Beeping motors with new board
07-04-2017, 06:36 AM
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Beeping motors with new board
I'm having issues with low throttle and turning with my new board (TK60) I just installed in my Jagdpanther. Low speed is very jerky and often stops and turning is impossible at low throttle as well. Here's a video of the beeping.
Is it related to my low throttle problems? 2S and 3S lipo.
Last edited by Despotes; 07-04-2017 at 06:39 AM.
07-04-2017, 07:43 AM
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The beeping of the motors is actually because of the motor FETs being turned on/off to drive the motors. This occurs when the motors receive just enough voltage to move. But to me it seems you must give more throttle before response ( if I listen to engine sound ). Seems maybe endpoints might need resetting, same on turning. Did you previously use the receiver in a tank?
Channel assignments for the TK60 are the same for TK22/24, apart from CH5 and up (Depending on 6/8CH software). So if you're looking for, let's say, JR/Spektrum channel assignments I suggest you look at Clarks TK20 series page.
What mixer mode are you using on the TK60? Did you turn mixer on your TX off as well?
Did you arrange the Clark CH wiring in a way that your control scheme is the same as on Clarks website for 6CH?
6CH control is based on the Microzone MC6B RX and the FlySky FS-i6S RX, and the 8CH AND 10CH are based on the FlySky FS-i6S as well.
Your experience might differ if you use a different RX, which might be supported, but doesn't have the necessary amount of pots/switches for the functions.
Beeping is only noticeable when you don't use sound at all (or use low volume).
With the newer S-Bus control software (10CH) the beeping is gone.
What motors are you using with what gearbox?
Channel assignments for the TK60 are the same for TK22/24, apart from CH5 and up (Depending on 6/8CH software). So if you're looking for, let's say, JR/Spektrum channel assignments I suggest you look at Clarks TK20 series page.
What mixer mode are you using on the TK60? Did you turn mixer on your TX off as well?
Did you arrange the Clark CH wiring in a way that your control scheme is the same as on Clarks website for 6CH?
6CH control is based on the Microzone MC6B RX and the FlySky FS-i6S RX, and the 8CH AND 10CH are based on the FlySky FS-i6S as well.
Your experience might differ if you use a different RX, which might be supported, but doesn't have the necessary amount of pots/switches for the functions.
Beeping is only noticeable when you don't use sound at all (or use low volume).
With the newer S-Bus control software (10CH) the beeping is gone.
What motors are you using with what gearbox?
07-04-2017, 08:06 AM
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The beeping is only at low throttle. Higher throttle is fine, but it's at low throttle the tank won't move smoothly. It jerks and jumps and stops. Turning is impossible on pavement unless I'm close to full throttle. With my IBU3 low throttle worked great in this tank. Same motors/gears. I tried both Mixer Mode 1 and 2 with the programmer. No change at all.
The beeping is noticeable when the volume is turned up. I'm unsure of what motors this came with. https://heng-long-panzer.de/en/rc-ta...tion-2886.html
Same receiver I used in this tank with the IBU3. Worked fine
The beeping is noticeable when the volume is turned up. I'm unsure of what motors this came with. https://heng-long-panzer.de/en/rc-ta...tion-2886.html
Same receiver I used in this tank with the IBU3. Worked fine
07-05-2017, 06:46 AM
#5
Not knowing your specific motor types but I will suggest what's happening with the ESC
The ESC appears to not be able to deliver the current required (torque) at low RPM (voltage). Which means the ESC is cutting out when it experiences high current draw at low voltage.
I know the IBU3 has a software selectable max current for the motor drives, does the Clark have a similar selection? That may help.
The ESC appears to not be able to deliver the current required (torque) at low RPM (voltage). Which means the ESC is cutting out when it experiences high current draw at low voltage.
I know the IBU3 has a software selectable max current for the motor drives, does the Clark have a similar selection? That may help.
07-05-2017, 07:34 AM
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The beeping is only at low throttle. Higher throttle is fine, but it's at low throttle the tank won't move smoothly. It jerks and jumps and stops. Turning is impossible on pavement unless I'm close to full throttle. With my IBU3 low throttle worked great in this tank. Same motors/gears. I tried both Mixer Mode 1 and 2 with the programmer. No change at all.
The beeping is noticeable when the volume is turned up. I'm unsure of what motors this came with. https://heng-long-panzer.de/en/rc-ta...tion-2886.html
Same receiver I used in this tank with the IBU3. Worked fine
The beeping is noticeable when the volume is turned up. I'm unsure of what motors this came with. https://heng-long-panzer.de/en/rc-ta...tion-2886.html
Same receiver I used in this tank with the IBU3. Worked fine
Mixer Mode 2 is useless for you, since you don't use a PDSGB. Mixer Mode 1 allows neutral turns and Mixer Mode 3 doesn't allow neutral turns.
