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Super Sherman M4A4 w/HVSS M50

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Old 05-31-2018, 09:38 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
Maus45, the M51 is quite easy to do accurately with the tamiya kit. The necessary changes are the rear engine deck with a shaleways one, and some other add on details like the stowage box on the rear and spot light and bits from eastcoast armory. The welded hull is accurate as some m51s were built on m4 large hatch hulls but mist were built on m4a1 76w hulls. That would require either a nick aguilar hull or an old mato plastic m4a1 large hatch hull. Both of which would have to be heavily modified for the turret ring equipment as the tamiya m51 turret has a bigger ring than the tamiya m4 105 turret.
I would really like to do one of these builds too, boy do i have a line up in my head lol.
If doing an m51 I would recommend use of Henglong rotation rather than trying to get a tamiya unit in.

I've done one m51 and will be doing a pair of chillean ones (and an Interchangable top to do the m50 (M60)) on one chassis
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:21 AM
  #52  
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Tom, are you using the tamiya kit and changing it over to HL rotation and a mato a1 hull?

to interchange the turrets m51 and m50 on a hull wont be totally accurate. The hulls are set up differently even on the hvss m4a1 cast hull. The m51 has track stowage on the turret and the m60 HV has the track stowage on the hull. Also travel locks are different. Along with cammo. Aside from plain sand, which the two variants shared, the m51 got a strange cammo job while the m60 HV was either sand, desert cammo, or plain green. Based on my photo research. More may exist but I havemt seen it. But, at this point you can kind of fudge alot od things as there aint much out there. This will help.
http://www.mapleleafup.nl/g104/rch.htm
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:03 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
Maus45, the M51 is quite easy to do accurately with the tamiya kit. The necessary changes are the rear engine deck with a shaleways one, and some other add on details like the stowage box on the rear and spot light and bits from eastcoast armory. The welded hull is accurate as some m51s were built on m4 large hatch hulls but mist were built on m4a1 76w hulls. That would require either a nick aguilar hull or an old mato plastic m4a1 large hatch hull. Both of which would have to be heavily modified for the turret ring equipment as the tamiya m51 turret has a bigger ring than the tamiya m4 105 turret.
I would really like to do one of these builds too, boy do i have a line up in my head lol.
Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
Tom, are you using the tamiya kit and changing it over to HL rotation and a mato a1 hull?

to interchange the turrets m51 and m50 on a hull wont be totally accurate. The hulls are set up differently even on the hvss m4a1 cast hull. The m51 has track stowage on the turret and the m60 HV has the track stowage on the hull. Also travel locks are different. Along with cammo. Aside from plain sand, which the two variants shared, the m51 got a strange cammo job while the m60 HV was either sand, desert cammo, or plain green. Based on my photo research. More may exist but I havemt seen it. But, at this point you can kind of fudge alot od things as there aint much out there. This will help.
http://www.mapleleafup.nl/g104/rch.htm
Hey Rich, no I originally planned just to do the m60, so ive got a nick aguillar small hatch welded hull and all the other gubbins to go on it. I subsequently scored a cheap m51 turret so bought a pair of nicks cast hulls, and all the gubbins to do two chillean m51s. As the 51s were as you say m1a1 based in the main I'll use a standard length lower, they used some none A4 small hatch hulls for 50s so it's accurate for that too. If I see a cheap hvss lower I can then use that and have an IDF M50 and M51 and a chillean m51s and M60 covering the whole gamet of "Super Sherman's" (discounting the M1 of course)
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:15 PM
  #54  
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Nicks hull is a small hatch A3 ford. The Israelis never had that type according to the research ive done. They had some plain m4s, A1s, A2 fisher brand with welded hoods, and chrystler A4s, and composits. None of these resembed the ford a3 hull really as is. If you review my Alco m4 build then you will see how i narrowed the hoods of nicks hull to resemble an m4 from alco. This would be the same for a federal machine brand m4a2 narrow hood.
They also used large hatch m4s which had to have been howizter tanks originally. The tamiya hull is perfect for building an m50 or m60HV on.
The bulk of the m50 class was m4a4 and Fisher m4a2 based. With a few of the rest descirbed misxed in.
I also have a few photos showing welded hull m51 tanks. I cannot tell if they were an m4 105 hull or an m4A2 (76)w hull that would have been a UK lend lease tank. Either is likely and plauseable, as they got many tanks the UK left behind in the desert and bought many tanks from the french. Neither of which were given ford m4a3s in any doccumental number as they didnt enter the war till they were remanufactured and then issued only to US troops by winter 44.
but when it comes to postwar stuff, just about anything is plausebile, though i have been told there are some defineates as I descibed above here.
one thing is for sure there are lots of modeling possibilites with the m50/60/51 classes of sherman as the remainging users really mixed it up and made some great looking tanks. Ive picked out a specific m60HV that I want to build.

