EugeniRUS

Are you talking of Porsche or Henshel King Tiger?

Panther G

Allthough the Porsche turret looks cool it made for a horendous shot trap under the mantlet. that is why they went back too the MAN turret version.

tac23

I thought all the Porsche turret KTs had zimmerit?

Zimm wasnt discontinued until sept/oct '44, and the porsche turrets were amongst the first KTs produced, well before that date

hann314

what size copper pipe is the barrel holder and what size for the barrel holder sleeve pipe.

bubbajoexx

the barrel mount is all brass tubing sizes are 9/16 and 19 /64th's and 1/2 on the barrel itself the brass parts I made on my lathe

bubbajoexx

the first 10 KT porsche turret tank where no even camoed as the where used to pilot remote control demolution units Borgward BIV and came desert yellow and carried only 2 oversized numbers these are the numbers I have found so far without zimmerit
300 324 331 332 114 11 224 02 05 12 13 these are ones i have pics of in my KT book and a few more 101 321 213

googlydoogly

The Demolition Company (Funklenk 316) were given the first 5 King Tigers. They were numbered 02, 10, 11, 12, 13. They most likely had zimmerit (although it's hard to see from pics), since all German tanks being made that time had zimmerit. And those tanks were also camouflaged, which is not surprising, since camouflage was necessary due to the Allied air threat. Although the camo job of those tanks looks like it's been painted haphazardly.

A big, all-dark yellow tank kinda stands out in the lush, green countryside of France.

All "Porsche" King Tigers had zimmerit. Even the first "Henschel" King Tigers had zimmerit. Zimmerit was discontinued in September/October 1944, so all King Tigers built from then on didn't have Zimmerit.

EugeniRUS

"All" but one, or "All" - all?

bubbajoexx

here are the excerps directly from the book pics below text

this is a quote from panzer world

Developement history
As Germany had developed megnetic mines, which could be easily attached to armour plates by infantry, they were concerned that their enemies might employ magnetic mines themselves. To counter this, the company Zimmer AG came up with a mix of non-magnetic materials (Zimmerit wasn't anti-magnetic (as suggested by an Allied intelligence report from 1945), just non-magnetic), which could be applied on armour plates to prevent the magnets from sticking. The mix consisted of

40% Barium Sulphate,
BaSO4 - is made from Barium (Ba) treated with Sulpheric acid (H2SO4), and is water-insoluble
25% Polyvinyl Acetate,
PVA - commonly known as white carpenters glue
15% ochre pigment,
An earth-toned colouring material
10% Zinc sulphide and
ZnS - a natural mineral, and a Zinc ore. 70% Zinc Sulphide and 30% Barium Suphate give Lithopone, a white pigment
10% sawdust
On 1944-09-09, it was ordered that Zimmerit application was to cease imidiately, beacuse of rumors that impacts from shells would set the Zimmerit on fire, destroying the tank even if the shell didn't. These rumors were investagated, and found to be untrue, but Zimmerit was never re-instated.

Application
Zimmerit was applied to the armour plates in an even layer, which would then be seperated into small squares of approximately five by five mm., after which it should be left to bry in four hours. It was then hardened with a blow torch, after which the Zimmerit shoudl be raised with a spatula, in a series of ridges. It was usually applied at the factories, which resulted in relatively uniform patterns (which varied from factory to factory, though, as not all used the methos described above).

In an OKH order dated 1943-12-29, Zimmerit was to be applied on the

Pz.Kpfw. III,
Pz.Kpfw. IV (100 kg.),
Pz.Kpfw. Panther (160 kg.),
Pz.Kpfw. Tiger (200 kg.),
Sturmgeschütze (70 kg.),
Panzerjäger 38t and
Panzerjäger Hornisse
to all surfaces of the hull and superstructure, including surfaces under the armour skirts. Zimmerit should not be applied to armour skirts, turret, external engine parts, lamps, tools, tracks and similar places. The Zimmerit would have either worn of these places quickly, or wouldn't have had any effect, as the magnetic mines could't have bene placed on the locations (such as the turret), or wouldn't damage the vehicle (such as armour skirts and lamps) anyway. Zimmerit is still often seen on turrets, and sometimes on armour skirts, regardless, but rarely if ever on tools or tracks.

Zimmerit was rarely applied to other vehicles than the ones described above, however one Sd.Kfz. 251 Ausf. D has been seen with a non-standard pattern. Vehicles not expected to see frontline service (such as self-propelled artillery) weren't given Zimmerit.