Did you try Mixer Mode 3?
Being able to hear the beeping is impossible with 13~15 Watts of sound at full volume. So that doesn't sound convincing.
Even I hear the beeping of my PDSGB 540 motor at low speed AND low volume. But at low speed AND higher/max volume you won't hear it.
As I said earlier, the beeping is gone when using S-Bus software (10CH).
Not knowing your specific motor types but I will suggest what's happening with the ESC
The ESC appears to not be able to deliver the current required (torque) at low RPM (voltage). Which means the ESC is cutting out when it experiences high current draw at low voltage.
I know the IBU3 has a software selectable max current for the motor drives, does the Clark have a similar selection? That may help.
The ESC appears to not be able to deliver the current required (torque) at low RPM (voltage). Which means the ESC is cutting out when it experiences high current draw at low voltage.
I know the IBU3 has a software selectable max current for the motor drives, does the Clark have a similar selection? That may help.
For example; the Graupner Speed 400 motor has a voltage range of 3.6V to 8.4V. This means the motor will only start turning if the required voltage (3.6V) is achieved.
(Source:
07-05-2017, 12:08 PM
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Those motors have a RPM of 8500. The motors themselves are pretty standard and is usually the first thing I toss out. I usually upgrade to a DKLMRC PDSGB in tanks that historically had neutral turn. Otherwise I upgrade the motors with something like this: https://www.rctank.de/2-Motoren-fuer...ehungen-Taigen .
Mixer Mode 2 is useless for you, since you don't use a PDSGB. Mixer Mode 1 allows neutral turns and Mixer Mode 3 doesn't allow neutral turns.
Did you try Mixer Mode 3?
Being able to hear the beeping is impossible with 13~15 Watts of sound at full volume. So that doesn't sound convincing.
Even I hear the beeping of my PDSGB 540 motor at low speed AND low volume. But at low speed AND higher/max volume you won't hear it.
As I said earlier, the beeping is gone when using S-Bus software (10CH).
That's not true, as the TK60 can deliver 60A to the track motors. Problem is the required voltage at which the motors start turning. (Voltage range)
For example; the Graupner Speed 400 motor has a voltage range of 3.6V to 8.4V. This means the motor will only start turning if the required voltage (3.6V) is achieved.
(Source: Attachment 2223085)
Mixer Mode 2 is useless for you, since you don't use a PDSGB. Mixer Mode 1 allows neutral turns and Mixer Mode 3 doesn't allow neutral turns.
Did you try Mixer Mode 3?
Being able to hear the beeping is impossible with 13~15 Watts of sound at full volume. So that doesn't sound convincing.
Even I hear the beeping of my PDSGB 540 motor at low speed AND low volume. But at low speed AND higher/max volume you won't hear it.
As I said earlier, the beeping is gone when using S-Bus software (10CH).
That's not true, as the TK60 can deliver 60A to the track motors. Problem is the required voltage at which the motors start turning. (Voltage range)
For example; the Graupner Speed 400 motor has a voltage range of 3.6V to 8.4V. This means the motor will only start turning if the required voltage (3.6V) is achieved.
(Source: Attachment 2223085)
I haven't tried Mixer Mode 3. It looks like it would be worse from the description.
Update: Just tried Mixer Mode 3. Nope. Same problems. Attempt to turn at low to mid throttle and the tank stops. It's not getting from the TK60 that it gets from the Taigen board whatever that is.
Here's an example of it struggling in low throttle. I'm not moving the throttle or steering.
Last edited by Despotes; 07-05-2017 at 02:10 PM.
07-06-2017, 05:52 AM
#8
That's not true, as the TK60 can deliver 60A to the track motors. Problem is the required voltage at which the motors start turning. (Voltage range)
For example; the Graupner Speed 400 motor has a voltage range of 3.6V to 8.4V. This means the motor will only start turning if the required voltage (3.6V) is achieved.
(Source: Attachment 2223085)
Actually motors can run well under their specified voltage until the stall current is reached.
Anyway, the fact that it works fine with the stock board/motors tells me its a TK60 power delivery problem, its browning out.
Last edited by heavyaslead; 07-06-2017 at 07:35 AM. Reason: clarification
07-06-2017, 09:03 AM
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You are correct about the sound that occurs when using PWM as a method to drive the FETs.
However, the TK60 CAN deliver 60A continiously.....Peak current is 240A. (Source: facebook . com /permalink.php?story_fbid=10153989481669788&id=313209919787 )
There are extra solder pads to solder the wires directly to the board (Motor pads and Battery pads), so you can increase your wire thickness.
