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HAYA 1/16 RC Chieftain

Old 10-24-2019, 02:34 PM
  #26  
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Got these direct off Andrew at Haya ltd today. Might shed a bit more light on the Chieftan MFU and TX and the various functions that will be standard on the tank.
MFU schematic


TX schematic

Last edited by tankman; 10-24-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:11 PM
  #27  
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This is the Heng Long 6.1 MFU right from the manual. Other then a simple HAYA TK 6.3 sticker shown above they are the same MFU. The transmitter shown above is the new Heng Long transmitter that will be coming with the 6.1 tanks. Regardless the TK 6._ series is proving pretty darn good. Hopefully the new transmitter will have more of a hobby grade feel to it.


Listed feature and what slot each goes into are the same.



Close up. Changing a label does not change who manufactures it.









Last edited by Fsttanks; 10-24-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:01 AM
  #28  
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Thanks for that Fsttanks, I stand corrected on that point. I appreciate your input on this as we are aiming to give an honest review and this has come as news to us. We can confirm the new handset is more of a hobby grade feel than the older controllers and the Chieftain has positive and smooth driving characteristics as we did get a chance to run them round a bit.
We will be back in contact with Haya ltd to get the latest information on a few points, prior to the review to ensure we are up to speed with all that is going on, as you have shown not much point in doing a review if your giving out incorrect or outdated info.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:20 AM
  #29  
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Having spoken to Andrew the project director at Haya ltd at length on some of the points raised in this thread I will take the opportunity to relay his answers as he is not a member on this forum.

The main points we raised to Haya ltd were, is this model in any way directly connected to the Heng Long brand and is Haya ltd partly or fully a subsidiary of Heng Long. The emphatic answer to that was a no. Andrew was at pains to say although his company Haya ltd is pleased to be the Official Heng Long distributor for the UK it is none the less a separate and totally independent company in its own right and has dealt not only with HL but also with Torro, Matorro and others in the RC model industry. He reiterated one again that the Chieftain is the sole property of Haya ltd U.K. and has been designed, manufactured and assembled by Haya ltd’s team in there own China based manufacturing facility and has been branded to reflect this ownership. He also pointed out no other company has had input or ownership of the Chieftain nor will any other company be selling or producing the Chieftain unless specifically authorised through Haya ltd U.K.

He was also quite amused when questioned about having family connections to the Heng Long company. His reply was “ life might be much simpler if I was so lucky. Unfortunately I have no blood or other family ties to them “. So We think that clears that misconception up once and for all.

He was happy to confirm Haya had used some of the same common components as HL. He explained his reasoning behind this decision as follows, “these components are available to a number of manufactures of RC models from suppliers in China, they are already in production and have a proven record in the RC market and are readily available to the hobby community world wide so why go to the trouble and expense of re-inventing the wheel”.

As for the electronics package we’ve been informed this was again bought by Haya ltd from a common manufacturer based in China for the same reasons as mentioned previously and these products are readily avalible to various RC model company’s. Andrew has told us he did not know HL was using the same system in there premium all metal tanks until he made some calls to China after we let him know of fasttracks post here on RCU and he was concerned as some aspects of the system he ordered were supposed to be exclusive to Haya ltd. As we had not seen or heard of the HL 6.1 system before we mistakenly assumed it was exclusive to the Haya ltd Chieftain and can only apologise for not getting it right and being guilty of shooting from the lip and not checking facts first.

Andrew from Haya ltd has also asked us to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Haya ltd U.K. has a website and he is happy to directly address any concerns or questions customers may have about any of his products.

