lposter

I have been rooting out various boxes and have a range of items the purpose of which I have no clue.

If anyone knows whet they are and where I might get a manula or something I would be grateful.



I have three of these. There are no labels and no identifying marks on the boards or the bags. They have a USB port on one end but came with no cablesor anything. I dont know why I have three. They are obviously rc related as they have RX and TX on them.




This one has a lot of cables with it and some servo leads. The black thing is either a button or a beeper speaker or something.



These boards look a lot like the second item but have less or different cables and the button/beeper is different.

I dont think they are speakers as they are a bit small?

Any help with what they are, where I can get instructions or manuals and whether or not they are worth having at all would be helpful.

P

jha13

Hi,
on the first picture the three items are FTDI-adapter.
On the other three pictures ist a little soundmodule "DasMicro", this is a clone of the Benedini TBS Micro.

lposter

That was quick! Is there a manual for the Micro thing ?

What is the FD thing used for in practice?

jha13

Did you know google?

lposter

sure do. And it couldn't find one in the few minutes I tried. Did find some long discussions on something called an "Orlandoo" but enthusiast dissections of "hacking" the thing are hardly instructions now are they?

jha13

because i have less the 10 posts, cannot post links...

lposter

Fair enough. If you have anything I would be grateful. All I've found is in depth instructions on soldering tiny wires in tiny holes and using benedini softwares.

Which doesn't sound legal to me. All I really want to do is see if the things are useful as they are.

P

Tanque

You have an interesting list of scratch build projects- have you build threads somewhere on these?

Jerry

Tanque

I've used the original Benedini mini ( as well as the clone I'm sorry to admit) and the original is better although the clone works also.

Benedini provides first rate support, advice and it's worth the price...

Jerry

lposter

I found a thread on rctw about using this clone thing. It seems a bit hit and miss with soldering and out of date drivers and everything.

And using Mr Benedinis own software to work with a ripped off version of his own product sticks in the throat a little! That's how people go out of business!

I don't know why I bought these things ..... I don't even remember them.

I will get a benedini or a beier. I wish there were more sound options out there or at least cheaper/less fancy ones.........

P

jha13

Yes, my build reports can be found at the RCTW and HLPF forum

Tanque

I have to admit I bought a pair of the clones before I realized what they were; I was naive essentially. One I realized what they are
I went to Benedini himself and bought his stuff. The clones are in a box in my closet. I also don't wish to undermine Mr Benedini's work.

Jerry

Crius

I would usually agree and use the original benedini instead of the clone, but then I found out what kind of profit margin he has and don't feel so sorry for him anymore. The TBS mini is over $100 and the clones (when first introduced) could be had for less than $20. Being overcharged is the part that sticks in my throat.

jha13

cloned hardware with stolen firmware and illegally used software - is this the right way?

Programming the firmware and software is for nothing?
that takes more time than designing hardware!

lposter

I'd pay 80 euro extra to avoid soldering, buying other necessary items, faffing about with drivers, having no support, having to "obtain" software etc etc. And spending hours reading on how to maybe get something working in the end.

p

lposter

Benedinis prices are very similar to similar products from Beier, MrRC, Modelsounds Inc. So he is only overcharging relative to Chinese mass produced copies made by people earning a bowl of rice or something.

I object paying a lot for things that lock me into a specific model. Like Tiger specific gearboxes or something.

But Beier and Benedini cards can be used in anything and can go from any model to any other. I like that flexibility.

I don't care what people do or feel comfortable with.

I personally feel its important to support small, quality producers.

If we support ChineseChineses over the genuine items, then we won't be able to complain about "outsourcing our jobs" and all that.

P

Crius

Like I said, I would ordinarily agree. I refuse to buy the knock-off resin figures because I know the original artist doesn't see any profit from that, but I don't knock the people that do buy them. It's a free market, and up to the individual how he wants to spend his money. For me, the das mikro works great in RC trucks right out of the box and I don't need the benedini software or anything else from that company. I'm not going to pay $110 for an original to put in a $35 truck when I can do the same job with a $20 clone. After seeing the profit margin, I'm sure that Mr. Benedini is making plenty of money so I don't feel sorry for him at all. I just run my trucks.

Tanque

Ahhhh yes the old how much profit is ok discussion..... I know it well.

My little foray into selling tank electronics of some years back aside.... I've been there.