The difference is the amount of steps it has to divide the voltage in..... So if you "land" on a step at which the motor is beginning to turn you get the beeping noise and no rotation. Current 6CH and 8CH software divides it in a lower amount of steps than the S-Bus software, which divides it in 32 steps. (Which makes it comparable to IBU, Elmod etc for track driving and without the beeping).
@Despotes: Did you try different motors with it? (You should get them soon I think from a friend)
However, the TK60 CAN deliver 60A continiously.....Peak current is 240A. (Source: facebook . com /permalink.php?story_fbid=10153989481669788&id=313209919787 )
There are extra solder pads to solder the wires directly to the board (Motor pads and Battery pads), so you can increase your wire thickness.
The difference is the amount of steps it has to divide the voltage in..... So if you "land" on a step at which the motor is beginning to turn you get the beeping noise and no rotation. Current 6CH and 8CH software divides it in a lower amount of steps than the S-Bus software, which divides it in 32 steps. (Which makes it comparable to IBU, Elmod etc for track driving and without the beeping).
@Despotes: Did you try different motors with it? (You should get them soon I think from a friend)
07-06-2017, 10:52 AM
#11
You are correct about the sound that occurs when using PWM as a method to drive the FETs.
However, the TK60 CAN deliver 60A continiously.....Peak current is 240A. (Source: facebook . com /permalink.php?story_fbid=10153989481669788&id=313209919787 )
There are extra solder pads to solder the wires directly to the board (Motor pads and Battery pads), so you can increase your wire thickness.
However, the TK60 CAN deliver 60A continiously.....Peak current is 240A. (Source: facebook . com /permalink.php?story_fbid=10153989481669788&id=313209919787 )
There are extra solder pads to solder the wires directly to the board (Motor pads and Battery pads), so you can increase your wire thickness.
(Could it be 30A per channel? (Left + Right motor + 60A total)
For reference the Graupner 400 stalls at about 21 amps and a Mabuchi 540 at about 57 amp
So the TK60 should be able to drive the 400's but if the stall is much greater I expect it would not turn the motor, especially if it have some current regulated output at less than full voltage.
07-06-2017, 11:30 AM
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Wow, that's impressive. Thanks for that info.
(Could it be 30A per channel? (Left + Right motor + 60A total)
For reference the Graupner 400 stalls at about 21 amps and a Mabuchi 540 at about 57 amp
So the TK60 should be able to drive the 400's but if the stall is much greater I expect it would not turn the motor, especially if it have some current regulated output at less than full voltage.
(Could it be 30A per channel? (Left + Right motor + 60A total)
For reference the Graupner 400 stalls at about 21 amps and a Mabuchi 540 at about 57 amp
So the TK60 should be able to drive the 400's but if the stall is much greater I expect it would not turn the motor, especially if it have some current regulated output at less than full voltage.
The question is: Would your battery be able to handle that?
To combat that problem I use a 10A car fuse between the battery and TK60. (Better safe than sorry, èh)
This is more than enough in most, if not all, cases. I have yet to experience a burnt fuse caused by motor stall.......
I myself use NiMhs and I can run those 540s from the PDSGB (and everything else; sound, rotation etc.) no problem at all for a couple of hours under IR Battling conditions
07-06-2017, 12:05 PM
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You are correct about the sound that occurs when using PWM as a method to drive the FETs.
However, the TK60 CAN deliver 60A continiously.....Peak current is 240A. (Source: facebook . com /permalink.php?story_fbid=10153989481669788&id=313209919787 )
There are extra solder pads to solder the wires directly to the board (Motor pads and Battery pads), so you can increase your wire thickness.
The difference is the amount of steps it has to divide the voltage in..... So if you "land" on a step at which the motor is beginning to turn you get the beeping noise and no rotation. Current 6CH and 8CH software divides it in a lower amount of steps than the S-Bus software, which divides it in 32 steps. (Which makes it comparable to IBU, Elmod etc for track driving and without the beeping).
@Despotes: Did you try different motors with it? (You should get them soon I think from a friend)
However, the TK60 CAN deliver 60A continiously.....Peak current is 240A. (Source: facebook . com /permalink.php?story_fbid=10153989481669788&id=313209919787 )
There are extra solder pads to solder the wires directly to the board (Motor pads and Battery pads), so you can increase your wire thickness.
The difference is the amount of steps it has to divide the voltage in..... So if you "land" on a step at which the motor is beginning to turn you get the beeping noise and no rotation. Current 6CH and 8CH software divides it in a lower amount of steps than the S-Bus software, which divides it in 32 steps. (Which makes it comparable to IBU, Elmod etc for track driving and without the beeping).
@Despotes: Did you try different motors with it? (You should get them soon I think from a friend)
07-06-2017, 01:31 PM
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Stock motors have a lower RPM than the motors he's sending you. This means more RPM per Volt and should benefit your driving capabilities. Just try them and compare them.
