manchu9inf

need a little clarification on backdating the Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf J to and Ausf H.
here is what i am tracking so far.
1. need the engine muffler for the turret traverse motor on the back hull
2. need to remove the pilzen on turret roof
3. remove close in defense weapon on turret roof
4. turret doors need to have the vision and pistol ports in them.
5. Zimmerit.
if this correct, then does anyone know where i can get the correct turret doors to fit the Tamiya Panzer IV? And the muffler for the turret travese motor?
I could probably scratch the muffler parts but the turret doors are the challenge since the Tamiya doors lack them.
any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Will

pattoncommander

Check out the Century 21 1;18 scale Panzer IVs. Lots of stuff on them that can be used. The doors will probably have to be scratch made or modified by using other parts. Exhaust pots etc are a simple build...again lots of parts from the discontinued Pz IVs can be doctored and used. Good luck.

pcomm1

Another small issue, but one that is a bother is that the Tamiya Pz4J DMD Control Unit (T-03) and DMD Multi-Function Unit (MF-01) do not combine to offer sound effects for turret rotation and main gun elevation as those are manual functions in the J and motorized in the H.

sevoblast

With all due respect, maybe so, Pcomm, but having been up close and personal with various Sov, and in '67 a few pieces from the Fatherland, tanks, never heard the rotation or elevation sounds from outside the tank. Of course, there was other background noises, which may have interfered with the local acoustics.

pcomm1

What you hear in my Tamiya RC Pz4 J model is the lightly audible whirl of the Tamiya electric motors for the turret functions and that is the bother I refer to.

This is a detail point and is nothing to debate about.

Facts are facts (most of us have seen and heard real tanks of all types in operation and a manually operated turret would seem to be silent, true) and perhaps you need an ear exam, because you can hear the motorized turret sound effects coming from an operating real tank and for sure you can hear them in an operating 1/16 scale Tamiya turret tank, which is what we are most concerned with.

In the 1 to 1 scale WWII German Army world: "The electric motor that powered the tank's (H model) turret traverse was removed to allow the installation of an auxiliary 200-litre (44 imp gal) fuel tank (J model); road range was thereby increased to 320 kilometres (198.84 mi), but the turret had to be rotated manually (J model)."

In the 1/16 Tamiya model tank world the Tamiya WWII German turret tanks (King Tiger, Tiger, IE, Panther) have sound effects for prototypical motorized turret rotation and main gun elevation and the Tamiya Pz4J does not have sound effects for those functions.

I would guess a mythical Tamiya RC Pz4 H model kit would have appropriate sound effects for those turret functions, again, a very small detail, but still a very small bother in regards to an accurate and detailed build.

John

pattoncommander

Most tanks have an electric turret control system which produces a slight whine which can be heard when the engine is shut down. The tiger had the traverse locked into the drive shaft under the turret and had no power traverse if the engine wasn't running. Now, if someone puts out models of the M-47 or and of the M-48 and M-60 series, there should be a very annoying noise from the accumulator. These tanks had a hydraulic/electric system with an accumulator that would kick in to rejuv the hydraulic pressure when it got below a certain level. It was a VERY noisy high squeel which was not at all welcome on a quiet night sitting on a hilltop, trying to hide. The M-41 did have a fairly loud turret motor but in later models, I believe the noise level was reduced.

Adding turret sounds on the 1;16 scale tanks would be redundant and serve no purpose. Manual traverse would not be heard unless one was standing next to the tank, listening to the gunner groan and cuss.

pcomm1

LOL, perhaps in your lone opinion pattoncommander, but very interesting operational briefs on the post WWII real tank systems you have worked with.

I do know Tamiya takes pride in their sound effect features plus the feature is another great selling point and I agree with all that.

But I went and got another opinion from someone who actually has fought and survived German WWII panzers. LOL.

I would counter offer that most Tamiya tank modelers think the sound effects do serve good, interesting, historical and fun purpose in the Tamiya 1/16 WWII rc tank world.

The Tiger IE, KT, Panther, Pershing and Sherman all have mechanical turret sound effects that add another nice dimension to the running of the model and go a long way to help create the illusion of authenticity.

The Tamiya sounds are good enough that my Tamiya King Tiger, upon first seeing and hearing the model and the MG burst, well, that experience took my father in law's memory back in time to 1945 WWII Germany and Bavaria and his units encounters with KTs.

Upon hearing my models turret rotate he recounted how there is nothing that puts your "heart in your throat" quicker than having a King Tigers MG spray bullets in your direction.

All in all that WWII Rainbow Division forward artillery observer combat Vet gave a big thumbs up to the Tamiya model tank sound effects. Almost 6 years later he actually enjoys seeing the builds progress and watching the models run.

And a brief post script on that KT MG encounter in 1945 WWII Bavaria which I found interesting and the forum might also.

The KT dualed with unseen Shermans (from my father in law's vantage point). Then the KT survived an artillery barrage called in from my father in law's position.

The US barrages where ceased because US advancing infantry was now in the area and about that time the KT ended up off the road it had been traveling on.

For about 20 minutes the King Tiger made big right hand circles in an open field. All the while, when it could, expending it's MG ammunition in the direction of the artillery observers, but falling about 30 yards short.

When the tank finally stopped for good, the crew bailed out and retreated to the tree line and into the hands of calmly awaiting Rainbow Division infantry. The US infantry units had advanced and in-circled the tank and the German tank crew had no way to know that.

To this day "Joe" has no idea whether the Shermans, the artillery fire or a mechanical breakdown disabled that KT. He says the reason that he came though it all was because he never got curious about anything, just did his job and moved on. In closing at least one WWII Vet who was there and and survived it says the Tamiya rc tank sound effects are pretty damn good. LOL.

Anyway, I do agree, the crewman cussing sound effect idea is a good one for manual turrets and that was suggested a couple of years ago for the Tamiya Jagdpanter traverse system. LOL.

sevoblast

My father also fought Tigers, albeit in the Ardennes. He was 101 Airborne. The first time he heard my Tiger 1 start with the enertia starter, the colour drained out of his face. He said it was that real, exactly as he heard it in the pre-dawn mists. That was the first time, one of only two times, we really talked about our respective service. He's gone now some 4 years ago, and all those memories of what is to today's generation almost a forgotten war, and of life in USA in the '20's and '30's, are gone. It's a loss.

Flyn Chris

Thanks for the heart felt stories, we truley are losing a great generation of people, that thanks to them, we enjoy the freedoms we have today.

YHR

My Father was an RAF vet who just passed away in August at the age of 97. That Generation is leaving us pretty fast, and once gone I wonder how long we can keep the memory alive. Those gents were always quick to point to the horror of war, and helped to keep it real.

I worry society will forget the horrors without them around. We are probably OK for one more generation, but after that who knows.

sevoblast

I doubt very much we will forget the horror of war. There are enough vets from VN, Afghan, Irak, Chechnya, Gruzya, et al, to keep the memories going.
Problem is wars are generally started by politicians, and very few of them have seen the mailed fist of diplomacy in action rectifying their mistakes.