caragan1970

Guys,

I know its a long shot, but have anybody tried this conversion?
A 1/16 HL M26 Pershing to a M60A1 conversion...

Does anybody have the measurements of each tank? How close is it?
The road wheels and tracks are close. Would love to see an 1/16 M60A1 with Reactive Armour Package

blitzkrieg65

pattoncommander will hopefully chime in here! But the first thing that I noticed is that to use the Heng Long Gear box you would have to flip it upside down and mount it too the deck so the deck would have to be strengthened! That could be done not sure by the picture how much modding on the runnning wheels it would take to make them exact, it looks like the roller wheels you would need to sand down a bit! I think it could be done but a lot of work, curious to hear what pattoncommander thinks???

The Blitz

pattoncommander

I[:'(]t would be a VERY long shot. The only thing they have in common is the number of suspension wheels. The M-60A3 is larger, totally different hull and turret.[:@] Maybe wait 'til someone puts out am M-48A5 and convert that. I tested the M-60 and don't think very highly about any of the models, so you are trying to convert a good tank into an oversized, lumbering collection of excrement. Only good things I found on the '60 were the 105 main gun and fire control system....both British.

caragan1970

Hi Blitzkrieg65, yeah the rear drive sprocket is located higher on the M60,
the HL gearbox must be adapted like you said, like replacing he bracket housing.

The rear deck would not be a problem, just have to use styrene sheet on top of it.
The boxes of the side can also be changed. I think the challenge lies in getting
the turret shape correct.

If ever somebody attempts this conversion he will need alot of reference pictures and
even 1/35 scale tamiya model.

The good thing is you'll be the only one with 1/16 RC M60A3 in the planet, and
thats unique

caragan1970

Here's an excerpt in one forum and speaks highly of the M60A3....


Folks, The US Army would be better off with Up Armored M60A3s in Iraq now that the Nation State war is over and we are dealing with an insurgency and urban combat.

The M1 series tanks are the most heavy battle tanks we have. They are meant to slug it out with other tanks and win (And they do). They are not the best choice for what is now largely an urban insurgency like Iraq is today.

The M1 has a 120mm gun and Bigger is Better right?
Not in this case, the 120mm M1 main gun has a limited selection of rounds HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank), APFSDS (Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding SABOT) Another anti tank round & HEAT MP (Multipurpose). They are always trying something new but it is what you get not the theoretical I am referring to here.

The M1 carries 40 rounds the M60 63 rounds for the main gun.

The M60 has a 105 mm gun that has a far broader spectrum of ammunition available for use. Heat, Sabot, Hesh (High explosive squash head), HEP (High explosive plastic). WP White Phosphorus Willie Pete, and Behive or Cannister round.
A far better and broader choice of ammunition for fighting in an urban conflict where the enemy is in buildings.

You can take being around an M60 when it fires. 60 feet away it does not cause you to permanently go deaf (It is not pleasant). Catch the full blast wave of the 120mm smooth bore from an M1 your hearing is permanently damaged it is brutally painful.

The M60 series tanks can run for 2-3 days on their fuel if they are careful.

M1 refueling times are measured in hours (I am not going to post it but it is short) 1500 hp turbines kick ass but they suck fuel thru a fire hose.

The M60 tank is a medium tank if they send them with the Up armored Blazer Package they honestly will be better for the job at hand.

The M113 Gavin Tracked Armored Personell Carrier is so far superior to an Humvee, Lav or Stryker our Generals should be court marshaled for failing to use a goodly portion of the more than 14000 Gavins the US has in inventory.. They are not restricted to roads. They float and can swim across rivers without anything more than closing the drain valves.

We have lost many good US Soldiers and Marines because of ignorance as to the capabilities and requirements for tracked vehicles. Both in Iraq and Afghanistan.

