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1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

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Old 01-20-2010, 03:08 PM
  #26
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

wow...i want one!
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:55 PM
  #27
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

i need one
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

I have one.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:57 PM
  #29
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

That was kind of funny... The above 3 posts that is.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Ok, as promised here are a couple earlier shots of the prototype development.

Ihave spoken to the design team and they said its do-able to modify the lower hull at this stage to accept a motor/final drives.

What I would tap into your folks expertise would be to give me some internal measurements/dimensions and/or a template outline of a drivetrain that would be used. Also need to know the transmission output shaft (the shaft that goes into the drive sprocket) diameter so that the drive speocket can be altered to accept a bushing and shaft.

Any other considerations are also needed, so heres an opportunity to provide design input. Specifics is nice, technical specs, etc even better.

Can't promise we'll get everything in there but we'll see what we can modify at this late date.


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Old 01-20-2010, 11:26 PM
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Thanks for stopping by. Those three views remind me of CATIA V5. What I would suggest is the purchase of a Heng Long gear box. They can be had for under $40 and as a design tool, you couldn't ask for a better aid. As a matter of fact, the puchase of an entire HLtank would be your best bet as you'd have the whole enchillada... drive train, radio, airsoft gun, etc.. I can tell you from experience, it's more cost effective to have the part in your hand and take your own dimenstions from it that rely on a lot of third party info.. well meaning but of questionable accuracy.

Good luck in your venture, BTW!

Cheers, Bob
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:35 AM
  #32
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model



I suggest you just get online and buy some Heng Long gearboxes(cost you about $30) and you'll have everything you need....Tamiya gearboxes are nice, but way overpriced and to be honest a set of heng Longs w metal gears is more then adequate.....(see pic)....youd be better off just buying a heng long tank ($125)and rip the guts out of it and stick em in your tank designs.....do that, and you'll sell a ton of these...Not sure what kind of gearboxes these are...just saw the pic and thought it would be good "food for thought"..

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Old 01-21-2010, 02:57 AM
  #33
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Disposable Hero



I suggest you just get online and buy some Heng Long gearboxes(cost you about $30) and you'll have everything you need....Tamiya gearboxes are nice, but way overpriced and to be honest a set of heng Longs w metal gears is more then adequate.....(see pic)....youd be better off just buying a heng long tank ($125)and rip the guts out of it and stick em in your tank designs.....do that, and you'll sell a ton of these...

I was thinking of sending them my gear boxes , metal HL ones, but not sure if a different model would be better? something lower profile?
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:38 AM
  #34
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

look forward to see it on the market. Wil however only buy if it is rc enabled/ready. Like the HL gearbox idea as a footprint for the design.

cheers
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:55 AM
  #35
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

As long as the Tamiya gearbox will fit, that is alright with me. I am not putting those nasty sounding crap HL gearboxes in my $250 to $300 (or more?) project.


- Jeff
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:23 AM
  #36
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

I hear what your saying about tamiya gearboxes, but lets be honest....Tamiya's although nice kitsare WAY overpriced ,an most tankers(like myself) would rather run heng long ....especially if these guys start making a bunch of models. Plus there are already some upgraded heng long versions/w steel gears(RC Command) that are butter smooth as well as low profile. As a buisiness owner myself you gotta gowhere the market is .....andfor every single "Tamiya" purist out there there is at least 20 "Heng Long" owners out there. I dont know about you, but Iwould rather have 5 or 6 tanks with Heng Long gearboxes(albight upgraded ones) then 2 tamiya setups...........(put a little teflon grease on the heng long gears and upgrade the sound system and a heng long can sound just as good if not better then Tamiyas....)..and still be a less expensive set-up!
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:36 AM
  #37
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Disposable Hero

