seahorse bob

I've been interested in virtually all rc hobbies for a very long time. I like planes, helis, boats, cars, crawlers and ,of course, tanks. I've always used wheel type transmitters since they were first introduced back in the late seventies or early eighties -it's been so long ago, I can't remember exactly when it was. I find that they are more intuitive or "natural" feeling in use with cars, boats,etc. If you think of the surface vehicle (of any type) as viewed from the top, then also think of the wheel on the transmitter the same way, then clockwise on the trans gives clockwise on the vehicle, and vice versa.
I also find that having a stick transmitter used only for my flying "toys" helps me avoid any psychological negative transfer or getting confused when going from surface to air or vice versa. The inputs on the transmitter are different enough to lessen any confusion. I'm especially mindful of this when I'm instructing students on aircraft or when I'm flying one of my too expensive helicopters - mistakes are very costly.
Since there aren't many wheel type transmitters with more than 4 channels, I've resorted to making my own. I've modified two so far and may do more. In both cases, I've used the wheel and throttle assemblies from old wheel type transmitters and adapted them to stick transmitters. If you keep in mind that most transmitters use 5k ohm linear pots to input control position to the encoder section of the transmitter, then there are many possibilities for mixing wheels and sticks.
So, I thought I'd post some pics of my two transmitters as examples. These aren't necessarily the optimum or best examples of what can be done, just one way of doing it. I certainly don't claim to be the first to do this, I imagine it's been done before. I'm especially happy with the Spektrum conversion. One good aspect is that the firing button, which used to be throttle cut, is right above the steering wheel and is ergonomically easy to get to for rc battles. I placed the throttle lever a little lower on the side because I found that I could cradle the lower right corner of the transmitter with my left hand and it almost felt like I was holding a wheel type trans. The old Futaba has to be held cradled in my left arm and hand. Let me know if there are any questions and/or comments and I'll be happy to respond.
Bob

TheBennyB

So you lose one axis on the stick the wheel is on? Did you have to move another function say elevation to a knob? Interesting, for me though I don't like taking my thumbs off the sticks at any time for major functions (drive, turn, elevation, traverse) during IR battles. Any split second your not looking at the battlefield or adjusting means your opening up to take a hit or missing hitting someone else. Would still give your system a try though.

LukeZ

You might be interested in this sucker. Keep both axes on the stick but adds a rotary motion as well.

Single Stick 3 Axis Gimbal Upgrade

Imex-Erik

I've seen that before but never seen anyone use one before... Mainly aimed at 3d helis right? Is that a 5V or 3.3V gimbal?

TheBennyB

3d gimbals are used in r/c construction as well. You'd use the 3rd axis on both sticks to control your track motors on an excavator. You also have levels that you can switch between so you essentially double your channels.

seahorse bob

Hi, Benny. I should have explained that I am right handed and control the steering that way. My left hand - actually my left index finger - controls the throttle lever which is on the right side end of the transmitter. My left arm and hand support the transmitter. So, both functions of the right stick are are still there - steering with the wheel and throttle by the lever operated by my left hand. It's easier to drive with the two functions of the right stick separated even for me even though I fly mode 2. Being able to fire by pushing the throttle cut button right above the wheel is nice, but I still have to move my right hand to the left stick for traverse and elevation. It seems it would be a compromising factor if you feel the need to keep both hands on the sticks all the time. Let me know if there are any other questions.
Bob

seahorse bob

Hi, Luke. This reminds me of a Heathkit 8 channel radio I had in 1974. It had what was called a "single"stick setup -aileron rt. and lt. on the gimbals, elevator on the gimbals, and rudder was an rotary knob on top of the aileron!. It was designed by Phil Kraft, but was adversely affected by the fact that the IF filters were ceramic, and couldn't be replaced because the IF frequency was set at 433 Khz, instead of the much more typical 455 Khz. The ceramic filters were very badly affected by vibration - not a weakness you wanted to have with the very vibrating single cylinder two stroke engines we had back then. I crashed a couple of planes right after take off and retired that radio. Actually, it worked fine in boats and my first rc tank - the Tamiya Sherman.
I think these 3 axis gimbals would be really interesting to use with tanks. Perhaps, one on each side ! Thanks for posting this.
Also, I'm really excited to see that your TCB will perhaps be brought to the market by HK. I look forward to getting one. I'm very glad you have you worked so hard to develop it.
Bob