Sorry about the long reply gents, just trying to give an honest review of a product from a hobby point of view and cover the points raised in the thread. There are a few points worth looking at and the HL V6.1 system is one of these points. Can anyone supply a link to this system as I spent over an hour looking on the net and found nothing other than the HL V6.0 being mentioned.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:27 AM
  #30  
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All this makes perfect sense. From a Mfr standpoint. Gear boxes, electronics, detail parts, some may be made or used by HL and possibly others and are a Type Standard, so why reinvent the wheel. IMHO this is where Hooben blew it with their Fury EZ8. Everything is their own design.
The one thing I think is a huge deal on this tank is the wheels for now appear to be plastic rolling on plastic axles. That is a death sentence in a short amount of time if you drive it in dirt alot. They need to add in a brass busing like taigen did on their first model sherman or install bearings on the wheels to stop the plastic to plastic wear that will destroy the axle and make the hole in the wheel bigger.
I had to replace the wheels and axles on my HL sherman as I drove them to death.
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:48 AM
  #31  
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A fair point about the road-wheel set up RichJohnson and one that RCTR has put to Haya ltd for future productions as this has been an ongoing issue with most of the tanks RCTR club members run. A couple of solutions have been used by our members to try and overcome this shortfall such as the fitting of aftermarket bearings in our tanks where possible/practical or fitting brass bushings where bearings are not an option.

Looking at the Chieftains wheel setup it appears like bushings may be the easy way to go. The wheel shaft on the plastic swing arm is 5mmOD, so a 5mmID ( 6mmOD ) brass tube cut to length will fit over it. Then it’s a case of drilling out the wheels to take a 6mmID ( 7mmOD) brass tube cut to length. There is enough plastic in our opinion if you wish to fit 5mmID bearings with an outside diameter of no more than 10mm And a depth of not more than 3mm. Up to the individual which option is the most practical for there abilities and/or needs.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:39 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by tankman View Post
Having spoken to Andrew the project director at Haya ltd at length on some of the points raised in this thread I will take the opportunity to relay his answers as he is not a member on this forum.

The main points we raised to Haya ltd were, is this model in any way directly connected to the Heng Long brand and is Haya ltd partly or fully a subsidiary of Heng Long. The emphatic answer to that was a no. Andrew was at pains to say although his company Haya ltd is pleased to be the Official Heng Long distributor for the UK it is none the less a separate and totally independent company in its own right and has dealt not only with HL but also with Torro, Matorro and others in the RC model industry. He reiterated one again that the Chieftain is the sole property of Haya ltd U.K. and has been designed, manufactured and assembled by Haya ltd’s team in there own China based manufacturing facility and has been branded to reflect this ownership. He also pointed out no other company has had input or ownership of the Chieftain nor will any other company be selling or producing the Chieftain unless specifically authorised through Haya ltd U.K.

He was also quite amused when questioned about having family connections to the Heng Long company. His reply was “ life might be much simpler if I was so lucky. Unfortunately I have no blood or other family ties to them “. So We think that clears that misconception up once and for all.

He was happy to confirm Haya had used some of the same common components as HL. He explained his reasoning behind this decision as follows, “these components are available to a number of manufactures of RC models from suppliers in China, they are already in production and have a proven record in the RC market and are readily available to the hobby community world wide so why go to the trouble and expense of re-inventing the wheel”.

As for the electronics package we’ve been informed this was again bought by Haya ltd from a common manufacturer based in China for the same reasons as mentioned previously and these products are readily avalible to various RC model company’s. Andrew has told us he did not know HL was using the same system in there premium all metal tanks until he made some calls to China after we let him know of fasttracks post here on RCU and he was concerned as some aspects of the system he ordered were supposed to be exclusive to Haya ltd. As we had not seen or heard of the HL 6.1 system before we mistakenly assumed it was exclusive to the Haya ltd Chieftain and can only apologise for not getting it right and being guilty of shooting from the lip and not checking facts first.

Andrew from Haya ltd has also asked us to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Haya ltd U.K. has a website and he is happy to directly address any concerns or questions customers may have about any of his products.

Sorry about the long reply gents, just trying to give an honest review of a product from a hobby point of view and cover the points raised in the thread. There are a few points worth looking at and the HL V6.1 system is one of these points. Can anyone supply a link to this system as I spent over an hour looking on the net and found nothing other than the HL V6.0 being mentioned.

