sturmmann

a word of warning, when you cut the element down and reduce the resistance the wire gets red hot and it can set the unit on fire. I know, and it makes a very impressive battlefield burned out hulk.

The_Stuff

talking bout static models with a smoke supply, what do these HL smoke units take for power? are they straight 7.2v or is there a step down/up?

cheap tank

i dont like the messy things anymore but in rc ships i have used the units from trains mutch more smoke. you can find them cheap on the auction site. this one i used in a bandia tiger with its own 9.6 battery it has built in fan and is only two inches long.

cheap tank

try pic again

strmnd54

I too have been experimenting with H.L. smokers for a while.
laz2428 has the right approach by replacing the "pump,gearbox and piston" by a computer fan...I did the same thing a little while ago...
I posted a video of that experiment on you tube last month called "battle of the smokers 2"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T9XuP-UsVE

In that video ; I connected a stock smoker and a modified one to an Amp probe via a select switch so I could compare the power consumption and the sound...
The test was done using a variable voltage regulator set at 7.5 Vols
The stock smoker is running at 0.530 Amps : Which means 7.5Volts X 0.530Amps =3.97 Watts
The modified smoker is running at 0.380 Amps : Meaning2.85 Watts
In conclusion:By replacing the pumping system of the H.L. smoker by a mini computer fan; you reduce the noise and the power consumption...(your tank will run longer).

But the biggest problem with the H.L. smoker remains the small volume of the oil tank: You either overfill it or you get low on oil and burn theHeater.
I set out to solve the problem bydesigning a smoker using a bigger tank , a heater element made of a resistor; and a mini fan blower...
I have installed those in my Pershing , Panzer IV and Panzer lll...
Here's some pics of my Panzer lll.
I will be happy to supply more details to those of you who are interested ( Right now I feel like I'm writing my first book LOL.)

Perry S.

What is the purpose of the 7.5 V regulator in your tank install?
Perry

strmnd54

The 7.5 Volts regulator is not installed in the tank... It's a power supply that I use on my test bench instead of a battery. It is plugged into a wall electrical outlet ( 120 Volts A.C. ) and the output is variable between 1.3 Volts D.C. and 20 Volts D.C.

I have choosen 7.5 Volts as a mid value in the operating voltage range of the battery in my Panzer lll.
It's a Mattorro NiMh 2000 mA/h sold by Mato toys...

If you use a voltmeter : It reads 8.46 Volts ( fully charged) and around 6.5 Volts when my tank is really dragging itself on the rug...( which gives me around 1hour 10 min. of running time)

Perry S.

Oh, OK. In the picture of the tank you show it installed. Couldn't figure out why it was there since the battery voltage is already in the range you need. Your saying when you run it in your tank you bypass it?

Perry

strmnd54

Ok I get it : The voltage regulator you see in my panzer lll is a 5 Volts regulator ( uA 7805) which I use to provide the smoke when the tank is on idle. It is powering the heater element and the blowing fan. The smoke unit is also hooked up to the motors terminals using 4 diodes to give more smoke when the tank is running... In fact this is a home- made proportional smoke unit using a bigger oil tank than the one from Heng-Long...It gives me the room to put a refilling probe which is also acting a a low level fluid indicator.. On the second pic of my panzer lll; where you see smoke coming out of the gas cap; It means that I am low on oil....

colinessex

Hi really interested in you smoke mod and wondered if you could let me have the full details .ie circiut diagram /layout .
Funnily enough I saw your location..Sudbury.(ONT Canada ).I'm about 10 miles from Sudbury..... the one .in the UK that is..what a small world !
ps thanks for the time guys like you spend making these things and sharing your knowledge with the rest of us..

Colin

strmnd54

Sorry for the delay ; I've been working a lot lately...
I bought a set of proportional H.L. smokers before Christmas just to know how their proportional system was working.
I made a schematic for those who are interested...
I also made a schematic of my last modification ...( I put this unit in my m-26 pershing for testing )
I will try to upload a video on you-tube tomorrow if I have the time.
I have lot of pics of the modifications that I will post as soon as I can....

strmnd54

Well I tried to reduce the schematics size to fit this site but I lost quite a bit of resolution in the process...
I'm gonna try to send them full size....

strmnd54

Ok!!! The 15 Ohms 1/4 Watts resistor couldn't handle the power... So I went back to the tested and proved 12 Ohms 1/2 Watts as a heater element...
Here's the video link for the results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rIYyye3Wpc
I'll post you some pics later...
Norm.

taoJ

I getting near finishing my upgraded smoke unit, thanks alot  to strmnd54 , you wont belive hard it is where I live to find large enough flex straws,but my smoke unit will be badass, and reliable for sure !!!!

strmnd54

I can't wait to see your smoker...With the king of capacity you have on your power pack ; you have plenty of power to spare for the smoker.
I will order more electronic supply next week . If you need anything ; let me know ; I'll mail you some ( It worked pretty good the last time)
Regards Norm.