EugeniRUS

I will repeat once again, those who can will hear.
ALL Porsche KTs, except one (prototype) which is now in Bovington, had zimmerit.

googlydoogly

What book was those scans from? Because the no-camo statement was clearly false. Here's some pics of those tanks.

Tiger 11. It's faint, but you can clearly see the camo pattern on the side.


Same tank as above.


Unknown Kingtiger from Panzer-Kompanie Funklenk 316. Notice the visible camo pattern on the front mudguards, front, turret, front glacis.


Tiger 12, from the same company. Notice the camo.


And yes, the first 5 production King Tigers with Porsche turrets were given to that unit. Along with 13 Tiger Is.

And is this the Tiger 332 you claimed didn't have zimmerit?


Because it does, if you look at the commander's cupola overhang, you can clearly see the zimmerit pattern.


As for the Panzer World text, it's true that OKH said that those tanks listed were to be applied zimmerit on 12/29/1943. But um....The Germans built more tanks after 12/29/1943. You failed to copy and paste the remaining article.

Zimmerit was applied in a number of different patterns. Below is a complete list of the patterns applied to different vehicles. Do notice, that some of the patterns were only very rarely seen on some vehicles, and sometimes only on some areas of one vehicle (such as the Pz.Kpfw. Tiger Ausf. E with waffle pattern Zimmerit). All the patterns below have been verified through photographs, though. Any additions to the list is very welcome.

1. Vertical columns of horizontal ridges
* Pz.Kpfw. III
* Sutrmgeschütz Ausf. G
* Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. H, J
* Pz.Bef.Wg. IV
* Sturmgeschütz IV
* Panzerjäger IV
* Panzer IV/70 (V)
* Sturmpanzer
* Wirbelwind
* Ostwind
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther
* Jagdpanther
* Bergepanther
* Pz.Kpfw. Tiger Ausf. E
* Panzersturmmörser
* Elefant
* Pz.Kpfw. Tiger Ausf. B
* Jagdtiger (Porsche only)
2. Horizontal columns of vertical ridges
* Sturmgeschütz Ausf. G
* Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. H
* Panzerjäger IV
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther Ausf. G
3. As pattern two, but with one-waydiagonal groves
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther Ausf. G
4. As pattern two, but with vertical groves, seperating the columns into small boxes
* Sturmgeschüz
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther Ausf. A, G
5. Small squares
* Sturmgeschütz
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther Ausf. A, G
* Jagdpanther
6. Square waffle-like pattern
* Sturmgeschütz Ausf. G
* Sturmhaubitze
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther
* Pz.Kpfw. Tiger Ausf. E
7. Similar to pattern two, but with the ridges being diagonal, and changing direction for every column
* Pz.Kpfw. IV
8. As pattern three, but with the diagonal groones going both ways, forming rhomb-like figures
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther
9. As pattern one, but with horizontal grooves, seperating the columns into small boxes
* Sturmgeschütz
* Pz.Kpfw. Panther Ausf. G
10. Similar to pattern six, but one with rhombs rather than squares
* Sturmgeschütz
11. Continuoues vertical ridges
* Panther
* Sd.Kfz. 251 Ausf. D

As you can see, there's plenty of armor that wasn't listed on that OKH that were given zimmerit, including the Elefant, Wiberlwind, Ostwind, Jagdpanther, Kingtiger, etc....

And here's a quote from Panzer World as well, on the King Tiger section:
In September, application of Zimmerit ceased at the factory.

If King Tigers were rarely given a zimmerit coating, why would the author write that on a King Tiger article?

bubbajoexx

I dont know what the number is on that KTP but 332 is a henschel

and as far as camo they could well havve been done in the field as some where as out of the plant the first 5 starting with 02 are all non camo acording to the records found

googlydoogly

Well, yes. That Tiger 332 was part of Kampfgruppe Peiper during the Battle of the Bulge and had no zimmerit. (It's now in Aberdeen Museum)

But I thought we were just talking about Porsche-turret King Tigers here. As stated above, all King Tigers built after September 1944 had no zimmerit. And no Porsche-turret King Tiger was built after September 1944.

From the beginning of the war until late 1944, all German vehicles have field-applied camo, until The Germans started factory-painting their tanks in October/November 1944. But before that, crews are issued a brand new tank with dark yellow base, and they were given cans of olivegrun and rotbrown camo paints so they could paint the camouflage themselves.

