more advice etc.The Clark boards are close but I can tell you setting one of these up right can take a lot of time if you have an issue. I agree that the TX stick position with the Clark is a bit of a pain but is manageable. What I'm hearing with this new product is not convincing enough to make me want to jump ship to it from Clark but I'll have a look at it.................

Cheers

CaptB

ausf

My interests are moving away from RC tanks, so I'll probably won't be a customer, but I have to chime in to applaud what you're doing.

Not only is it brilliant going open source, but working with HK is an outstanding move. They've really become a major player in the industry and their 'home branded' products have stood the test of time. Their product is now just as good as others, it's not a case of HL style OQ. I've been running some HK servos and chips for years now and they stand up as well as Futaba or HiTec.

Arduino exploded on the scene of hobby electronics with open source, hopefully you will have the same impact on the RC world.

Scratch my original comment, while I may not be building many RC tanks, I'm still into RC and I could see this board in a RC Lost in Space B9 Robot, camera dolly, Schwimmwagen, etc.

Is it C or C++? Any chance of using Mac?

Shorty54

I started late into tanks, just a couple years ago. I started with the Clarks, BARCs, and TBS. So I am use to the programming with computer, tv remotes, and making sound. Im still learning to make sound files. The crazy stick configs are annoying. I am use to them, but family and friends hate them. I only have KISS tank, and that was bought well after the other 4. My concern would be space in the tank. It gets crowded quickly, and wiring is tough to loom sometimes. I guess price and support will be big for most as a lot of people have a hard time buying a $85 HL and spending $400 plus just for electronics. I to will be watching this. Maybe it will save my tanking, as I am ready to sell out and be done with RC Tanks.

Imex-Erik

I wanted to chime in on this here. I personally have been using and help testing the TCB for a while and I must say the driving and operation of the tank is absolutely amazing. The control and options available for this board is exactly what we need. It may seem a bit overwhelming when looking at it, but setting up is actually very simple and can be done pretty quickly. As for the separation of drive components and the board I personally don't mind, but remember, it is an open source design! It can be changed or modified at any time! That is one of the best parts about this board IMO, it has the ability to offer everything out now and more for a good price. I will soon do an install as well just to show how quick you can get it up and going.
The battle systems act exactly as the type you select and the systems like Tamiya that feature battle speed reduction built in will be reflected in battle. There are also adjustable parameters as well for custom configs. Another great feature OP is ability to control EVERYTHING to your will. Here are some of the best and most used features for me:

• SBus - Finally, the ability to use 16 channels! Inverted or not, Futaba and FRSky support!
• OP Scout - better motor control than a Sabertooth! Also I use mine almost daily for motor testing as well
• Airsoft + Infrared Support - Yes, with the correct wiring you can have both and even airsoft barrel recoil + IR! I have OP to swap firing via a 3 way toggle (low-airsoft recoil with flash/mid-recoil with flasher/high-IR with flasher)
• Scale Adjustments - Elevation, Turret Rotation, Forward, & Reverse can be adjusted by 1% at a time. Get perfectly scale in all aspects. Make it really fair in IR battles now
• Lights/Aux output - I like the light outputs but the Aux output I use for a 5V AIO 25mW FPV cam. Simple, small, and one connection. Controlled on and off via my transmitter
• Switch Assignment - Probably my favorite part of OP. Assign anything to anything. If you like half stick movements then you can use them and match your old setup, or if you are like me and like everything to switches and knobs then you can do that as well. Assign a driving profile to a switch and have an outside 100% power tank and another set for low profile slow driving for videos and such, and another for scale IR battles and put them on a 3-way switch. Or my favorite is to assign inertia and momentum to potentiometers and have on the fly adjustments to your driving
• Control - The feel on this board is amazing. The driving at slow speed is very smooth, in fact I now run 3:1 gearboxes in my Tiger 1 as the TCB has no problem driving those at slow speeds and has plenty of power to drive them. I even run 3S lipo (this board also has user set low voltage cutoff for any battery!).
• Easy Updates - 3 Clicks from the main screen and you are done. Easy. Oh did I mention you can backup and restore setups? Also a snoop mode to see everything going on!

I have nothing but great things to say about the TCB. It has been a great system for me and has lots of features we need for this hobby's future and now EVERYONE has access to that and everyone now has the ability to contribute whether it be code, comments, or even a few bucks to the developer. Open source is all about sharing and helping, I personally think the tanking community is one of the best for that. Admittingly the sound is a weak point atm, but both the Benedini mini and micro are supported already with more to come I shall soon do a video on installation, luckily the Wiki and documentation done on this is better than any other I've seen so far so I don't believe there will be too many questions.
I suggest you guys download the OP Config here: http://openpanzer.org/forum/index.php?page=download and browse the configurator. The setup is actually pretty simple, all of it can be done via the configurator and nothing needs to be done on your tx like end points, expo, etc. It may seem like a lot to learn, but you can simple just click and choose, nothing needs to be learned or memorized. Almost every single setting or option has help tips as well, just click and see exactly what it does with a well thought out and wrote text.
This gets a thumbs up from me. I love the control and options I now have and finally having 16 full channels is a huge plus for me. Most radios support at least PPM these days, there is no reason we shouldnt be advantage of faster control protocols and better wiring hygiene. I have installed the TCB in at least 4 tanks and the Scout in 2 (it is a bit newer) and the Scout pushes our new Leopard lower hull with absolute ease. I am even planning a 24th install soon. Oh, and speaking of 24th... just think of using that team based battle system in a 1/16th setting I can't wait until I get some more people to work with, I will be following this project closely!