taoJ

Nah 12,900mah aint much , yeah I got alittle work done, Istill need to hook up the exhaust pipes to the smoker, mind you Inever did find the straws I needed,and I gotta make a fan shroud, hopefully I get a chance tonight to sneek a little more time into.
Do you think the stock board can handle better diodes? or are they using the diodes as a safety feature? I'd hate to spend all this time to have a diode fail on me

Dongskie

The smokers are getting high-tech!

taoJ

Not really, it's the samething that Heng Long builds/ sells, just stronger and more reliable, since the heater is just a resistor, bet your gonna see alot of guys putting smokers back in

strmnd54

The diodes are very important . Not using diodes would be like connecting the motors terminals together...( You're gonna have a lot of smoke ; then you're gonna need a new control board )
Likewise if for some reason a diodes shorts out ; you can damage the power transistor driving the motor...
the 1n4148 used by H.L. have a forward current of 0.15 Amps and a reverse breakdown voltage of 75 Volts
I'm usind the 1n4007 diodes with a forward current of 1.0 Amps and reverse breakdown voltage of 700 Volts...

I also mount the diodes directly on the motors terminals of the control boards ( rx14 and rx18) so I just have to send 1 wire to the smoker ( compare to 4 on the original unit) .
Here's a pic of my Panzer IV RX18:

Dongskie

I'd really like to put back my smoker...

taoJ

Once you do what strmnd54 says, it works like a champ, I am using a resistor with the factory HL board, I am also using a computer fan and hammond project box like you see in his pics, I tried to use the factory setup, but the factory sized pipes/hoses will clog real easy and also really limit any flow gain with a fan instead of the pump, I even hollowed them out but they still clogged ,plus the stock size is rather small and when these upgraded smokers get going it wont hold alot of fluid, so I just upgraded to the hammond project box
http://www.pedalpartsplus.com/mm5/me...ory_Code=ENC15- this was the cheapest place that did not try to rape me on shipping to the 50th
I was unable to find a large enough flex straw,lol that's hawaii for you, so I took some 1/4 od copper tubing, bored it out to 5.5mm on the lathe some chopping and soldering and had my pipes, I found some rigid corrugated flexing tubing from a old gm fuel pump that had just enough to do my connections from the project box to my exhaust pipes,last thing I gotta do is a make a fill tube, but you figure it's a once in a great while to fill seeing as the box can hold at least 5/8" of smoke fluid in roughly a 1.75 x 1.75" box

colinessex

thanks guys for your help and info ..removed the HL unit and sure enough the ni chrome wire had burnt out /broken..the model shop are going to replace it but I'll build one like you've mentioned..buy the way is the resistor a wire wound type ? or what type is it..do you remove the outer covering to expose the resistor wire ??
I am trying to piece all the info together so I can  make myself   'A DUMMY'S GUIDE TO BUILDING A SMOKE UNIT' so I don't blow up any other components in my sons tank ..

strmnd54

We are using regular resistors that you can find at any electronic supplier like radio-shack. There's no modifications made to the resistor except covering it with 3 to 4 layers of coton ( an old t-shirt will do) and sowing a piece of wick to "suck up the oil into the coton.
At 7.5 Volts; you're pushing 3 Watts in a 18 Ohms 1/2 Watts resistor. So the resistor is overheating; thus turning the oil into smoke..
The resistor will eventually burn if you operate the smoker without oil for a while...
The advantages of using a resistor are that : there cheap; small size ; self-supporting (won't break when moved) and easy to weld...
Here's a few pics to help...

BiggTony

Hello, I'm fairly new to the forums and tank rc'ing, so newI haven't even purchased my first full scale tank! It's been a confusing journey trying to decide what to get, with what add ons, brands, knock offs, pricing...the usual when getting into a new hobby. Anyhow, I keep coming back to models with the ability to generate vapor(smoke.) I also keep running into many smoke generating failure postswith the vaporizer in the vehicles (which is common with other devices that use nichrome wires.)

My question is, would it be unrealistic of me to assume that reworking devices such as this http://www.zerotoys.com/newsite/imag...rd-manual-.jpg(here's a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcvtj...eature=related) into a 1/16 scale tank that doesn't have a built in fogger? I know the wizard stickis really reliable (bought one for my son years ago and it workedthe wholetime and has a large holding compartment.)Also, why not use glycerin (PG) or vegetable glycerin (produced more vapor) thinned withAbsolute Vodkato desired vapor in the foggers?(also works well in the wizard stick)

Again, I'm not sure if any of those would be a good alternative to tanking, but they do work in the realm of electronic cigarettes.

strmnd54

Nice toy. I once bought the "zero blaster" for my son which makes smoke rings and work on the same principle...
It would be hard to fit that smoker into an r.c. tank without modifications...The space is pretty much limited to 2"x2"x2"...
I have been using glycerin and distilled water in a 1/1 ratio for a while now...I like your idea of using vodka instead of water...
If I'm not mistaken; the alcohol in the vodka would make a difference.
I'm nota regularvodka drinker so what is the pourcentage of alcohol in absolute vodka and could it be replace by isopropyl alcohol of the same proportion??? (so I can drink the vodka while watching my tank smoke)