I once, actually several times made motions of selling original cast parts I made. Two things happened.

If I listed a part for $xx I'd get guys who would gripe; " why isn't it $xx/2 because I need more than one of them?"
Or my favorite: " why do you charge so much, it didn't cost you anything to make it?"

I'm still relatively reeling from the loss of Martin Schroeder.. (aka Geiβwerk. aka Mr track links). His prices were through the roof
but if you ever saw his work and knew how much effort , time and money he put into his products ( and lesser known the personal
guarantees of them) perhaps none of us would have pitched a fit the first time we saw them. Now that he's 'gone whatcha gonna do'?

These are some of the reasons why even if you put my toes into a fire I'll never sell anything again. Who am I to decide what someone else should be able to charge for their art, intellectual property, music or handiwerk?? Who is anyone else to take issue with what I feel I want for having taken the time to learn a skill, create an item, put my investment dollars on the line or use my creativity to make a thing. If I don't like a price ( I think Audi wants too much for their R8 series - not fair!) I'm free to move on and if I were to sell anything ever again.... well you know.

Jerry

lposter

I don't know how much Benedini or Beier or the others make on there products.....its not really my business..... but assuming they make a massive amount of money based on what a Chinese sweat shop making thousands of units can make them for...... it seems like an unfair comparison.

Using the same logic....no one should buy an American car as the chinese make knock off copies for much cheaper therefore the American company is ripping people off?

If Benedini takes 2 hours to assemble and test and pack and post unit, and assumes each unit represents a 1 hour portion of the total research and development time and assumes he will spend 1 hour per unit in support on average.......if he gives himself minimum German wage of 10 euro.....that's 40 euro. His units cost 130 euro before vat so that's 90 euro. He takes from this material costs, taxes on income, printing of manuals, packaging costs etc....and may end up with 50 euro profit per unit? Maximum?

I don't think that's a ripoff just because an authoritarian regime produces lower quality units with no manual, support or service for less.

And that's the only argument being made really. The chinese make them cheaper so we must be getting ripped off by everyone else.

P

jha13

This is absolute bull****!
I know Thomas Benedini and met him several times.
He had to close his model shop three years ago and take a job.
The sound modules are only sold online and he no longer develops any new modules.
He didn't get rich with it, he lost a lot of money with it.

Rad_Schuhart

Hi everybody. I am the one who wrote that thread at RCTW and also the one who published the Benedini tutorials and reviews at Rad Industries, and I think I'd should say something here.

Like many of us, I started using the pirate aliexpress version. I remember getting them for something like 15 euros free shipping, which considering the original price, was an absolute bargain. Only shipping germany-austria is something like that, so go and figure. I always thought his prices were outrageous for what we were really getting. I wrote my web entry and my tutorials and I got HEAPS of contacts requesting support for benedini products. Some time later even Mr Benedini himself contacted me through my website and we started talking a bit.

After deep experimenting with his hardware and software, I found there was a LOT of job behind it, and it is very, very clever (though complicated) and usefull. Being able to trigger so many functions with only one channel is something definitely you don't see anywhere.
I do know most people underrate those boards and I have loads of proofs of it: Most don't know they are also able to control many things like heaps of fully programmable independent lights, smoke, and more. Many don't even know they can change the sounds and add their own. And many of those who know it, are just not able to do it with their crappy tamiya/futaba and Carson radios, but man, really, Benedini boards are really awesome. I have not seen anybody able to implement such an ammount of functions in a nail size board.

The time designing it, the time creating the sound sets (which is a pain to do!) and the desperating long times that I am sure it took him to answer emails to people who don't know which side is the positive in an AA battery makes me justify his prices a lot more. You all know I am a cheapskate and God knows I believe he would sell much more if his prices were more reasonable, but I say it is worth to support the creator a bit, so if you can afford it, I do recommend getting the boards from Benedini himself.

Sadly the TBS micro is not produced anymore by him, but you still can get the mini and the mini V2 which has a sound lenght of 28 minutes. Totally worth it.

Couple of examples of what I did with the micros:

And many more, in many toys more.

lposter

Hi Rad

Many thanks for the input. I have to ask..... Benedinis prices are a little lower than his non-asian-pirate competitors and you say his cards are very clever indeed.

So how are they unreasonable if the prices are equivalent to his non-asian-pirate competitors on both sides of the Atlantic?