So the King Tigers of the Funklenk 316 was delivered with only the dark yellow base. But as you can see from the pics I supplied, they didn't remain un-camouflaged for long.

bubbajoexx

UN FORTUNATLY SOME OF THE TEXT OUT THERE WAS INACURATE AND SOME OF THE PORSCHE TURRET TANKS CAME OUT WITHOUT ZIMMERIT BECAUSE OF THE NEED FOR THE TANK AND THE RUSH PUT ON THE SUPPLIERS TO GET THEM OUT THE DOOOR SOME WENT OUT SOME DIDNOT BUT THERE ARE THE ODDBALLS HITLERS PUSH ON THE FACTORIES WAS IMMENCE AND NOT JUST kt"S WENT OUT UN COVERED THERE ARE MANY TYPES THAT WENT OUT IN A RUSH

googlydoogly

Could you show some reference? At *least* pics of these alleged non-zimmerit "Porsche" King Tigers? The only ones you've shown are "Henschel" King Tigers.

Because seriously, I'd love to see one. I don't like putting zimmerit on tanks, so it would be awesome to make a Porsche King Tiger that has no zimmerit. But I would like to base it off an actual tank, and not just from fantasy.

It's fine if you don't want to put zimmerit on your King Tiger. No one is forcing you to. In fact, your King Tiger looks quite nice without zimmerit. But don't try to change history just because you don't feel like putting a zimm coat on your tank.

hatakashi

V1 and V2 both didn't have Zimmerit, V2 is now preserved in Bovington Museum, UK.

bubbajoexx

here is one I found but cant see the number on it

hatakashi

This KT's running gears were removed afterward and placed onto the Bovington KT (V2)

M.A.Ts

Back to your build Bubba, whats the go with the 2 speakers are they wired together?

bubbajoexx

use 2 speakers for one reason only when you hook them in series the sound comming of the board is extremly clean as to using one . the reason for series is I have found 8 ohm speakes dont work well with Henglong boards when hooked in series it reduces the ohms and reduces the load on the sound chip and you get way better sound and better sound separation IE gun fire is clearer and you can here the MG sound better as well

M.A.Ts

So you plug the +&- from each speaker to the board & connect the other +&- together ?


When i visited my local Jay Car (for everything electronic) to buy some cooling fans came accross a little 12v amp for mic's ect was going to see if it will pump up the volume and will use the 2 speakers.

pcomm1

On the Western Front these are the historical claims from both the Allied and German historians.

The Porsche Turret King Tiger is best known for its battle field appearance in 1944 Normandy, France. Remember Dr Porsche went to an Allied slammer, in part, because of his design work and alleged labor practices for this panzer and other armored vehicles.

The first Porsche Turret King Tigers produced from January to September 1944 were coated with Zimmerit anti-magnetic mine paste, except for the three prototypes, per http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerk...sd-kfz-182.htm

Even the 1/16 Scale Tamiya Porsche Turret King Tiger finish instructions state that at least 2 Porsche Turret King Tigers fought without zimmerit coating and Tamiya is pretty good at documenting their finish guide instructions.

At least one of the no zimmerit KT panzers was at the Ohrdruf Training area and that is also the area were the majority of the Schwere Panzer Abteilung 503 KT crews applied camouflage to their newly issued Porsche Turret King Tigers, per page 170, "Tigers in Combat I", before fighting in France. Not all King Tigers in France wore camo before heading off to the fight and many had camo applied roadside under trees. Same story for Panthers.

Porsche Turret King Tiger at Bovington.

miguelm1

Although there were some late-war Henschel turret King Tigers that didn't sport a zim coating, I believe all of the Porsche turret KTs had it. Awesome paint job, though.

EugeniRUS

Note, it has got late tracks.

pcomm1

The level of a museum restoration, parts used, paint color shades and camo pattern finish accuracy is a whole new discussion. I seem to recall that there was a bio about this KT Porsche Turret on the museum web site a few years ago and perhaps it is still posted.

As a side bar, once at famous Southern California WWII aircraft restoration hangar, I observed a P-51D under restoration and happened to spy that the paint finish was being referenced against a Squadron paperback booklet, the same one I had used for a 1/48 plastic kit build. Had to chuckle that the research for the 1/1 Scale WWII aircraft graphics had gone no deeper than a run to a hobby shop.