When you blow the tires of a wheeled vehicle (Very easy) it is generally immobilized use HE and they burn. It is darn tough to blow the tracks off a M113 or a tank (Not impossible just a lot harder which makes for a greater logistical burden on the enemies support infrastructure)

Now don’t get me wrong.. The M1 is sweet, tough as nails, high survivability quotient. It is a Hot Rod arguably number one or number two finest Battle Tank in the world. It is just we need a pickup truck to get the groceries. The M60 is a Pickup truck, solid, reliable and easy to fix. Actually it can fight without any electrical system you can hand crank everything, The diesel will not stop running if it loses electrical power. You can even run it with pistons missing. During the Yom Kippor War at one point they pulled the turrets off of M60s and used them as bunkers Survivability was measured in the number of crews Israel could replace after the previous crew was killed and continue to fight the Tank.. (That number was shockingly high. A Co 4th Tank Battalion 4 MarDiv drove into Kuwait in You guessed it the M60A3 (You just don’t survive being shot in them anymore unless they have the up armor package but that can be obtained.

M1 Tank Commanders cannot see as easily because there is no elevated Commanders cupola with small windows to look out. The M2 50 cal machine gun can only be loaded while fully exposed the (It can be fired from inside)

M60 Tank Commanders can load, reload and and fire the M85 50 cal machine gun from inside without exposing themselves to sniper fire. The 50 is mounted on the Commanders cupola so it can be fired in any direction and a good TC can fire it quite close to the tank to defend against sappers. It also has two rates of fire one regular and one expresso when your in the mood.

SO M60s and M113 Gavins? In truth the Iraqis are getting some better hardware for what they are doing than our troops.

So this completes your briefing and it is accurate. Darn Shame but you see our GQ Generals don’t really study their profession like the Generals and GIs of old. Nowadays they don’t understand half as much as you do now at the end of your briefing.

posted on 05/17/2007 12:47:20 AM PDT by WLR

Any comment on this guys?

Patrick C.

swathdiver

The M113s are in use in Iraq, not as widespread as many would like though. As for the M60 versus the M1 in the Iraqi Campaign, well there hasn't been much of a role for the tanks since around 2005 when the last major pockets of resistance were wiped out. Since then enemy concentrations have gotten smaller and smaller. IMO the job you're describing for the M60 to fill is being done by APCs and LAVs with their small cannons and guided weapons.

I think the resistance to use heavily armored vehicles for road patrols and convoy duty is that speed if life. Lumbering tanks and M113s with a top speed in the 40s makes for a nice target and increases the ambush options for the bad guys.

I like the old stuff too!

fv432

i seem to remember somewhere on the panzerkretten forum somebody doing an M60

wouldnt the m41 bulldog be a better start ie chassis

swathdiver

They scratchbuilt the lower hull out of fiberglass. Don't those Chun Wai metal tank guys make an M60? There's really no parts they have in common with the M26, the tracks are wider too.

vollenc

Hello Patrick C.

Are you aware of the TUSK for the M1? http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tusk.htm. I am a strong supporter of retrofitting a 1500 hp turbo diesel to the M1 as with the Leopard 2. If validated with field testing then fantastic, but in no way would I advocate a step back to the M60. It was a good tank, for the day, but I wouldn’t resurrect it anymore than the Germans would return to the Leopard I, or the Russians to the T70.

Respectfully,

Birt

The_Stuff

very interesting idea. you could make a bulldog look like a m60, but that rear deck and the drive wheels would be a problem. also the main gun is much lower.

blitzkrieg65

Caragan1970,

I like your vision for this project, you can see it will be a major overhall, but you have a plan! Who cares what the record of the real tank was, if you like it, then if will be the first built on this Forum, and Badest RC 1/16th M60 if only for the reason no one else has it!
Take lots of pictures lets see the progress....