LukeZ

Yes and yes. Of the 5 servo outputs, one is reserved specifically for recoil. Time to recoil and time to return can both be set by the user. You can also set custom endpoints for the servo to match your specific install. As Erik mentioned, you can use servo recoil in conjunction with other devices such as Airsoft, so this is compatible with Taigen's Tiger combo Airsoft/recoil unit. For that matter you could use servo and the Asiatam mechanical recoil units both, though not sure why you'd want to.

As with every accessory, there is an entire page devoted to the recoil servo in the Wiki, this one even includes a how-to video.

Battle behavior can be set to Tamiya spec and the tank will behave precisely the same way a Tamiya would in terms of speed reduction, number of hits to destroy, etc... See the IR Battle introductory section of the Wiki, as well as the instructions for the Battle settings in OP Config.

LukeZ

Ausf, you have quickly deduced some of the more novel possibilities of this board. In addition to cars and halftracks, it absolutely would be perfect for other RC or robotic applications. I think it would be great for model ships, it could easily handle dual props and even bow-thrust steering, and of course you could use any sound sets you wanted appropriate to boats, fog horns, lights, even on-the-water IR battles would all be a simple matter with no changes required to the existing board or firmware.

Firmware on the TCB is written entirely in Arduino and can be compiled in the Arduino IDE. That means sketch code in C with libraries in C++. OP Config is written with Qt which is entirely C++. Qt is cross-platform compatible and OP Config can certainly be compiled for Macs, but I don't have a Mac to test. Of course the source is freely available so I'm hoping a Mac-savy community member will be willing to take on the task of compiling OP Config for Macs at some point.

For those interested in the code, check out our GitHub page: OpenPanzerProject

Dusty Steppes

You mentioned turret rotation speed. Do clockwise and counterclockwise have individual settings? I have been playing around with this and have found most motors do not operate at the same speed in opposite directions.

Shorty54

Erik has sure done a lot of testing with this. Do I smell Taigens new stock electronics?

LukeZ

Rich, Rad, CaptB - I do appreciate the other comments about KISS, separate vs integrated ESCs & sound, complexity issues, etc... These are all important things to keep in mind with any design, but at the same time every design requires decisions and tradeoffs and this is the product we've arrived at. Suffice it to say, the TCB is not going to make sense for everybody and every situation. In some ways, it is perhaps directed at a segment that doesn't yet exist in large numbers within the RC tank community, but which I hope to grow. For that reason, if it receives lukewarm reception from the existing tankers but draws in a new and younger crowd, I would still consider that an acceptable outcome - though I do hope old and young alike will find the value of this endeavor! (FYI - I don't consider myself in the "young" crowd).

But let me say this - if you can figure out the rats nest of wiring, poor-to-nonexistent documentation, and bizarre quirks involved in getting a Clark or other advanced board to run, you are not going to be daunted by the TCB.

LukeZ

We do not have separate clockwise and counter-clockwise speeds for turret rotation, though something like that could be added. We do however have full proportional control, so the turret will turn as fast or slow as you want, depending on how far over you push your turret stick. Perhaps that would suffice?

I should also mention that in addition to controlling the regular HL/Taigen turret rotation assemblies, you are free to use a continuous rotation servo instead.

LukeZ

And most of all - thanks Erik for that glowing review! I don't think I will get a better one than that. I also learned a new phrase, "wiring hygiene"! That's a good one. And pretty hard to stay on top of with tanks I must admit.

heavyaslead

Thanks for the update, what is the price point for these going to be?

It better be half price of the competition, as not having built in sound and ESC is a real draw-back.

Most people want to plug and play, not have to hook up a computer and do some firmware programming.

Having a product (like Tamiya) that requires NO external devices to program is wonderful. Please consider on board set-up as an option - like dip switches or a 'Sherman' or 'Tiger' set-up module or SD card to plug in.

I'm setting up a unit right now with USB cables to my computer, software to download and install, firmware to update/load and jumpers to the radio equipment and a billion programming screens to navigate through. Its a real pain when most of us want to turn it on and go.

When you are out battling, you absolutely do not want to have to drag your laptop to re-program anything if event rules or completion parameters are different from programming.

heavyaslead

Make a unit that younger tankers could drive via blue-tooth on a smart phone with a tank app - now that would be boss!

Jeff489

My Feedback: (12)

Has anyone who regularly IR battles their tanks tested this yet?

LukeZ

Eric as mentioned in the first post price is yet to be set but I will post here when we know.

