RSEA

Is it possible to install a Tamiya King Tiger gearbox in a Tamiya Tiger I tank? The stock gearboxes that come with these two kits do look different, but both tanks are approximately the same width. Therefore it would seem the King Tiger gearboxes would fit inside the Tiger I, but would they be mountable and interface with the sprocket drive wheels?

The stock Tamiya Tiger I gearbox seems to be a mixture of plastic and metal gears. Does the King Tiger gearbox have all metal gears, or is it a mix of plastic and metal also?

pcomm1

The gearboxes are the identical between the Tiger and KT, but I have found the gearbox mounting posts are slightly different lengths between the 2 kits.

And that poses a problem, you should use the mount posts purposed for each model kit and they are sometimes hard to find. Also, the gearbox "drive shafts" for the Tamiya Panther and Jagd are longer then those used for the Tiger, KT, Pershing and Sherman gearboxes, though not relevant to your question.

You can get a gearbox mount brace, to replace the "posts" from Daryl Turner for either the Tiger or King Tiger and avoid the confusing Tamiya mounting post length issue.

email here for price & more info on the gear box mount brace: [email protected]

If you need all metal gearboxes visit here: http://www.etoarmour.com/products.php?ViewCategory=19

RSEA

Thanks pcomm1,

I sent Daryl an email to inquire as to what the price is for the mounts.

Panther F

Just an FYI, [link=http://www.etoarmour.com/]ETO Armor[/link] sells Daryl Turners products as well as the gearbox mounts.

RSEA

I looked on the ETO website and was unable to find the gearbox mounts..

Panther F

Really? Well they're called a lower hull brace instead of gearbox mounts. They serve as a dual function.

Tiger I: http://www.etoarmour.com/product_det...productID=DP08

King Tiger: http://www.etoarmour.com/product_det...productID=DP07

Much better than the stock mounts.

HTH

digger1976

PCOMM1,

Back on 2/1/2009 you had answered the question about the gearboxes on the King Tiger and the TigerI. I have a King Tiger with the new gearboxes. I also purchesed a second set of King Tiger new gearboxes in the event that if I blow the original gearboxes,I would have a back up. Apparently, I do not need to replace the existing gearboxes after 3 years use.
I just purchased a F/O Tiger I on e-bay that has the older gearboxes. Are the new gearboxes for the King Tiger and the Tiger I the same? They both have different part numbers and Tamiya tech support has given me three different answers. I have measured the drive shaft for the drive sproket on both tanks and the older Tiger I gearbox drive shaft to the sproket is slightly shorter than the King Tiger new gearbox. Your help is appreciated.

Sorry for the redundancies in questions, just looking for clearification.

sevoblast

In a word, yes, the gear boxes are basically interchangeable between the Tiger 1 and KT., being the same. Different part numbers simply denote the Type 2 or Type 3 trans available at production time.

The original Tam tank TU's for the Tiger 1 etc were the Type 1. These have 3 large nylon/brass spur gears and a short output shaft with a brass sprocket mount, said mount held on with one or two set screws. Sherman Type 1's have about a 2mm shorter final drive than the Tigers 1 & 2.
Type 2 and Type 3 have a black plastic cover that covers the main part of the TU gear system, and also retains some of the gear shafts in the frame. Difference in the Type 2 to Type 3 is the number of metal gears in the mid section of the trans. The desirable one is the Type 3 which has been around for some years now. Pershing uses a totally different output system of the basic Type 3 trans frame to match the final gear reduction mounted outside the hull. Panther/JP uses a Type 3 identical to all other Type 3's except for a considerably longer output shaft, hence it can only be used on the Panther/JP unless you change the output shaft to the shorter Tiger or Sherman shaft. Change takes about 3 minutes per trans

Type 4 trans are used in the Pzkw 4 and are unique to the P4. Don't know what the KV will have in him. Leo uses also a unique and totally different system for motive power.

The steel geared Type 1 trans listed on the etoarmour sight are out of stock at the moment, new stock expected in a month or two. They require a seperate bolt on gear down, as stock Type 1's give you roughly Mach 1 for your tank, making it way too fast. These are for all out battling and competition and include a final drive reinforcement and for the KT and Tiger 1 a truss system to tie the TU's together.

Trans mounts generally follow the same pattern of attaching holes, but the floor to trans clearance is different. Best way to solve that problem is to just get the Daryl's trans plate, listed for each tank on etoarmour.com, for the tank you are interested in powering. The plate also significantly strengthens the floor pan of the tank and keeps your trans system aligned properly.

Also on sight is a nifty mount for the Pershing by Daryl. On the stock setup, to do any maintainence on the Pershing TU's, you have to disassemble half the front of the tank.With Daryl's mount system. you just pull a couple screws and the trans is in your hands.

