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Fire at Ludwig Modellbau

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Old 09-02-2019, 07:42 PM
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cleong
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Default Fire at Ludwig Modellbau

Sharing it here since maybe not everyone is on Facebook - it appears Christian Ludwig has suffered a fire in his hobby room and many items were affected. German translation wasn’t entirely clear but it seems styrene kit sales may be affected as well. It appears Christian was fortunately not seriously hurt while fighting the blaze.

Good luck with the recovery sir and I hope you can be back in the game soon.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:29 PM
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Dreadful news about a stalwart of our hobby and an all round nice guy,
I echo the good wishes.
My understanding is the fire was caused by an unattended Li-Po on charge,
So take heed that if it can happen to a very experienced professional it can happen to YOU!!!
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:53 AM
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Indeed sad news, I hope Chris & his business can recover from this

Mal
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Old 09-03-2019, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jarndice View Post
Dreadful news about a stalwart of our hobby and an all round nice guy,
I echo the good wishes.
My understanding is the fire was caused by an unattended Li-Po on charge,
So take heed that if it can happen to a very experienced professional it can happen to YOU!!!
Amen, had a Lipo flame up and burned holes in my carpeting, had to replace the whole room carpet - expensive battery charge

Careful too, even when you think its extinguished, the chemical reaction can re-flame right in your hand, as was my case when trying to throw it out the window!
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:24 AM
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Wow I hope everything is ok. Fire is my worst fear in the hobby, both at home and here at work.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:45 PM
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Christian is already rebuilding so expect he'll be back in the game very soon. Even had a delivery of ABS sheet arrive day after the fire.

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Old 09-09-2019, 07:27 AM
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Hopefully all of his CAD files and computer files were backed up off site. I wish him a speedy recovery.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:36 AM
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Can't keep a good guy down!

Jerry
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:47 PM
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I'm glad he is safe and rebuilding so quickly! Hopefully he had fire insurance. I know here if we had a fire it wouldn't be so lucky.....
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:14 PM
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It was pretty bad looking
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:30 PM
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Click image for larger version

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Old 09-11-2019, 07:50 AM
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Do we know how it started yet? One of my RC group's members had a house fire last year that took out half of his house, luckily no one was harmed.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:19 AM
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It was an unattended LiPo battery on the charger. There's been quite a discussion about this at rctw, and it has really brought lipo safety to the Forefront. What happened to Christian is absolutely terrible, but hopefully it will wake guys up to the importance of following the rules when you charge LiPO batteries.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:40 PM
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So over the course of many years I've had an Alkaline 9V battery blow apart, a NiMh battery over heat and the casing cover started to melt while in a charger and some other NiMh batteries just outright fail (but not catastrophically.

The 9 Volt Alkaline was dead and I put it on a shelf (used in a transmitter) and I forgot about it. One day I found something strange on the floor and I couldn't identify it. Then several days later I saw the other half of the 9 volt battery. It shot about three feet from where it was on the shelf, no idea if it was pressure or heat or what. And it wasn't a rechargable battery! Since then I always charge when I'm home, on a metal shelf with quality chargers regardless of the battery type. The NiMh that almost melted I heard a sizzling sound and upon inspection determined the sound came from my 8 cell charger. I saw the discoloring on one battery and almost got a bad burn when I pulled it out. Charger in the garbage, new charger ordered.

I do use Lipos but always when I'm home and can periodically check them when charging. I pull them out of the models for charging and use those Lipo bags (hoping they work). Dead batteries are also stored on noncombustible surfaces until I bring them for recycling.

So my recommendation is regardless of battery type please be careful and note that a fire can start. Neighbor two houses down had an electrical fire in the basement, not from a battery but old wiring, they were home and heard the fire crackling. Saved the house, I'm out in a rural area. We have a great volunteer fire department, they haven'y lost a basement yet!
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:35 PM
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"So my recommendation is regardless of battery type please be careful and note that a fire can start. Neighbor two houses down had an electrical fire in the basement, not from a battery but old wiring, they were home and heard the fire crackling. Saved the house, I'm out in a rural area. We have a great volunteer fire department, they haven'y lost a basement yet![/QUOTE]

That is a sale point that Rural Realtors are definitely missing
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:55 AM
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Keep reminding my wife NOT to charge her phone overnight. I've even heard a size D Zinc Carbon battery that was brand new just split apart. Batteries of all types are unstable, even automotive batteries while charging can get very weird.

So sad for the loss but so glad there was no loss of life!
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Panther F View Post
Keep reminding my wife NOT to charge her phone overnight. I've even heard a size D Zinc Carbon battery that was brand new just split apart. Batteries of all types are unstable, even automotive batteries while charging can get very weird.

