RC Tanks Discuss all aspects of rc tank building and driving here!

Heng Long Protocol

Reply
Old 03-25-2008, 09:30 AM
  #1
samarkh
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GlouscesterGloucestershire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 214
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Heng Long Protocol

I decided to do something about the HL electronics, so the starting point is the protocol. Spending some time last night I managed to work out the basics of the protocol as sent by the TK-TX11P RC. attached is a text file, tab delimited, and a screen shot with my findings. The timings are approx, but the bit patterns are good. L_L, means Left stick moved to the left, R_R(Hard) means right tick pushed hard to the right. Red text hi-lights changes, and the blue text blocks of changes. I thing that the right stick position causes a count. Ran out of time to do each spot.
If this has already been done then I couldn't find it, and any comment welcome, esp. if further cracking of this simple protocol can be achieved.

Yours Simon M.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ur52265.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	230.8 KB
ID:	913071  
Attached Files
File Type: txt
Dx67356.txt (4.2 KB, 45 views)
samarkh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 10:54 AM
  #2
icecreamslick
 
icecreamslick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 2,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Wow. I have no idea what you are talking about. [sm=stupid.gif] Can you explain the chart, on which you have worked so hard? What is the goal of your research and testing?
icecreamslick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:10 PM
  #3
samarkh
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GlouscesterGloucestershire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 214
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Its not reproduced to well has it!
OK, If you import the txt file in to excel, it may help a little.
Column 1, time in mS
Column 2, Bit count
Column 3, Idle state, ie no buttons pressed, sticks at rest, that is to say it has just been switched on

Column 4, Button K pressed
Column 5, Button G pressed
etc etc.

in the jpeg I've coloured all the bits that change from the idle state, along with some comments.

Why have I done this? I think that the HL eletronics is at best weak, espicaly thr TK-RX13# board. It has features I don't need and lacks others. The o/p transistors are rated at 3Amps, and yet the motor/gearbox combination used arround 1Amp with out any load at 7.2V. So 1/3 of your availble power lost on your transmission, and you have not moved yet!

So you could think of this as a work in progress, as I get on with it I'll put more findings/circuits up for discussion, and hope to end up with a usable TK-RX13# replacement.

Yours Simon M
samarkh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:25 PM
  #4
123Splat
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 432
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Simon,

Good work. I agree with youe assessment of HL electronics, but.. remember that they were designed to meet bare minimum requirements. in that vane, the HL designers seem to have been fairly successfull.

But, where on Earth do you get that "So 1/3 of your availble power lost on your transmission, and you have not moved yet!
"?? 1) your reading is unloaded and current goes way up when the DC motors are under load, 2) that is capacity of the output transistors, not any measure of power present. The ratio you post only means that your output trans will only get about 1/3 as hot with no load as they will gewt before they smoke. You need to have op trans which will handle stall current without immediately turning into smoldering puddles of silicon and epoxy ash...

splat
123Splat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 02:28 PM
  #5
samarkh
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GlouscesterGloucestershire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 214
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Hi Splat,
Using stock motor & metal gearbox removed from an HL (Panzer) running on a bench PSU I'm measuring peak currents of 1A @ 7.2v. I know that the avg is lower and as it gets bedded in it will go down. Since one half of the H-bridge is made up from the MP4104 transistor array (Some egg on face) =4A const (6A pulse) <10mS this to me seems to be a little under rated. I now notice the low power rating of the array, two transistors = 2.75w, even worse.
I've not tried the tank with its metal tracks & wheels yet, but on uneven ground I bet that the current is going to get jolly close to the max.
I know that the power that a transistor can take is not the same as that as required by a motor, but the current is a common factor.
If you like I'll dump some of my findings on motor & gearbox in this forum?

