tac23

One for the history buffs -

Im about to start a Tamiya 1/25 jagdpanther which Im aiming to mod to full R/C, but had a question with the painting and was hoping someone could help me -

panthers and variants were undercoated in red oxide metal primer (as I believe all panzers were, and then factory coated in either field gray (usually the earlier models) or dark yellow (later on in production, from spring '43 onwards) I believe, and then either camoflaged on site or distributed to units and camoflaged in situ. For vehicles with factory-applied zimmerit, at what stage was the zimmerit applied? On top of the red oxide, or after the grey/yellow coat?

I know that factory zimmerit was a yellowish colour as it had dunkelgelb mixed in with the paste, but what Im wondering is if Im simulating chipped zimmerit from battle-damage and wear, what colour should be showing through beneath - the primer or the factory coat? Every picture of panthers or tigers showing damage to the zimmerit coat that Ive managed to find is black-and-white, so not much help.

Any input appreciated, and thanks in advance,

tac

westdr6113

Interesting question, I found this on the internet- should be helpful.
http://www.afvnews.ca/zimmerit.html

tac23

Thanks westdr

So at the henschel works at least it looks like they'd have been putting the Z over the red oxide primer coat

westdr6113

Looks like it, but I was thinking that since some zimmerit was applied in the field and I've also read that sometimes the tank crews would reapply it sometimes to damaged areas that you could pretty much do what ever you wanted and it would still be historically accurate.

westdr6113

I found this picture too. I think it was repainted sometime after the war but you can see where the zimmerit is lifting and it kinda looks like some of the orginal paint is still under it. But its yellow so I'm quessing this one was painted first and then had zimmerit applied.

tac23

Ive just found a pic of a panther g by david parker that shows red primer through the zimmerit - only a model of course, but he's a well respected (and somewhat perfectionist) modeller so Im hoping he's done his research properly.

But then, as said, zimmerit was also applied in the field, even to vehicles that carried factory coats that got damaged so I guess potentially there can be anything beneath...

Just to complicate things further the panthers and jagdpanthers seem to have carried a variety of zimmerit patterns depending on factory of origin (eg MANN,Daimler-Benz etc) [X(]

Im starting to lean towards a red oxide undercoat (on top of a Mr Surfacer coat on the cast areas that wont be carrying zimmerit), with a miliput/tamiya dark yellow zimmerit layer on top,followed by a dunkelgelb base coat (a lightened tamiya dark yellow, or a GW graveyard earth with a little light yellowpigment added), followed by an acrylic airbrushed camoflage pattern.

I dont know if that 100% accurate, but its starting to look like no-ones going to be able to definitely say its inaccurate.

Next step, finding out if I can get the old electronics and battery from my soon-to-be-Heng_Longed WSN 1/16 t34 into a tamiya 1/25 jagdP...

westdr6113

That sounds like a pretty good plan. Have you seen this website? http://www.panzerworld.net/zimmerit looks like you have two different patterns to choose from for factory applied zimmerit. I believe only early jagdpanthers had factory applied zimmerit. I found these two pictures too, don't know if youv'e seen them.

csal

Hi, I was reading about zimmerit somewhere and it said that after coming on the metal surface would be a greyish color even if applied over paint or primer. Not sure where I saw this, but it was in a couple of places. I have been doing a lot of reading about this for my Jagdpanther which I am starting. I have seen a lot of models painted with the red oxide in the areas where the zimmerit was coming off, but not sure if it is accurate in real life. Any input would be helpful.

Carl

Leo2A6 Owner

The Zimmerit could be shop or field applied. Also the patterns could vary. Theres photo evidence of Tiger 1s with waffle pattern on the lower hull and ridged on the turret or waffle all over. It used to be assumed that the Stug 3 only had the waffle pattern. Most panther A and Ds that had zimmerit had the pattern so the ridges ran down tthe tank and not across like on the king tiger or tiger 1. There was also rough applied zimmerit that looked more like the stucco on the side of a house and had no real pattern to it. Then the checkerboard pattern on the JPs and Panthers as well.


To make colored zimmerit that looks realistic when chipped i use a artists acrylic paste and mix tamiya dark yellow into it before i spread it. That way when the zim chips it has the proper color to it. As for the undercoat. I normally go with a dark grey for heavily chipped areas. Though these would probably be repainted if the area was too large to preserve the camo coloring of the tank in battle.

streetsquid

tac23,
I was working through the same issues and questions you are asking on this thread, while researching my Panther rebuild. I too found David Parkers pictures and ended up following suit. I have pictures posted on my thread "Panther G rebuild".

For my build everything was put over red oxide primer base coat, then I used a water soluable paste to add the zimmerit, which is the Daimler Benz criss cross patten applied with a custom tool I made. Then I shot the Dunklegelb, and camo pattern. Finally I eroded through the top coats of paint and zim paste to expose the red oxide primer underneath. The primer looked a bit stark so I have had to tone it down with some washes and a toner coat. Take a look at the photos on that thread, I hope they help.

regards,
Craig

streetsquid

Here are few pics of my Panther G rebuild with damaged zim, based loosely on David Parker's model