So sad for the loss but so glad there was no loss of life!
Thank you for all the safety tips, specially the wife one!
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:07 AM
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As I understand it some flame proof charging bags are not as effective as we'd hope. I'm not really certain what to look for, not sure
if there are ratings or evaluations available for comparison. I believe just charging your LiPos or other potentially volatile batteries in
an unlined ammo box may not be sufficient if it is on or near something combustible as a battery fire can generate high temperatures.

I have been lax at times myself. I have mostly used NiCd batteries but they are getting difficult to find ( and still potentially dangerous
if not tended to properly) and can't beat the potential of LiPos so I have a growing number of them. I have smart chargers but I try to
charge out in a cement floored outdoor screen room st the side of my home. I'm thinking of finding a beater ammo box and line it
with the same refractory I use in my foundry furnaces( I have some left over) to use indoors if I need to. Must remember vents if lid used!
Still I don't want a battery going off in the house even if it doesn't cause a fire.

I guess it all boils down to not becoming complacent when dealing with these things. It's usually when we think all is right in the world
sitting next to a bomb with a smiley face on it when it all goes south...

Jerry
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:19 AM
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I've heard that lipos can sometimes flame even when you're not charging them. A couple of days ago a good friend gave me a good tip when I told him that I keep my lipos in an ammo can and he said, and now you should store the can in the oven.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Crius View Post
I've heard that lipos can sometimes flame even when you're not charging them. A couple of days ago a good friend gave me a good tip when I told him that I keep my lipos in an ammo can and he said, and now you should store the can in the oven.
Yea I'm that friend If you do have to store your batteries and dont have something like a battery safe (check these guys out: https://www.bat-safe.com/) then the oven will contain most fires, though it may ruin it in the process. Do not store your batteries outside or in the garage, you will have an issue at some point.
This is one of the reasons I'm so paranoid about lipos and charging. I've had a few friends have fires, I've had a few myself (luckily not the battery's fault but the electronics it was connected to), and I've watched people lose a ton of money in electronics as we watch the fireball rage. I love me a lipo personally and use them all the time, however a lot of care must go into them if you want to be safe with it. The battery safe I posted above actually is rated to both charge and store batteries in it and even has a filter to help tone down the fumes if you do get a flame up. My buddy also make a homemade storage box too real cheap, I'll get a picture from him tomorrow so we can copy it if needed.
I'm really glad it was something minor and that he lost nothing of substantial value (family, pets, etc), I enjoy his work and look forward to seeing more!
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:09 PM
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I’m just now reading where the USCG has issued a warning on unsupervised charging of cell phones and electronic device batteries after the tragic dive boat fire in California. While they have not as yet positively identified that as the cause they were suprised at the intensity of the fire and it’s mentioned that a lithium ion battery fire might explain it.
i watched the video included in this thread and when those batts flamed up it frankly shocked me,damn near like a small bomb going off.

Last edited by Panzer222; 09-12-2019 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:21 PM
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Ever since an American Air Freight Boeing 727 crashed in the Florida Everglades killing all on board the carriage of Li-Po battery's has been banned by the NTSB,
The investigation showed that the crate containing them was mishandled between the warehouse and the aircraft hold and one or more battery's ignited,
The fire escaped from the crate and burnt through the control cables.
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:34 PM
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We should be moving towards Li-ion for RC tanks, since weight and speed are not a factors at all.

I don't see the issue with sticking with a 5000mah nimh battery pack either. It pretty much lasts an hour for a 5kg tank at max volume with lights, which is more than anyone needs. If you go longer, then get 2 packs and charge one with a fast charger will using the other. Certainly cheaper than using lipos with a good charger, LVCs, and all the other tools you need to make it run safely.

All batteries will burn, but lipos are by far, the most temperamental and destructive.Can't take hard knocks, needs constant supervision while charging, need LVCs, charging bags (doesn't work - see youtube), and other nonsense.

Charging bags don't work either. The only way to reasonably store them is in an ammo box, lid off with a bad of sand on top, and even then, there's still smoke damage. Every other way is just asking for a fire.


Burning down a $1k tank aside, property damage is far more concerning. I'm a homeowner, and no lipos will ever be passing through my doors.
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Old 09-13-2019, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Crius View Post
I've heard that lipos can sometimes flame even when you're not charging them. A couple of days ago a good friend gave me a good tip when I told him that I keep my lipos in an ammo can and he said, and now you should store the can in the oven.
Yes.Absolutely.I have all of my batteries stored in the oven.I think this is the best place to do this.
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Old 09-13-2019, 06:17 AM
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Dingo battler, I agree with most of what you said, but as for the 5000 NIHMs, just try getting one of those in a stug!! I like lipos for their small size and the fact that the same size battery will give you much much more run time. If you look closely at all the bad things that have happened, they were ALL caused because the person did NOT follow the safety rules. If you follow all the safety rules, there's nothing wrong with LiPO batteries, but if you are the kind that has trouble following rules, I would say lipos are not for you. I use them all the time, I always follow all the proper safety regulations and I have never had one single problem.
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