I hear what your saying about tamiya gearboxes, but lets be honest....Tamiya's although nice kits are WAY overpriced ,an most tankers(like myself) would rather run heng long ....especially if these guys start making a bunch of models. Plus there are already some upgraded heng long versions/w steel gears(RC Command) that are butter smooth as well as low profile. As a buisiness owner myself you gotta go where the market is .....and for every single ''Tamiya'' purist out there there is at least 20 ''Heng Long'' owners out there. I dont know about you, but I would rather have 5 or 6 tanks with Heng Long gearboxes(albight upgraded ones) then 2 tamiya setups........... (put a little teflon grease on the heng long gears and upgrade the sound system and a heng long can sound just as good if not better then Tamiyas....) ..and still be a less expensive set-up!
We ALL know the cheap cost of the HL tank. I don't know how long you've been at this hobby, but I always believed in doing it right the first time. Besides, we're not discusing and comparing Tamiya kit prices, just the difference in quality of the Tamiya gearbox to the HL gearbox. There, the price is a lot closer than what you may think. I'll go for quality.

Nuff said.


- Jeff
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:04 AM
  #38
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Panther F

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Disposable Hero

I hear what your saying about tamiya gearboxes, but lets be honest....Tamiya's although nice kits are WAY overpriced ,an most tankers(like myself) would rather run heng long ....especially if these guys start making a bunch of models. Plus there are already some upgraded heng long versions/w steel gears(RC Command) that are butter smooth as well as low profile. As a buisiness owner myself you gotta go where the market is .....and for every single ''Tamiya'' purist out there there is at least 20 ''Heng Long'' owners out there. I dont know about you, but I would rather have 5 or 6 tanks with Heng Long gearboxes(albight upgraded ones) then 2 tamiya setups........... (put a little teflon grease on the heng long gears and upgrade the sound system and a heng long can sound just as good if not better then Tamiyas....) ..and still be a less expensive set-up!
We ALL know the cheap cost of the HL tank. I don't know how long you've been at this hobby, but I always believed in doing it right the first time. Besides, we're not discusing and comparing Tamiya kit prices, just the difference in quality of the Tamiya gearbox to the HL gearbox. There, the price is a lot closer than what you may think. I'll go for quality.

Nuff said.


- Jeff
Gentlemen.........
I agree with both of you......and would like to say some more Nuff comments. The last Transmitter I got for a Tamiya tank cost $115 plus S&H. I have bought an entire HL tank complete with Transmitter for $115 plus S&H. I have bought two HL tanks just to cannnabalize them for the r/c guts and parts to put into other r/c scratchbuilt projects. Buying an RTR tank was even cheaper than buying separate parts from the HL spare parts pages. True, Tamiya parts are waaaaay better, but money plays a big role in my budget. If I only had one tank, I'd make it a Tamiya, but I have dozens, and have chosen quantity over quality. I wish I could buy everything out there, but I gotta be realistic.................

......................Until I win the lottery.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:41 AM
  #39
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

I love these replies where everyone reveals their budget. I myself would rather have 2 good quality R/C tanks than half a dozen junk ones that always need work or sound and perform like "Why did I spend over $100.00 on this?".

I have limitations too.


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Old 01-21-2010, 11:45 AM
  #40
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

As far as the "junk" comment goes, I'll be the first to admit the early Heng Longs were pretty much that, but they have come a long ways in a short time. The newer versions with the rx-18 boards I haven't had a single problem with....and with the steel geared boxes I'm running just as well with my buddies tamiya tank. I look at it this way, for the price of a tamiya I can have a heng long thats custom painted/upgraded sound system(better then stock tamiya)/metal tracks/etc/etc, and still have all the features of a tamiya and be able to afford 2 tanks vs 1 tamiya. Again dont get me wrong Tamiya makes an awesome setup but if it weren't for Heng Long adding some juice to the market we would still be stuck with the same 3 or 4 tanks tamiya has offered for the last 20 years.....right or wrong lets take a poll I GUARANTEE more people will want heng long compatibility is all I'm saying. Maybe they could make adapter plates that fit either style gearbox(just select which one when ordering) and everybody will be happy...
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:17 PM
  #41
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

The Tamiya vs Heng Long argument is adding nothing to this thread. What would matter to the majority of hobbyists would be what gearboxes could be used in the finished product.