seahorse bob

Hi, Erik. I only fly scale and sport helis, but we have some real hot 3d pilots in my heli club. I've only seen regular two stick radios being used by every heli pilot I've seen. Obviously, I can't claim to know that all of them use 2 sticks, there may very well be someone using one of these 3 axis gimbals.
Bob

LukeZ

Yeah, I think the general idea for the quadcopter guys is to use the rotary stick to control a pan camera. Obviously it is aimed at the camera platforms more than racing quads. But no doubt it could have other applications as well for those with the creativity to imagine them. I know some guys prefer to have turret rotation control on a knob and this would be a novel approach to that.

rgburrill

If that Futaba PCM radio is on 72MHz you are breaking the law using it on surface vehicles. 75MHz is for surface.

seahorse bob

Imex-Erik

Be careful with those OrangeRX modules, pretty sure those aren't legal either lol. Turns out HK was selling them without the required labels or testing. They were being fined something like $10K a day for this a bit ago I heard. The FCC has the info here: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...-16-1290A1.pdf and if you check section III part 6 you can see this as the explanation:
*6. After examining the documentation HobbyKing provided in response to the LOI, theDivision determined that the OrangeRX Transmitters were neither properly certified nor labeled with therequired FCC identifier. Accordingly, based upon the information before us, we find that HobbyKingviolated Section 302(b) of the Act and Sections 2.803(b)(1) and Section 2.925 of the Rules.*

It was a big story near the end of the year, the best part was HK's response:
*In response, HobbyKing’s owner stated that HobbyKing is a small company that purportedly would “soon be ceasing operations entirely"*

So yea, be careful. Prolly ok, but once again it never hurts to spend just a few extra bucks for your radio.

Edit: added * to source's comments

seahorse bob

Hi, Erik. This is really interesting. Do you suppose the JR/Spektrum was responsible for the complaint? I hope HK thrives long enough to bring the TCB to market. Do you know if there is another source for the Tx module to operate with Spektrum receivers that does comply with FCC regs? As I recall, Spektrum doesn't do that anymore. And when they did, they were only DMS2 and not DSMX.
Thanks, Bob

Imex-Erik

Who knows to be honest. I've been out with a buddy or two that had them and had no issues, but then again that is your call. Just by chance, does yours have a FCC and/or CE logo on it? What kind of TX module are you looking for?

LukeZ

There's always the option of getting it straight from Spektrum! They only want $110 for it.

Tanque

Hmmm now you have me looking at my 9x systems... I see a 'CE ' logo but no FCC ID ( the 9xr has an FCC ID).
I thought the CE logo indicated European legal compliance.

So now I'm wondering if the 9x is legal... my late dad was a lifelong FCC licensed advanced class amateur radio operator and always played by the rules ( as they all did back then) and if for no other reason other than to honor his memory I'd never knowingly use an unapproved system..

Jerry

Imex-Erik

This is a good question actually. I'm not sure myself. I just checked an original Flysky 9X my boss has and the FCC logo is on the module but not the TX. Maybe the original TX did not require it, only the module did?

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Unfortunately, you can't even trust the labels - when I was moving home I made extensive checks into which of my radios I could use in the UK. Horizon Hobby's UK support stated that US spec DX5e's had a much higher output than legally allowed in the UK and couldn't be used, and were most surprised to be told that both of the DX5e's that I had bought direct from Horizon USA had the CE compliance stickers on them as the UK models...?