Thank you for passing on what Andrew spoke with you about. I am well versed with the "ins and outs" of manufacturing and how I read what Andrew from HAYA is basically saying in manufacturing "PR talk", is they out sources all the parts for production from "XYZ" companies (majority of which from Heng Long) then assemble all the parts at their warehouse. Hence, the we build the entire tank in house theme to their communications with you, me and others.

I have no doubt that HAYA did all the R&D work and I applaud them for taking the risk in such a small niche market. I also have no problem with them using HL parts as I have had no real issues with these over the years. Just wish that for the overly high (low introductory) price they had used a higher grade of gearboxes, ball bearing in the wheels and could provide a positive YES to the availability of spare parts. All would better match what others offer for a similar price.

We are all waiting for the photos of your test tank. If you could please when you post these include a photo of the molded in company logo usually found on the bottom side of the lower hull. Would love to see if say HAYA inc.

Last edited by Fsttanks; 10-26-2019 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 10-26-2019, 12:15 PM
  #33  
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I've run a small business and with that comes a few facts. I couldn't buy wholesale at the same price that say Walmart could; therefore, I paid more and had to sell my product for more than Walmart did. I understand the higher price of this tank than say a HL. HL now has a long history of producing tanks, selling them, dealing with their vendors, and paying their bills. I'm sure HL doesn't produce all of the parts of it's tanks using in house HL factories. I don't know of any product that is produced 100% "in house". When a small company wants to get into the manufacturing game, suppliers are justified in having some trepidation of getting into business with a company that has unproven business practices. I would say that a higher price would be quoted to a company requesting a small run. Firstly the manufacturer wants to make sure the company they are doing business with is serious about the relationship. Secondly they want to build in some slush to make money due to the unknowns. And thirdly the vendor is producing in a small quantity and so doesn't get as high of a volume discount on it's raw materials. Lastly, the company commissioning the build will often charge a higher initial price to cover R&D, unknowns, and to provide capital for future releases. It is a large investment to get a product to market using injection molding. There is no guarantee that the product you produce is even going to sell once you produce it. There is a ton of risk and it all falls on the shoulders of the company commissioning the build. I applaud Haya for doing this. I can't even recall all of the vendors that have made promises of this release or that release and never followed through. I have never seen a perfect tank for sale in 1/16 scale. All of them I've worked on needed some upgrades of some form to fix something the vendor overlooked (and yes even my Tamiyas) or needed improvement to meet my expectations. It may not even be overlooked, but an issue of manufacturing the part that way or something as simple as cost. I have no special bond with the Chieftain, but I simply liked the looks of the the tank and have zero complaints so far about the price. If the extra money keeps Haya making interesting tanks...I'm happy to pay it - within reason. $1800 for a 1/16 scale Maus is a little unreasonable to me seeing as I spent that much on my first real, full sized motorcycle.
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Old 10-27-2019, 07:34 AM
  #34  
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Picture of Haya ltd company logo on Chieftain lower hull as requested.
In answer to fasttracks and Tankme observations about spares and tank components. Andrew has assured us he will stand by his product in regards to spare parts and upgrades, He says Haya ltd has allowed for an extra percentage in production for a guaranteed spares supply and he will also be selling the correctly cast metal tracks, drive sprockets, idler and metal track tensioner system for the Chieftain as upgrade/spare parts.
We also took the opportunity when we picked up the Chieftain for review to question Andrew on why Haya ltd had not gone the extra mile by putting bearings in the road- wheels or fitting premium gearboxes. He explanation was as follows “ This is our first time at developing and producing an RC model and we had a lot to learn from the outset. The costs of components and having injection moulds made were higher than anticipated and making design changes to parts to include additional features would have resulted in renewing or modifying the existing moulds which would just push the price of a model even higher and delayed delivery. As for the premium gearboxes with bearings throughout there introduction to the market was to late for us to take advantage of as we had already sourced our supplier and once again there would have been extra costs and potential delay to the launch. We are however looking at what can cost effectively be included in any future models we may develop in the future”. Lastly the requested picture of the Haya ltd logo on the Chieftain lower hull. Hope this answers some of your concerns gents, full review to follow ASAP.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:28 AM
  #35  
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Nice. Also confirms the 1st addition to make - jacking plates to add to the four corners of the underside - see post 18 October - Chinese Eye Chieftain - Page 8 - Armortek -

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Old 10-27-2019, 12:02 PM
  #36  
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Nicely spotted Mal, a useful detail touch there that I knew nothing about. Thanks for posting that.