Re the HL electronics I just want to add the functions that I want, and dump the rest. e.g I don't want a 'start the tank' button, but would quite like the gun elevation to be up for up, and down for down.
samarkh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 02:53 PM
  #6
icecreamslick
 
icecreamslick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 2,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Quote:
Using stock motor & metal gearbox removed from an HL (Panzer) running on a bench PSU I'm measuring peak currents of 1A @ 7.2v. I know that the avg is lower and as it gets bedded in it will go down. Since one half of the H-bridge is made up from the MP4104 transistor array (Some egg on face) =4A const (6A pulse) <10mS this to me seems to be a little under rated. I now notice the low power rating of the array, two transistors = 2.75w, even worse.
I've not tried the tank with its metal tracks & wheels yet, but on uneven ground I bet that the current is going to get jolly close to the max.
I know that the power that a transistor can take is not the same as that as required by a motor, but the current is a common factor.
If you like I'll dump some of my findings on motor & gearbox in this forum?

Re the HL electronics I just want to add the functions that I want, and dump the rest. e.g I don't want a 'start the tank' button, but would quite like the gun elevation to be up for up, and down for down.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...slow down, professor. Some of us teach second grade, so please use small words that don't seem so scary and try to use fewer numbers/equations.

Maybe I just need to tune back in at the end when the problems have been resolved and the solutions can be explained with pretty pictures and graphs.
icecreamslick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 03:04 PM
  #7
samarkh
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GlouscesterGloucestershire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 214
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Sorry, I to hate people that try to show how clever they are, by showing just how foolish tey is!
Lesson learnt. What I'm tying to say is as a farther of two rather destructive boy's (one more than the other) I just know I will need to repair the tanks sooner than I want to! So a bit of preventative maintainance on my part.

Yours (Humbled) Simon M.
samarkh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 03:15 PM
  #8
971wright
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nelson, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 679
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

samarkth hi there while you are doing all this would it be posible to convert the board to take more power i.e. change the transistors or is this not posible because of design of board i would love to get rid of the engine start the times i pressed this instead of the other button just to see it stop lights flash then have to wait while it starts again.big fingers and thumbs dont understand electronics its a dark art this electromagicians stuff if i cant see it how am i supposed to fix it im an engineer with the mind of an engineer if it moves oil it if it dont move hit with a hammer till it moves then oil it



regards pete
971wright is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 03:29 PM
  #9
icecreamslick
 
icecreamslick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 2,576
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Simon, you sound like you know what you're doing and I will be looking forward to your conclusions. [sm=thumbs_up.gif] Whether you come up with easy, do-it-yourself improvements that can be made to the existing electronics or whether you design a whole new board, I'll want to know.

Several of the guys on this forum keep "spare boards" around and/or use fans to keep their electronics cooler, so the HL design can certainly be improved upon. Thanks for putting time and effort into the problems! [8D]
icecreamslick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 11:11 AM
  #10
lmkhoi112
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

HI all,
Im trying to get rid of the whole RC transmitter and receiver circuit and replace them by a PICAXE microcontroller. Could you guys give me any hints and help about the signal its sending and how can we convert it to PICAXE code?? I want to transfer the signal through the signal cable from the receiver board to the main control board.. We just want the motor diriving (H bridge) circuit, we dont really need the turrent /smoke system. Its for a project. Thanks everyone..
lmkhoi112 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 12:31 PM
  #11
YHR
 
YHR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Grande Prairie, AB, CANADA
Posts: 8,970
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Darkith would know all about what you ask, and will have exactly want you want for sale very soon.
YHR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 04:38 PM
  #12
samarkh
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GlouscesterGloucestershire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 214
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

I've put the complete set of schematics & protocols in to the FAQ

Yours Simon M.
samarkh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 04:46 PM
  #13
samarkh
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: GlouscesterGloucestershire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 214
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

Hi lmkhoi112
Quote:
Im trying to get rid of the whole RC transmitter and receiver
if this is your true intention, then you need to work out how to make it work with 'standard RC' kit. Which is exactly what Darkith has put a lot of work into. It you want to modify the way the tank responds to the HL controler, look at the protocol, I've now put it into the FAQ section at the top of this forum. One thing that you DO want to do is NOT keep the HL drive circuit, as quick look through this forum will tell you that this is a serious failing of these tanks.

Yours Simon M.
samarkh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2011, 06:58 AM
  #14
Satiriasis
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sockolov, CZECH REPUBLIC
Posts: 1
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Heng Long Protocol

I would like to ask if does somebody implemented this Heng Long protocol in ANSI C?
Satiriasis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:04 PM.