S-Bus sw;
As stated on Clarks Facebook:
This means that you only use one (1) cable from RX to Clark board.
All functions (Gun, MGs, lights, engine start/stop, neutral) are moved to pots/switches, only driving, elevation and turret/gun rotation is done with the two (2) self centering sticks.
This eliminates the 'gimmicky' stick movements with the TK22/24 and TK60-6CH to use gun, MG, etc.
Also included is a Smoke Unit On/Off function and an extra light function on connector L6.
For detailed description, photos etc. go to his TK60 page. I also made diagrams for the S-Bus TK24/60 as well, which Stian also has.
Downside is that you need a S-Bus compatible TX/RX combo. The cheapest and most easy to use TX is the FlySky FS-i6S with the FS-iA10B RX. Stian sells the FS-i6S as well and if you want to know more, ask him.
I plan to use the TK24SP (TK24 with 10CH S-Bus software and sound Programmability) in my Sd. Kfz. 251/22 Pakwagen and Sd. Kfz. 234/2 Puma to avoid the wire mess AND benefit from the better motor control. All my other TK22/24/60/60G2 are going to get the S-Bus Upgrade as well.
S-Bus sw;
As stated on Clarks Facebook:
TK60,TK24 and MFK series support S.BUS now!
-Accept 10-CH S.Bus digital signal to achieve very precise and low latency control,
- Easier to install, just one cable from receiver to the board,
-ESCs( Track, turret, elevation) resolution therefore improved to 32 steps,
-Support 10-ch control scheme even TK24,
-Current TK60/24 can be upgraded with S.BUS version software, handling charge is $10 and we will provide a S.BUS cable for free.
-More details are on TK60/TK24 web page.
-Accept 10-CH S.Bus digital signal to achieve very precise and low latency control,
- Easier to install, just one cable from receiver to the board,
-ESCs( Track, turret, elevation) resolution therefore improved to 32 steps,
-Support 10-ch control scheme even TK24,
-Current TK60/24 can be upgraded with S.BUS version software, handling charge is $10 and we will provide a S.BUS cable for free.
-More details are on TK60/TK24 web page.
All functions (Gun, MGs, lights, engine start/stop, neutral) are moved to pots/switches, only driving, elevation and turret/gun rotation is done with the two (2) self centering sticks.
This eliminates the 'gimmicky' stick movements with the TK22/24 and TK60-6CH to use gun, MG, etc.
Also included is a Smoke Unit On/Off function and an extra light function on connector L6.
For detailed description, photos etc. go to his TK60 page. I also made diagrams for the S-Bus TK24/60 as well, which Stian also has.
Downside is that you need a S-Bus compatible TX/RX combo. The cheapest and most easy to use TX is the FlySky FS-i6S with the FS-iA10B RX. Stian sells the FS-i6S as well and if you want to know more, ask him.
I plan to use the TK24SP (TK24 with 10CH S-Bus software and sound Programmability) in my Sd. Kfz. 251/22 Pakwagen and Sd. Kfz. 234/2 Puma to avoid the wire mess AND benefit from the better motor control. All my other TK22/24/60/60G2 are going to get the S-Bus Upgrade as well.
07-14-2017, 12:02 PM
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OK. I just tried some Promax 480 motors I found and still having the same problems. The tank will not make a gradual turn. It will spin just fine, but when moving forward and trying to turn it simply stops.
A quick clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dyqCPjefsc&feature=youtu.be
Why is this happening? I also tried with my DX18 and tried *****g the travel to 150%. Same. I don't want to spend another $200 for the PDSGB just so I can turn.
Looks like Increasi n....g is a bad word. lol
A quick clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dyqCPjefsc&feature=youtu.be
Why is this happening? I also tried with my DX18 and tried *****g the travel to 150%. Same. I don't want to spend another $200 for the PDSGB just so I can turn.
Looks like Increasi n....g is a bad word. lol
Last edited by Despotes; 07-14-2017 at 12:06 PM.
07-17-2017, 06:12 PM
#16
Any chance you have a mix or expo engaged on the channel your using for steering? For poops and grins try switching the steering channel over to the same stick as your throttle. Wonder if it's a TX issue?
07-17-2017, 10:49 PM
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07-18-2017, 12:43 AM
#18
Something is very wrong there, I've got a tk24 and tk60 and in my brumbar with ost ketten metal tracks it turns fine on grass. Same with my Cromwell which uses the tk60. Both with stock motors. Might be you need to return the board.
07-18-2017, 12:45 AM
#19
It's a shame s-bus is required for low speed control when other boards manage just fine without. However imo the slow speed jerk can be in part mitigated by using lower ratio gearboxes. It's one of the down sides of the Clark board but i feel is more than made up for in other areas.