The Blitz[sm=shades_smile.gif]

pattoncommander

Patrick I like your views on the M-60. I tested the initial batch of 6 they gave us at (then) Camp Irwin, CA in Aug-Oct 1960 and served a short stint with M-60A1's with the 14 AC IN Fulda, Germany, but other than driving a few A3's for kicks, never served on them very much. Never did like them because they were way too big, slow and too high for the gun, when compared with the Russian tanks we were up against. The A2's they issued to inits in Germany were a horrible diaster and it took a year to get rid of them. It's a shame the Army got rid of the M-41....it was a very sweet tank. The Argentine Army now has them as a main battle tank...M-41A5 with a 90mm Cockrell gun, Cummins dielsel and side armor like the Abrams and from what I hear, it's a butt kicker.

Incidentally, I spoke to an NCO from 3dID in Germany last October, on his way back. He said the M1 is no longer the "invincible" tank that it was,....RPG-29s have appeared in Iraq and had taken out 2 M-1A2's in his sector before he left. Really bad news.

Here's a couple shots of my unit with the first six 's issued in the Army.
I have some other shots if anyone's interested, but we were forbidden to take pictures as the testing was highly classified.

pattoncommander

The M-41 into an M-60A3 would be one heluva lot of work. Outside of road wheels, not much similarity and if you are going to put that much work into a tank, make us a VVSS Sherman.

Oh, Patrick....you mentioned the blast from a 120 as opposed to the 105..[X(] I could stand all day with my head out with a 90mm, but MAN, that HV 76mm on the M-41 would flat take your head off.[:@][:'(][] Lot of guys got busted ear drums from the 76. Don't know about the 120 firing over troops...on the M-60, we could not fire SABOT over our troops because the petals would kick of at 100-200 meters and the sabot at around 900. [&:] (see my night firing shot and you can see a petal hitting the sand in front of the tank.)

Bill

pattoncommander

I can see it now....Japanese type 97 takes out US M-60 in first on the battlefield entries

Panther F

I say if you can make it look close enough to satisfy you, them make yourself an M-60.

caragan1970

Hi Guys,

Thanks Pattoncommander, for the photos.

For me I like the M60 because I think its the last US tank the uses the old tank design principles used in WW2. It did not gain much popularity or attention in real life and to most RC tank enthusiats. Even the older Russian T34 is more popular.

My intention is to make myself a very unique tank not found anywhere. I think everybody should have a least one very unique tank in his collection.

Patrick C.

fv432

I say go for it and make it yours i'm sure what ever you do is not going to appeal to all but what the hell if you like it then it's good
personally i love the m60 never driven it commanded it or fired it but it sure looks good to me

Tankboi

Hi all, I bit the bullet and have started conversion of my M26 to what hopefully will be an M60 A3. A good friend gave me his Heng Long walker bulldog turret (as he was kitbashing - he aims to create a wolverine tank destroyer). I have started modifying the turret and installedit on the chassis of the M26.

Tankboi

Still a work in progress, I'll upload more pics as I work on this (its going to be a LOT of work).

tankman518

Hi tankers. Oh Man! I love all tanks but my fav modern tank is the M60-A3. Its just a bad azz looking tank. I have been toying with kit bashing an 1/16th RC M60-A3 myself too. I tought about using whats out there to convert and find all the above comments helpful. I am still trying out to figure how to get the correct turret shape! Right now I am working on a 1/6th High Speed Tractor built on the Century21 Stuart. I will post pics soon. Joined here a while back btw...my first post. I'm 55, disabled and my models keep me sane......at least the voices in my head tell me that. LOL

modelbob71

I was stationed at the Army Tank Auotmotive Command and the Detroit Arsenal when the M60 was starting production there so I'm
naturally biased and love the M60. I have production line photos and 7 view Ordnance drawings in 1/16 scale if there is a manufacturer
that is seriously interested in producing an RC M60 or M60A1 in 1/16 scale.

mcovalsk

I have been looking for conversions since some time. The realistic tanks you make from the M26 are:
M45 and M46, maybe the M47 with a lot of work, some people have done it.
Between the M26 and 60 you only could use the wheels, is not a big help I think.