It's not a case of the usual German prices....his cards are the same price or less than even cards made in Canada or somewhere with less functions.

So.... if his cards are competitive with relevant competitors, they only become unreasonable when compared to those made in sweat shops in the east by 12 year old working 14 hour days for peanuts.

It's not a fair yard stick to judge him by.

P

Crius

So how do you feel about giving stuff away? Bwahahaha

Yeah, something told I shoulda stayed out of this one.

Seriously, though, yours was a valiant effort, Jerry, and you know firsthand it's a tough business. Remember Dan (YHR)? I think he was the first guy I heard say, "If you want to start a business in the RC Hobby and have a million dollars at the end of your first year ... you need to start with two million dollars.

Just to be clear, I never said anyone was ripping anyone off. However, I have a great deal of respect for Rad's talents and opinions so hear him say he thought the price was too high tells me I'm not being totally unreasonable. I freely admit that at times I can be completely unreasonable, so I need to check once in a while. Sorry to hear about Thomas, but my position here is unchanged. I try to do what I can, where I can, but I'm not spending an extra $90 to put sound in a toy truck. If I ever build an Armortek I will definitely get a real Benedini, the best he has, but for the trucks I'll save the money, and not knock anyone else that tries to save a buck or two. I know there are a lot who always want stuff cheaper, I'm guilty myself, but remember we're dealing with people, and they can be pretty horrible when you think about it. I do believe mankind might be the worst thing that ever happened to this planet. Ask the people of the forest. Palm oil, my eye. The solution shouldn't be worse than the problem. But, that's another argument (got off on a tangent for a second there), so I'll keep trying to do what I can, where I can, I'll try to be tolerant of those who go a different route or disagree with my opinions, and I'll just keep running my trucks. Peace, Brothers.

Rad_Schuhart

Having others charging the same, if not more, does not justify the prices of anything. Imagine you want to buy a banana at the supermarket and they want to charge you 50 bucks for it, and if you complain, they tell you "Hey, everybody does it!"
I also I must say I come from Spain, where the minimum wage was till last year about 600 Eur a month. It means many people there were earning just that. There is a big bunch of european countries with even fewer montly income. So now, with this perspective, if you earn 600 Eur after one month of hard work, how could you justify 100ish for such a tiny board, when you can get one from asia for 1/10 the price? And I am talking of europe, not third world countries...

But I agree, other boards I have seen have way less functions and price is about the same, but I guess are extreme impopular because those two reasons. Maybe if they had more reasonable prices, they would be everywhere too. Most users don't need all the Benedini functions and are more than happy with just basic motor sounds.

Crius: Nope, you are not being unreasonable at all, in fact I agree with you. Also, as you know for some reason it seems most of German sellers sell with super proud prices, and most German RC guys seem to be more than happy to throw bags of gold to them. That is something I have not seen in any other country, but hey... Aristotle said the virtue lies on the middle point, so I guess we, customers would be able and willing to buy more, and sellers would sell much more. Everybody happy!

Anyway, pity Benedini is not going to produce more of his stuff, it is a great loss to the hobby. Hope he comes back to the business at some point.
There was also a promishing prototype sound card by Luke, the man from Open Panzer, which is also great and super easy to use. All the diagrams are open source but it seems nobody wants to start making it. Pity.

lposter

I agree that sound cards are expensive and I cannot afford many at all.

But the argument that that makes it OK to buy what are essentially products based on stolen designs is spurious.

The Chinese won't innovate and make new sound cards with new features that many, including yourself, appreciate. Buying Chinese pirated copies drives folk like Benedini, who do innovate, out of the market and result in the only thing left to buy being no manual, no support, low quality Chinese crap knock offs.

That 4 independent makers in three countries all have landed on similar prices indicates to me that that is the price of developing, producing, marketing and supporting such a product on a very small scale. That its cheaper to produce them on a slave labor scale is neither here nor there.

While Chinese pirate no support no manual stuff satisfies a short term itch......buying and promoting such stuff to the market base of the person they stole it off is going to leave a very bleak sound card landscape in a few years.

It's not like Open Panzer has managed to save the day.

And why would they I guess? When the Chinese will steal the design and the very people asking for developers like OP to make sound cards will then be rushing off to the buy cheap knock offs from the Chinese.

For a hobby as small as this it's suicide not to support the developers making interesting products available. And if you cannot support them......at least don't sabotage them by promoting products that were stolen off them.

P