Daryl is also coming out with an interesting series of cosmetic parts, the first of which are now on sight. Late Tiger 1 turret ring guards, functional German engine deck hatch hinges, early Sherm split turret hatches, T34 hatch hinges, Sherman outdrive covers (this part is totally missing on the Tam tank), a universal on/off switch mount plate, and a sweet little snap on cover for the motor outdrive on the left side to cover the pinion gear set up. This neat little item keeps any stray wires from getting tangled up in the drive system. Also coming are lots of other cosmetic and funtional goodies. All will be on sight as available, and this will be very soon. Think Ford Sherman for some, and KV for others. Parts are of ABS, and hinge pins are steel where needed. Fit is excellent.

Daryl is an avid tanker like a lot of us. and is quite the wizard when it comes to upgrades in needed areas. Iwell remember his nasty little T34 76, made from the original Trumpeter static kit long before the RC kit arrived. He killed me a lot at Danville with that little stinker. It was one tough customer, and quite strong and reliable in the motive area. A masterpiece.

pcomm1

Hi digger1976,

Bob at ETO has answered your question perfectly with:

"In a word, yes, the gear boxes are basically interchangeable between the Tiger 1 and KT" and that is true.

I have used that swap without issues. Use the Daryl Turner "lower hull brace" to gain the correct placement height for the gearboxes.

And for info to remember down the road and answering a question not asked: the Panther & Jagdpanther gearboxes use a long output shaft and are NOT interchangeable in Tigers.

Take care, John

digger1976

Thanks guys!

Just a note, how come some of you use the gear reduction? Ihave been using the stock gears in my King and have been able to keep my tank to a crawl for more realistic effects. I am still able to climb obsticles at very low speed still. I have a pic on my profile of the Tank climbing about a 30 degree slope at a very low speed with stock gears with no problem. I've been using the same stock gears for over three years with no issues other than replacing the resin tracks. Just wondering what the advantage is with the gear reduction.

F/O King Tiger Specs:
Radio Shack 3200 NiMh - supposed to be 7.2 volts but puts out 8 volts with a running time of about 60 minutes
Stock gears
Stock tracks
only modifications are for the road wheel bushings. Bought them from Backyard Armor.

sevoblast

Some of the tanks with stock TU's have a faster speed than is listed in the speed charts for some competitions. Here we use max off road speed as the top allowable speed of the tank. There are a number of ways to achieve this, the best and most durable is a bolt on gear down for the stock Tam trans systems.
Some clubs use the max road speed in their sponsored events, but we think off road is more realistic. This does put the tank closer together for speed, as while a Sherm would outrun a Tiger 1 or 2 on the road, off road the speed was much more close together. Most of this was due to the superior suspension systems in the German tanks, especially the Panther/JP and Tiger 1/2/JT. The German tanks were not the ponderous monsters propaganda makes them out to be.
Max speed is adjustable with a gear down, as all you have to do is change the motor pinion for a different tooth count to change speed. You can also change the output gear from the gear down for different speeds.

digger1976

As far as beefing up the lower hull on any Tamiya tank, I have done this with my King Tiger and now my new Tiger I.  To keep things simple, and not to tamper with any mechanisms internally, I have just screwed on another piece of sturdy aluminum on the underside.  I picked up a piece of aluminum from my local hobby store, cut it to the exact lenghth of the underside of the lower hall and screwed in all screws that came with the kit.  I believe the thickness was about .14mm.  There was no need to puchase modified screws.  The screws that came with the kit worked fine with more than enough room to spare.  This significantly strengthened the hull and only took about 15 minutes to size, drill and screw in.  It was a great inexpensive quick fix.

Jeff489

My Feedback: (12)

Besides getting more torque or scale speeds, its a good idea to use gear-downs if you battle your tank in organized club meets a.k.a. "battledays". 

The techinical explanation is that the tamiya battle system applies damage to a tank by reducing voltage (among other things) to the motors.  The stock Johnson 380 motors only achieve peak torque when they spin at high rpm (which requires 7.2v), and thus they are most efficient.  As the voltage drops (due to "battle damage"), so does the rpm and hence, torque of the motors.  So much so, that after 7 hits on a heavy tank, you are just about unable to move.  The tank barely crawls, and will absolutely not climb any sort of an incline.  That's where the saying "I'm a pillbox" comes from, because your tank is immobile and can only traverse the turret to engage enemies, much like a pillbox. 

Having the geardown reduces the torque loads on the motors and allows them to spin up to a higher rpm at lower voltages and thus, you can move about (albeit slowly) even with 7 or 8 hits on your tank.  This is an absolute necessity when you have a tank destroyer as you must be able to pivot to engage targets (or else you'll be a sitting duck).