Your other points are very well taken and I specifically agree with you 100% about the Tamiya unit being wonderful. I mean that sincerely, in many ways even after decades without change it remains arguably the best system available.

If you want something that has no adjustments (and no options), this is not the system for you. Thankfully there exist already many such boards, so those bases are already covered. I could have made a device like the Tamiya, but what would be the point? Tamiya exists. I am not interested in bringing in to this world things which already exist, but rather to take a new approach.

Having said all that - the TCB does have the same adjustments available with dip-switches on the board as Tamiya does - namely, the ability to select weight class. It also has a physical "fight/repair" switch to select between those two modes. No computer or accessories needed.

Tanque

I personally love to tinker although I don't get time to do it often enough. I wondered when someone would get around to using Arduino or even a Raspberry Pi type of platform as the basis for a control system. C/C++, Java even an assembly language would be like old home week for me...

I believe it was said already but the challenges will be learning curve and being able to address the virtually unlimited combination of configuration options and variations in radio system choices.

You know what they say: with great power comes great responsibility...

Jerry

ausf

I got into Arduino for RC sub control. Ballast shifting, depth sensors, etc. It's all too much to control with the limits of the older lower frequency Txs needed for water penetration.

So if it's written for Arduino IDE, I should be able to write a sketch to get the functions I'm looking for, just not in the convenient interface, correct?

LukeZ

I personally have only battled against myself. Erik ran the board at Danville, but that was a year ago and I was not there so I can't remember exactly how it fared. I seem to recall some technical issues but Erik will know more.

The board has been used by a few others but I don't believe it has seen much actual battle time yet.

LukeZ

Yes, you can certainly add to the sketch (or write your own if you wish).

However there are already 4 blank user function templates created in the sketch into which you can put whatever code you want (two digital and two analog). You can then assign any trigger (RC channel typically) to these functions in the convenient interface, this is implemented already. You can see the full list of available functions on this page, the 4 user customizable ones are under the heading "Custom Functions."

I have tried to make this as easy to hack as possible. And I will gladly assist you in doing so.

Imex-Erik

Yes, if it is open source you can count me in. From OP to Betaflight I'm down to test almost anything Just a note this is NOT Taigen's electronics, this is Open Panzer's. A collaboration is not out of the question though, you never know
Thank you for letting me help. And yes, wiring hygiene is a difficult one, I personally spend a LOT of time getting wires done correctly, zip tied, out of the way, and looking good. It is just habit for me I guess.
You should only have to do a setup once. You can then save it and even share it later with others, they just need to update the radio channels. In fact if I am correct I believe several setups could be shared and a user could just download and change his channel assignments to his choice but the setup is so fast (less than 10m in software MAX) I don't see too much of a need here. A PC is only needed if you want to change settings you cant assign to your radio. Since almost everything is assignable to a switch I rarely connect to the PC app anymore except to check for updates occasionally.
I'm sure it would be possible, idk about the safety though lol! Personally I would think the BT would be better suited as a IR battle score keeper. You could have it display how many hits you have taken, how many shots fired/left, speed reduction %, battery voltage, etc. Heck you could even possibly make a score page with team vs team! Of course the BT is still in the infancy as far as mobile apps, but that sure would make for an amazing stat read out! Remember, it is open source so the possibilities are endless!
Idk how "regular" I am as far as IR battles, but I did test at Danville with no issues (once I corrected one of my wire installs lol) and I also even used it to test range vs a Tamiya (TCB shoots farther by just a few meters!) and battle TG vs TG tanks here. The great thing is you can use a TG receiver with something like the Tamiya battle system, that alone saves a ton of money! A feature I'm sure could be added to blink the LEDs or an additional output when hit to mimic the LEDs on the receiver.

LukeZ

Ausf, you mentioned depth sensing - the TCB also has two general purpose I/O ports that can be set to input or output. When set to input, they become triggers themselves that can be assigned to any of the existing functions. A silly example is to attach a potentiometer to one of these inputs, and assign that as an input to control the brightness of an LED. However you could instead connect a depth sensor (assuming the sensor provides or can be made to provide a variable voltage), then assign that as a control to a servo output (perhaps your dive planes), or to one of the custom user functions and have it do whatever you want.

This could be accomplished quite easily with the hardware and software in its present state, and you can still use the convenient interface to assign triggers to functions.

I should also mention that all the hardware on the board can be re-purposed without much effort. For example, yes there is a plug to attach a HL/Taigen smoker. And if that is what you want, that is all you need to do. But if you don't need a smoker on a sub, but you could use another uni-directional speed control - OP Config easily allows you to "disconnect" the smoker output from the smoker function, and use it instead as a speed control. You can then assign any RC channel or other trigger to that control. The same goes for running additional speed controls not related to the drive motors, more servos, whatever.

This all probably sounds more complicated than it really is. When you understand the simple concept of functions (do stuff) and triggers (commands like RC channels from your transmitter), and you see the vast array of possible functions and the multitudes of ways they can be connected to triggers, the power and flexibility start to become apparent, and the potential applications go far beyond tanks to any RC controlled object.