im also thinking wouldnt it be cool to have a Raytheon upgrade demonstrator for the M60 HV class? Large hatch welded hull, full reactive armor on the hull with reactive and ceramic applque to the turret, lazer guidance stuff etc etc. Or even for the m51 since it is supposedly still in service in Chile.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:11 PM
  #55  
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I took a break from my Super Sherman to set up my M1a1 Abrams for our modern tank themed battle next month. Its more or less done save an emitter.
So I was also waiting for head lights and tail lights and brush guards. I wanted Schumo parts but ETO can no longer get them so I went to Axelsmodelbau direct. Shipping on two baggies of parts was over $50 American so I gave up that idea and nearly scratch built them myself again but I really loath doing that and since this tank has a big spot light to come, I wanted working head and tail lights too and the Tamiya ones just suck so I decided to try the mato all metal shermans lights set. While I like the lights, front and back, the brush guards are nearly tolerable. No where near the quality of Schumo. I really don't want to put plastic ones on my tanks since I know they will get broken eventually. The mato guards are cast so they look a bit odd to my eyes as they have weird angles from molding. Well I used them. I need to get some tiny plastic tubing to make the head light pedastals since they were not marked or molded on the m4a4 hull.
Im nearly there with this tank. Just a few bits and some lift rings on the turret and rear and that's about it left. Im getting anxious to start my next challenging build.




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Old 07-09-2018, 06:35 AM
  #56  
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Well, I knew the 3d printed jerry can holders were gonna break, the front one didn't even last till I painted the tank. I decided I would try and make them from brass and drill and pin them to the hull. This is the first one I made so far, man is it sturdy. Its amazing how strong it is. I think on my next tank I might just use brass to bend and fold the can plate at the bottom too. Oh the challenges I make for myself.

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Old 04-22-2019, 09:56 PM
  #57  
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Time to get back to working on this project too. Been loathing having to rebuild the jerry can holders with brass because they kept breaking before the tank was even done. The rear one even the plastic printed pan holder got broken in half so I decided to make the pan in brass too, just for the rear since it sticks out so much and is vulnerable.
Two more to install,, then the turret hand grab bar on the bustle and some other small stuff and she will be done I think. Unless I decide to put all the footman loops on it, which I may do.



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Old 04-22-2019, 10:07 PM
  #58  
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Nice additions in brass
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:04 PM
  #59  
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I recently started to work with soldering brass and PE on my KV-2 build. I bought an Aber PE detail kit with some very small items to be soldered. Even though I have been taught how to solder I was having one hell of a time. Most of the time it's because your either get too much heat from a torch (other areas de-solder while trying to solder another area) or too little from a soldering iron (cold joints that don't bond). With solder in one hand and the iron in the other the parts would still move around even with my 3rd hand stand. So I had an idea to order some liquid flux and solder paste. I have a heating gun with multiple tips and a temperature control on it. I've cranked the heat up to 450 degrees F at a medium airflow and the solder paste will melt. Using the hot air allows me to heat up the entire piece and concentrate heat in a small area to get the solder melting. Once the air leaves the soldered area it stays bonded while I solder the other part of the piece. It's been working extremely well. Solder paste is designed to basically wick up when heated so the joints are really clean looking with very little clean up afterwards. Applying the liquid flux with a small brush means creates a great deal of control as to where the solder paste bonds.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:09 AM
  #60  
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Wow, nice metal work on the jerry can holders!!!
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:13 PM
  #61  
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I added the footman loops on the hull to strap the jerry cans down, to finish off the can bracket project.
I finally finished the rear of the hull. I realized the thick cast door I bought was used on all the m50s except the m4a4 since it was already longer and didnt need clearance for the crank pully assembly. Thank God for good books.
I rounded off the bottom of the hull as well with bondo, that was actually more work than I expected. As well as got the lift ring mounts installed in the bondo mess. Also decided to add the access plates on the bottom of the hull back there. I though they looked cool in the real photo so they might add some zing to my model. Also completed the rear slope tow rings, not sure what they were for, and it seems many of the m50/51 tanks had them cut off right across the bottom if they lasted in service long enough.
Moving along, this tank is so close to being done, Im over it and want to move on to other things already sheesh. Need to get the turret rear grab bar installed and make up a mount for the spot light too. Its almost there....


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Old 10-13-2019, 07:58 AM
  #62  
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Well, I am nearly there guys. I got the hand railing along the bustle finally done. Ive been dredding doing this for some reason but its done now. I also got my bullet splash done around the gunners hatch. I think all I have left to do is to get the bracket for the sledge made from brass and then make the couple footman loops that hold the shovel in place on the side. Then its paint time. I gotta hurry because our October War Arab Israeli themed battle is later this month. We are hoping for a good turn out of Super Shermans and tan panzers and russian tanks. As far as we can tell this will be a first ever for themed events to have and IDF event.

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Old 10-13-2019, 10:14 AM
  #63  
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What a beauty! I'm enjoying this build rich
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:24 AM
  #64  
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I finished the sand paint coat yesterday evening after drill.
It looks so fresh and new Im gonna have to weather the crap out of it to represent the tank Im gonna mark it as.