I expect Tamiya and HL gearboxes don't share the same screw mounting patterns. Therefore, as suggested, perhaps a metal gearbox mounting plate (ala the Asiatam's PzIII metal hulls, for instance, instead of plastic stand offs cast in the body, ) could be integrated into the design (or offered), allowing either for the two bolt patterns to come pre-drilled, or allowing the hobbyist to mount their own.

Obviously, anything that caters to the masses will sell more, but if ADAPTABLE, then it will have even wider appeal.

I would expect that a set of HL low-profile gearboxes (for HL) would be the logical choice, but they share the same output location and screw mounting patterns (as far as I know) so as a design tool, only the height and length of the gearbox itself would be factors that may matter on which would be chosen.

Knowing nothing of the Tamiya gearboxes, if they will fit in the same footprint as the HL's, then the matter would seem essentially solved.

I have no dog in this fight, I won't be buying one of these. However, seeing more products available on the market is in everyones interest, and the bickering isn't helping a potential designer put one out.

If people really cared, I would expect a set of HL and Tamiya gearboxes sent/lent to the designers, so that they could figure out what best would work, along with the electronics and battery, to ensure that space is not an issue in the final product.
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dyeager535
If people really cared, I would expect a set of HL and Tamiya gearboxes sent/lent to the designers, so that they could figure out what best would work, along with the electronics and battery, to ensure that space is not an issue in the final product.
I think space will be an issue in such a small model as the Hetzer, when it comes to electronics, gearboxes and battery. For example, I see difficulty if going the Tamiya route, installing DMD & MF units, gearboxes/motors, NiMh SC battery back (this tank would most likely need smaller Li-Ions or something like that), speaker, receiver, suspension parts and elevation unit. HL RX18 route may allow more room for the gear inside, but will still probably be cramped. Dimensionally maybe it isn't that much smaller than a PZ III.. But it should be narrower in width.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:10 PM
  #43
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Disposable hero just above posted a pic of a Hetzer hull with HL gearboxes mounted, no?

I expect space will be an issue as well, but until someone gets the pre-production piece in hand, and has all necessary electric/mechanical items on hand to try and test fit, I wouldn't expect much.

Any sort of traverse or elevation for the gun would probably be a larger issue than the battery pack or "necessary" electronics, but I don't have the hull here in front of me to try and solve that, let alone identify any of those issues.

RC modelers would be best served to make sure it is designed with what is currently in use, (HL and Tamiya if possible IMO) but without being designed AROUND those components, it will be a much larger task to get one up and running than it could be if designed around readily available and commonly used parts. Otherwise it will be less desirable for those who are more interested in a "ready to run" tank, but might try a build if it was only a bit more work.

The knowledge gained from a Hetzer build up could be used later by the developers for turning out other armor as mentioned previous.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

There is MORE than enough room there for ANY electronics. The headroom from the lower hull up will allow 'stacking' of the Tamiya electronics.

Aren't those first generation Tamiya gearboxes dyeager535? The bullet connectors is what I was looking at and the brass axles.


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Old 01-21-2010, 02:30 PM
  #45
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Don't know. Reading the post it makes them sound like HL, but they don't look like HL's to me, unless they are old.

Agreed, plenty of room in the hull shown for electronics, but if the vehicle isn't designed with them in mind, there might be some space issues.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:32 PM
  #46
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Its all a very interesting discussion. Thanks for all the feedback and PM's.

Since my original goal wasand still is the static armor model market but wouldlike to make our kits open to an easy RC conversion while still keeping them affrodable for most,would the concept of providing a sheet metal "bathtub" like insert for the lower hull in which the RC stuff could be mounted be of value?