Alan
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Old 10-27-2019, 12:30 PM
  #37  
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Hi Alan
The Armortek Chieftain forum is a great source for chieftain stories & obscure detail, the jacking plates were new to me too, though have since seen them in one or two old chieftain photos.
Another obscure item is the Battle Link that I've not seen mentioned in any of my reference books - I'll let you find that one yourself, rather than provide a direct link - you'll enjoy the journey.
To get you there - the vicinity anyway - Chieftain MBT - Armortek -

Mal
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:41 PM
  #38  
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Thanks Mal will do.

Alan
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:02 PM
  #39  
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I have persuaded DKLM to pre-order some for the club and myself.

We will definitely persuade him to release upgrade parts again if it helps.
I am think maybe some photo-etch for the basket and details as well as metal reinforcement.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:39 PM
  #40  
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I really feel for Andrew/Haya and the trials the Chieftain had to go through to come to market - first it was accused as being a copy of another guy's scratchbuild, then it gets mistaken for a rebranded Heng Long (but not without good reason). In any case it is a good-looking tank and even though the UK pound is weak, being here in Singapore, it sounds a bit silly to buy a tank that was made in China, shipped halfway across the world to the UK and then shipped 2/5ths of the way back to me.
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Old 10-31-2019, 10:07 AM
  #41  
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Two things - any progress on the Review?
And the shipment was due to land in the UK on 30 October - any word if that happened?

Mal
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Old 10-31-2019, 10:51 AM
  #42  
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Hi Mal, the review is written and I just have to attach some pictures cross a few T’s and dot the last i’s and we’re good to go. I won’t have chance to do much Friday sorry to say, as I have a club meet on Saturday and will be getting tanks ready for that. Andrew informs us the shipment of Chieftains has arrived in the U.K. and is in the process of clearing customs. He is hoping to pick up the shipment late next week. I will keep you guys updated on both the review and when Haya ltd take delivery of there stock.
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Old 10-31-2019, 12:37 PM
  #43  
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Hi Tankman
Cool. Did a review of Chieftain too - the book " Chieftain, Britain's Flawed Masterpiece" - Chieftain - Britain's Flawed Masterpiece - Richard Kent -
Good to hear they've arrived.

Thanks
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:56 AM
  #44  
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Just picked up mine today.
It is clearly an solid design and improvement over any stock HL, but honestly it is no Tamiya. Components can be upgraded and details can be added.

Would like to see what everybody want to upgrade the most, so we can make those parts first. My vote is for the commander cupola. A replacement with more details would be nice.
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:46 AM
  #45  
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Wheels with bearings should be the first upgrade.
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:56 AM
  #46  
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Hi Longsheep
Any pics of the cupola?
There is a 360 Turret rotation upgrade already available.

Mal
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Old 11-06-2019, 05:53 AM
  #47  
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Default Haya Chieftain review.


























The Haya ltd 1/16th scale Chieftain tank review.




The Radio Controlled Tank Regiment have been lucky enough to be given access to the new Haya ltd 1/16th scale RC Chieftain tank.

We were asked by Andrew the project Manger of Haya ltd to review his model and give an honest opinion of this independent company’s first foray into 1/16th scale RC tank design and production.
First impression was that this is a big model, with a nice factory paint job. On closer inspection the details start to make themselves apparent, these are nicely moulded with some unique and innovative design features.

Our first example of this was access to the on/off switch situated under the drivers hatch, no simple lift and turn here. It is held down by two small functional latches. Then it was push down the hatch to disengage the spring lock, and up she pops to clear the hull. So no more scrapped paintwork or snapped hatch’s while gaining access to your on off switch.