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Old 10-22-2019, 07:56 AM
  #65  
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Looks great. Nice to see some color!!!
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:17 AM
  #66  
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Enjoy following your thread, cool detail work, outstanding model.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:13 PM
  #67  
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Ok here is the finished paint job. I dabbed a tad of paint after these photos were taken you might notice later on. Any way. This is it. The weathering shows up real good in the garage lighting but not in the outdoors. Natural light tends to wash the shading and weathering out.

I normally prefer clean fresh looking tanks. I only weathered a few of my builds. Not all. Some were just light shading of the OD some were a little more with the dirt and grime. This tank looked really good in fresh sand and it likely would have weathered well naturally like the 686 sand on current US vehicles does, it seems to absorb dirt and grime. But I was trying to match a stock photo of a particular tank so I went all out and came very close to the photo that I wanted. I am very happy with how it came to the photo, do I like it, well yes but I do prefer cleaner tanks. When i do an m51 it will be a little fresher looking.....

I still want to go back and finish a few things on this model but I needed to have it done for out October war IDF themed battle sunday so its done for now.
Follow up items are the spot light, jerry can straps, possibly wire up all the lights. Also might cut up a tamiya m4 intake hatch and make better doors. The 3d ones are just blah. My buddy inadvertantly ordered intake door castings from ECA and had them when I put all the equipment on his bare hull on his m51 last saturday and so I put them on his over the 3d printed ones. They looked good I just did not have the time to do the modeling and fuss with modding the tamiya part so I can follow that up later.
Colors are Testors model master Armor Sand Acrylic washed with tamiya nato black and redbrown. hull red testors rust were used for detail and highlights




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Old 10-24-2019, 09:27 PM
  #68  
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Here are a few more pictures that illustrate the weathering better and then a few out in the natural habitat. Fresh dunes are fun to drive in/over and they are very very soft but there is some tiny gravel that gets caught in idlers causing fouling and esc stalls. Got to drive carfull but litterally topping dunes one after another with no other prints in the sand is so much fun and then dropping into big holes where cars got stuck and actually driving out. My ez8 gets stuck it has T66 tracks and jams up every time. This tank is an excellent runner.
Oh if you were wondering what tank I painted it after just browse back to the top of the thread and see the prototype tank photos I posted, its the only one with the same turret symbol.



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Old 10-24-2019, 09:33 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
Here are a few more pictures that illustrate the weathering better and then a few out in the natural habitat. Fresh dunes are fun to drive in/over and they are very very soft but there is some tiny gravel that gets caught in idlers causing fouling and esc stalls. Got to drive carfull but litterally topping dunes one after another with no other prints in the sand is so much fun and then dropping into big holes where cars got stuck and actually driving out. My ez8 gets stuck it has T66 tracks and jams up every time. This tank is an excellent runner.
Oh if you were wondering what tank I painted it after just browse back to the top of the thread and see the prototype tank photos I posted, its the only one with the same turret symbol.



WOW great looking tank! I cannot wait to see it in action soon let alone fight my M51 next to it.
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:58 AM
  #70  
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Fantastic! You don't see many m4a4 with hvss so this makes a nice change!
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:03 PM
  #71  
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Wow, looks great Rich!!! Thanks fro sharing the photos!!!
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Old 10-26-2019, 09:01 AM
  #72  
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I just could not help myself last night.....


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Old 10-26-2019, 10:44 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
I just could not help myself last night.....


Looking forward to seeing this in action on your huge field in San Diego at your clubs IDF vs Arab theme battle on Sunday.
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:52 PM
  #74  
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Well, I spent a good part of the day doing my self fulfillment detailing work.
First last night I decided to cut up a tamiya engine access lid and make it into the two air filter doors just like how the IDF did in the first variant design.
They are hinged and I drilled holes for the speaker noise in the pads that are on the 3d printed deck that were supposed to represent the air filter doors but really were just too low, which prompted me to do what I did and I really like how it tricked out the deck.

I also got out the spot light and found some bracket photos on line to make it. Apparantly it had a hinge on the bottom rear so it could fold back, or at least some variants did. Some had short brackets and some had taller brackets. Aslo, if you look at my rear turret bustle top you see a square bracket reminiscent of the spot light bracket on the mantlet so I surmise that it is likely a spot light stowage bracket for when it is not mounted on the mantlet. Further, I hypothesize that they could have mounted the spot light backwards on the bustle to facilitate driving light since they spent more time driving with the turret turned backwards than forward.
So I hid a magnet in the bottom of my spot light and I have a tiny magnet that I slip under each bracket when I want to mount the spot light there. It looks really cool and is quite tight and sturdy.
For now, I think Im done. Eventyually I want to hook up the lights and pull the spot lense and put an LED in it and rig up the MG and its fiber optic. But no time for that now....Ille come back to it later on..




Last edited by RichJohnson; 10-26-2019 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 10-27-2019, 09:22 PM
  #75  
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Positively Nauseating Detail! Wouldn't have it any other way!
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