Funnily enough I was wondering why I hadn't seen any Orange Radio's for sale over here

Imex-Erik

I apologize for hijacking the thread, it wasn't my intention
If you are wanting to stick with Spektrum then I think Luke's link is probably your best bet.

seahorse bob

Hi guys. It's enjoyable and stimulating intellectually to muse about any developments on the thread. It's certainly not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
Alas, Luke, the module that Spektrum sells now will only fit the JR style connections, not the Futaba. I'd heard they only sold Futaba modules for a while to get people to switch, and then discontinued them. So, even if I was willing to pay the $110.00, it wouldn't do any good.
You got me wondering, Erik. A quick perusal of some of my transmitters shocked me. My newest and most expensive, a DX 18, doesn't have the FCC id! My older DX 8 and DX3R do! I have a couple of FlySky iT4's and neither have the FCC id. Most shocking, Erik, is that none of the four Taigen transmitters that came with tanks I've purchased from you have an FCC id. I'm only teasing you - it doesn't really bother me at all.
I"m posting some pics of the transmitters and modules. Truthfully, I hadn't paid any attention to the lack of an FCC id on the Orange module, but it's clearly there.

Bob

Imex-Erik

I heard there was something going on about the FCC possibly not requiring the logos for phones and certain devices in the future, but I'm not sure that matters much for our hobby applications. Taigen is all good, bossman has the paperwork up front for it. We work right beside an airport as well and they are RC friendly too, I was just over there in the tower a few months ago with them actually.
The Taigen FCC logo will be soon added to the TX, not sure why it isn't now. I believe it used to at some point, either way I'll have that fixed. I've actually brought this up before when I was talking with the airport, I FPV a lot in the area (special permission needed within 5 miles) and wanted to make sure all was good with them with the stuff I use. I like to go to the local park at lunch and play with the tanks or fly a bit so it is always nice to give them a heads up especially since the military actively uses it.

seahorse bob

Hi, Erik. I think you're correct about the FCC not requiring the sticker currently. It's my newest transmitters that don't have it. The older ones do have it.
I hope you know that I was just kidding you about the Taigen transmitters. I only joke around with people I like and respect. You've given me much help responding to my newby questions by email over the last few months. Also, it's obvious that you have given lots to the forum and it's much appreciated. I remain a loyal and enthusiastic customer for Taigen products and I'm sure that everything is proper and legal there. I've been very pleased with all my purchases from you and will make more in the future. Matter of fact, if there's a list for buying the Panzer mark 4, put me on it. So, I hope I didn't give you any worries.
Bob

Imex-Erik

Yea I remember reading somewhere about phone OEM/ODMs that were complaining about putting it on the phones. I figure that would probably trickle down, but wasn't sure on the details. I know for sure Spektrum is legit here in the US and would never sell a product that wasn't licensed. I am still going to check into it though, it never hurts to know a bit right?
Also just a heads up, you can always feel free to ask me stuff here or in PMs. If I am not aware of the issue or problem I can't try to fix it If you guys met me you would understand my obsession with fixing things. It doesn't even have to be electronic, if it is broke it drives me nuts until I fix it. I'm glad I've been of service to you, I'm always happy to help though I don't always have the best of news (I will have some good news if you follow our newsletter later though!)

Tanque

Things don't even need to be broken for me to attempt 'fixing' them....

Imex-Erik

Yea I think we would get along very well. One of my favorite things to do is wiring. I know people hate that but I like me some good wiring hygiene. I like to zip tie and solder all my wires to perfect lengths, shrink wrap, cable tie, and liquid tape all my stuff if possible. To me the wiring is almost as much fun as building the tank. I'm working on an OSD for my tank now but I'm not quite ready to show it yet. I'm using a F3 flight controller with built in OSD for things like voltage, artificial horizon, pitch/roll/yaw angle display (good to see what angle you are sitting at before you roll over!), compass, elevation (altitude, not barrel elevation degrees), and a bit more. However, it is a PITA to get it working without input. I'll be spending plenty of time this weekend trying to figure that out for sure. Nothing broken yet but let's wait until the weekend is over first