BiggTony

Anyone know what the size/dimensions of the tow chains used on German tanks? Was there a difference in size for either Axis or Allies? I happen to find some chains at a local arts and craft store (beads and necklace section) and bought the two assorted sized they have.

One looks close, but not large enough. So I figured I may be better off making the chain links myself........one by one,.,....by one, by one, by one.....by one....lol

Thank you!
Tony

edoubleaz

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keep looking, there is model railroad chain, ship rigging chain, and military modeling chain of all flavors. Try the rail road shops next.

BiggTony

Thanks edoubleaz!

I'll keep searching and give this chains to the wife. I'm sure she can make use of these for our daughters.

yellowshaker

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Tony, try this out...it's the one I used on teh PZIII
http://cgi.ebay.com/scale-model-boat...%3D5%26ps%3D63

BiggTony

Sweet!!! Thanks Joe! That saved me some trouble searching!!! Whooot!!

yellowshaker

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You're welcome Tony. The guy is great to deal with and so far it is the best larger scale chain I have found...For anything you need in small chain I would check welshdragon and buy the Tamiya fine chain. I used that for the fuel caps and machine gun on my Pershing

BiggTony

That scale is perfect! I'm glad I don't need the smaller chain links....for now or atleast I don't think the Tiger had use of those......well, I hope not! lol

That PIII is so friggin awesome! Gotta get one of those too! Only thing that's been holding me back is the size.......I want Girrrrrrthy, like a ballparkk hotdog! lol

yellowshaker

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I'll tell ya what though, that little panzer III ran perfectly at the field on Sunday and I didn't even hook up the antenna yet. Figures it worked better than my much, much, much more expensive tiger with all the high end trimming!! (excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall)

pattoncommander

Pick up some medium size picture hanging wire at the hardware shop. Tigers had two sizes, but the heavy stuff was about the same as US cables. Stay away from chains....chains were/are not used with tanks, unless you have a pre WW II tank under 10-12 tons or stuff like Bren carriers. Use picture hanger wire, heat the ends and melt them into the plastic tow cable eyes. Take a piece of the plastic tow cable to the hardware store and you should be able to match up pretty close. I believe Nr 4 or 6 wire is the size, but then different manufacturers have other criteria.

pattoncommander

Yellowshaker, that's the radiator cap....and only one chain (also on the two fuel filler caps at 4 and 8 o'clock by the turret) were on the single lock pins. It was secured behind the flange on the pin. (where the pin bends).

yellowshaker

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I know I didn't ahve a picture of that though...

Panther G

Doesn't Schumo have them Joe. Maybe sevoblast can get them.

BiggTony

Thanks for the info PattonC! I kind of like the looks of the chains on the tank though. I could have sworn I seen some Tigers with chains hanging on the sides of the hull from front to back (most likely not tow chains though.) Even seen a tiger with barbed wire ran on the sides in the same fashion (I can only assume that was to try to keep enemies from climbing up the sides)

yellowshaker

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I actually think ETO does have them too.

pattoncommander

Correction for Yellowshaker..my error on the retaining pins for the radiator cap.[&:] [sm=red_smile.gif] The Pershing DOES have two pins on the radiator cap, allowing the armored cap to come off instead of hinged back as with the gas caps. Gas filler armored caps have one pin secured as indicated and hinged to open inward. I double checked ours at Ft Jackson and realized my error. Tomorrow, I will get some detailed photos for my files.

yellowshaker

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Yep, I didn't even catch that in your first post. It does have 2 on the radiator cap. BTW, thanks again for the info on the pershing that you sent me. It helped very much for the build.

BiggTony

Ah ha! Found the Tiger with barbed wire on the sides.....At Least I think that's barbed wire. Not sure if this was a common practice, but it looks good. Although unlikely to be on my Initial production Tiger...I may try to see if this appeals to my tank.

pattoncommander

Radiator and fuel filler armored caps..Pershing Radiator cap has one retaining pin missing.

1sgt

BiggToney,
It does look like barbed wire and if that was on the Easteren front I would think it was used to keep the enemy off, However, It may have also been used to hold tree branches on for camo. Either way, it does look cool.

Jim

pattoncommander

It's cool to keep enemy off your back, but what I heard, it was a PITA to work on the tank. A Turkish brigade few miles west of us had M-46s and they did the barbed wire thing after some Chinese had overrun some US tanks and were climbing all over them. The tanks had to hose each other down with coax and bow MGs to get the Chinese off. They said the barbed wire worked OK but it made it hell to even check and add oil and refuel without getting uniforms and hands torn up.

sevoblast

Barbed wire was sometimes used on the Ost Front to keep the Russians off the tanks.

For chain, I am out of stock and it's cosmic BO'd from supplier. However, I have been known to go to the local railroad shop. Look in the Walther's HO or O guage catalogs. Tons of different chain in them, many different sizes. Walthers is in Milwaukee, been in business since the 30's. They have a web sight.
http://www.walthers.com/
Go to "shop", fill in "chain" in the search function, and up they come.

Don't know their shipping now, I've been gone for almost 4 years, few miles off the Florida coast, so haven't ordered since '06.

Panther F

[link=http://www.modelexpo-online.com/]Model Expo[/link] has some chains, but you'll have to check them out.

I really don't like the look of chains on a tank. Mainly because they used tow cable more effectively and was more reliable and SAFER too.


- Jeff

rivetcounter

The reality is that the Germans did not use chains on there tanks, why would they they had perfectly good cables that did the job sure you may find the odd Panzer III picture with one some where on the tank but the reality is that it’s another modellers wet dream, fine if you are building a French Char but not a Panther or Tiger

BiggTony

I'm no historical export by far. But I don't think it would be far fetched to see a Tiger, Panther or what ever tank carrying chains. We're talking about realistic possibilities. Not fantastical. It's not like I'm suggestingtoput rocket launchers on aTiger. Not saying that your not right Rivet, but it seems history, especially in the tanking culture seems to be based off of existing pictures and scarce documentation of every units actions in the field. I can't come up with a justifiable reason why a tiger unit would have one,....but I won't rule out that it never happened either just cause it isn't written or available in books.

pattoncommander

Chains for towing on a vehicle over 10-12 tons is extremely dangerous. Chains will break and kink unless you have chains so thick, that it would make them too heavy and ungainly to handle or to carry on an already overloaded tank. Tank retrievers always carried chains, and some smaller guage chains were used to secure heavy items such as tow bars or ditching logs. They were occasionally used to fashion a foothold on tanks that were difficult to mount. Chains seen on some German tanks were used for this purpose or for dragging smaller vehicles such as cars, trucks and guns that did not have a corresponding tow pintle and had to dragged along. A well made tow cable is much lighter, easier to handle and tougher than a chain. I have seen tow cables snap resulting in a death, and for that reason, they are always used in pairs crossed....left to right, right to left to towing hooks between towing and towed tanks. Towing is very risky, but a chain adds considerably more risk over a steel braided cable.