Some of the other features that help lift this model out of the ordinary are having a working gun travel lock, functioning lids on the hull storage and tool boxes, metal tow ropes and a cover that can be opened to expose the switchable working searchlight.

As expected the commanders and loaders hatches open to allow figures ( available separately ) and/or the magnetic IR receiver to be mounted on the turret. Another nice touch is the two supplied cloth thermal shroud covers that fit on the 4 piece aluminium barrel that help to give it that authentic Chieftain look.

On this model the aluminium barrel itself will come in four pieces. This will allow you to unscrew it for ease of transport or take it apart of maintenance in the event of a blockage. What blockage I hear you ask ? . Well this model has another feature and that is it can fire BB’s and simultaneously recoil the barrel. More on this feature later.

A couple of observations on these features are the working travel lock can’t be used to hold the gun barrel unless you fit an aftermarket 360 degree rotation ring to the turret as it only turns 320 degree with the standard fitted ring. The opening tool and storage box lids could be prone to damage if not treated with a little care. Stating the obvious we know but well worth mentioning.

Now onto the lower hull features, the main ones being the idler wheels are fitted with bearings and the gearbox drive shafts are supported with bearings as standard.

Also both models have a functioning track adjustment system with an active spring action. This means you can tension the tracks to suite the terrain you will be running your tank on, and if you should get a small bit of debris in the track you have a further 4 to 6mm of compression available in the tensioner system. In theory this will allow the track to “ flex “ to clear the debris rather than break.

The lower hull is well moulded out of good quality ABS plastic and seems quite robust. With Haya ltd and it’s accompanying Welsh dragon logo prominently moulded into the hull bottom. The Chieftain comes in two versions the all plastic base version and the metal pro version.

The plastic version has the standard white nylon gearboxes and plastic track adjustment system, as well as ( Walker Bulldog )plastic tracks, drive and idler wheel.

Whereas the pro has steel CNC cut steel gearboxes, metal track adjuster system and correctly cast Chieftain metal tracks, metal drive and idler wheels.. Both models have a Horstman style suspension and work in the same manner as the real tank.

Upper and lower hull attachment on the Haya ltd Chieftain is via two clips on the front of the upper and lower hull. The rear is held down by screws located under the two fuel filler caps located at the rear of the upper deck. So you just unscrew the two rear screws and lift and pull to release the hull halves. Lower hull flex is no more than in any other plastic hulled model of this size. Once the upper hull is attached and screwed down it’s a good solid model.

However the pro version might benefit from some scratch built additional hull bracing being added by the owner, just to err on the side of caution due to the extra stresses and weight added by the metal parts.

The elevation, rotation and BB unit are the same as those used in Heng Long and other 1/16th scale tanks as these are readily available and cheap to replace if ever the need arises.

We took this opportunity to ask Haya ltd about back up and spares and we were told by Andrew that he will stand by his model and Haya ltd is producing extra mouldings to allow for an additional supply of spares. Haya ltd also pointed out that a lot of the components used in the model were also used by other manufactures in there models. So there is already a supply of spares on the market.

We were also informed that the correct metal tracks for the Chieftain as well as metal drive sprockets, idlers and track tensioner would be available for spares if required or as upgrade parts.

There is also depending on demand a possibility of making metal road wheels with rubber rims. This option is only being considered by Haya ltd as we said and depends on if there is enough interest from the hobby community for these items.

Now we get to the 2.4Ghz control system or brains of the Chieftain. The system has 2 outputs for servos, switched lights on the front and turret allowing for front lights on or off and independent control of the main search light and commanders lights on or off, working brake lights, a choice of 4 different sounds with a 8ohm 4 watt speaker and enclosure giving a reasonable level of volume and sound quality, 3 levels of tank track recoil ( 0-3 ) and a semi Tamiya compatible IR battle system. It is much the same system as currently being fitted to the Heng Long premium metal hulled tanks. Although there are a few design differences between systems.