This would bein contrast tomaking specific mounting tabs cast into the lower hullforspecific drivetrains? If this "tub" was raised off the floor of the lower hull, you could screw your RC components to it.

Then perhaps the outer hull sides could have a drive sprocket oval insert that could be knocked out for RC operation/inserting the final drives though the hull sides. An oval would allow for mutiple types of gear boxes and could be covered by the final drive exterior housing.

Our control arm design already permits up and down movement and rotation of the road wheels.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

The Hetzer hull in the photo has Tamiya Type 1 gearboxes in it. I ought to know, I have the same gearboxes in my Tiger. They are also occupying about 1/3 of that lower hull tub, and are positioned too close together to run "gear downs" on them, at least the Schumo style ones. This tank would need gearboxes with reduction gearing designed into them (which HL probably has), even given the Hetzer's top speed, those un-reduced Type 1 boxes would make it a race car. This model is probably more suited for using HL parts inside it.

Doesn't look THAT roomy inside to me.. I don't see even stacking Tamiya electronics, a 6 cell SC NiMh battery, a decent sized speaker in some sort of mount (boxless), elevation, receiver, TBU, room to route wires etc. without being shoe-horned in there tightly. The 38t would be even worse with trying to add a traverse unit in an even smaller area. Then there is a recoil mechanism, if you wanted that. It won't be EASY, that is for sure. It is definitely a lithium ion battery candidate. Space wise my Tiger is like a mansion and that Hetzer is a studio apartment. That Tamiya Tiger's speaker box contains 80% air and wastes a lot of space, it would be even roomier inside if a smaller speaker box was used. Just my opinion on the matter.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:06 PM
  #48
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

Well, there are other ways to reduce the tanks speed, maybe not the most efficient ways but can be done without geardowns. I have some 1/72nd R/C tanks that have turret rotation, forward, reverse and left/right turn capability. Now, they do not have a huge battery or a speaker (sounds come from the controller) but size is not a limitation. I know one friend who has a R/C 1/25th Panther A but the electronics in it are smaller so with what I have seen and been a part of I do not think it's a stretch to conceive this into a R/C vehicle.

But, lets first get some accurate dimensions on what there IS to work with before we assume the worst.


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Old 01-21-2010, 04:18 PM
  #49
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

If you haven't seen the Asiatam PzIII hull (the only one I have personal experience with) then you might want to take a peek at them.

Personally I like steel as a *hull* material, but I expect for cost/ease, and model building, it's not the best choice.

The metal tray alone is a good idea, probably a good compromise. On the Asiatam setup the tray bolts through the hull in four places. The metal tray however is only for the transmissions....the forward tray is plastic. I would expect a tray for this size of vehicle could be one piece. Bolted at each corner of the hull, maybe two in the center using "standoffs" such as used in computer chassis'. That is how Asiatam runs two of the screws, right down the middle, the other two at the outside edges of the hull. It would also add rigidity, whether or not that is preferable on a vehicle that will likely be relatively light.

Metal thick enough to accept machine screws (for tapping) would be preferable IMO. If designed right, you would need no standoffs, simply cut "tabs" in the tray, and have them bent/tapped to serve as screw mounting points directly through the hull. It looks to me like Asiatam forces something through the metal in the tray to duplicate thicker metal as the steel "mushrooms" where the hole was pushed through. It's an option, but not sure what sort of process that is. It would allow the use of lighter steel yet enough purchase for screws.

If space is a real issue, I would suggest going with whatever is smallest, even if it means excluding certain makes, be it HL or Tamiya. The more expensive the conversion, the fewer people will be interested, but if you leave out things like recoil, elevation, or sound, that too will lose customers.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:11 PM
  #50
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Default RE: 1/16 Hetzer coming soon Blue Star Model

YES! I second the use of a "metal hull" Also, tracks must be a plastic/metal and be of a pinned type design.


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