This means it will take and give hits to most if not all Tamiya compatible IR systems ( it has been tested against Tamiya, El-mod and Heng Long equipped tanks ). It however does not slow down to simulate battle damage as do the Tamiya compatible systems and just stops for a few seconds with flashing lights and a “ wiggle” making it vulnerable. Destruction is indicated with a Tamiya like destroyed sound after 6 shots. The model will reset after about 5 seconds. This puts it at about the medium setting on a Tamiya compatible tank.

Another point worth mentioning is the Chieftain IR range, inside is fine with ranges of over 10m being achieved for giving and taking hits at all angles, that range dropped for taking a hit however in bright sunlight when we went outside to about 5m. We suspect the range would increase if the receiver had fins fitted to reduce IR interference from the sun.

Some clubs may not find favour with this system as an IR battle tank. However RCTR think it a suitable system for “ fun “ battling to introduce new members to the hobby without breaking the bank. But we think it’s probably not best suited to use in a more “ formal” style of IR battling and will keep to the Tamiya compatible systems as the hobby standard for those more serious IR battles. Not knocking the system in any way as for your money you get “quite a bang for your buck” as they say and a good introduction to the IR side of the hobby if that’s your thing.

The system has a stylish 2.4Ghz handset that runs off 4 AAA size batteries and provides a smooth driving experience. Slow speed control is good as are all other inputs. The models lights can be switched on and off from the handset as well as changing the tank sound set and tank recoil jerk. So overall a nice intermediate level control system for an off the shelf RTR tank.

The upper hull and turret are dimensionally accurate and well moulded in high quality ABS plastic and has a lot of detail moulding to catch the eye for an RTR Model and offers a true and accurate rendering of this iconic tank. The two tone factory paint scheme is a reasonably accurate representation of a standard British colour scheme of the period, markings are also representative of this period as well.

One last feature worthy of a mention is the combined BB/recoil system, this system uses a standard HL BB/recoil system, but the recoil is achieved via a servo controlled by the board. So you can fire a BB but have a pro typical recoil action which looks a lot more realistic than a standard recoil unit.

Haya ltd took pains to get this model right. Taking advice from Robert Griffin author of “Chieftain main battle tank “ Consulting blueprints and other reference material, this approach has obviously paid dividends, being endorsed by both Robert and Bovington tank museum.

All in all a good quality model with a lot of features in a RTR tank designed, owned and produced exclusively by Haya ltd a U.K. based company, not cheap by any means, but not that much more expensive than a pro version Torro and cheaper than most of Tamiya’s 1/16th full option offerings. Can you get a production model of this tank cheaper elsewhere I here you ask, short answer is no you can’t as no other manufacturer produces or has plans to produce one at this time. There are other Chieftains out there that are 3d printed that you have to assemble, paint,equip and fit out. When you factor in all those costs and the time you will have to devote to get a running model with all the features mentioned previously you realise it’s not going to be that much, if any cheaper going down that particular road than buying the RTR version with Haya ltd’s full back up and spares service behind it.

We feel it worth mentioning here that RCRT nor any of its members have any financial ties with Haya ltd and that RCTR nor any of its members have asked or received any form of gratuities from Haya ltd or any of its employees for writing this review. Haya ltd has also asked us to let everyone know they are more than happy to answer any questions or concerns people may have about any of there models through there website at :-

https://www.hayaltd.co.uk/
















Last edited by tankman; 11-06-2019 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:59 AM
  #48  
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Hi Tankman
Excellent review & photo's.

Mal
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:47 AM
  #49  
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Your more than welcome Mal. Glad it was of some use.
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:02 AM
  #50  
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Yes, an excellent review indeed, but I still think the price is way, way too high for what it is. It's an all plastic tank, with the wrong plastic tracks and plastic gear boxes and they want even more money than they get for a full metal Torro that has Steel gearboxes and metal tracks and all the rest. I imagine those who have been waiting for this tank for many years might not mind spending the money, but there's no way you'll get me to Fork out that kind of cash for an all plastic tank.
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