Sweet metal Tanks
05-19-2010, 01:15 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Sweet metal Tanks
This has probably been posted before but if not, its worth a look.
Nifty tanks in a range of big scales (incl. 1:10 and others) and all metal. From Germany, With not exactly ridiculous prices.
All pictures from http://www.panzermodellbau-hermann.de/modelle.html
If Im breaching copyright with the following pictures (all from the above website) , please just delete.
p
Nifty tanks in a range of big scales (incl. 1:10 and others) and all metal. From Germany, With not exactly ridiculous prices.
All pictures from http://www.panzermodellbau-hermann.de/modelle.html
If Im breaching copyright with the following pictures (all from the above website) , please just delete.
p
05-19-2010, 06:35 AM
#2
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Those are all cool, especially the Marder III.
- Jeff
- Jeff
05-19-2010, 10:26 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Sweet site! Not everyday you see an RC panzer one and two. Still pricey though, but another option to look into! Thanks for posting it.
05-19-2010, 11:45 AM
#4
Thread Starter
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Hi ho
I
Iagree the price is a little steep when you add in customs/duty on entry to Norway and the eye watering charges in having 20 or so kg sent by post.
But Iwould love an all metal tank.
The only options Isee are:
1. Buying a static all metal model and taking the pain. Then trying to RCit later.
2. Somehow getting hold of the type of drawing that would allow me a reaonable chance of getting the parts made. The way Isee it is that, as a non-machinist, if Igot hold of an Asiatam metal hull, metal wheels, tracks and as many metal bits (the usual ones: barrel, hatches, various vents/grilles, mudflaps etc) then perhaps Icould have a stab at doing the basic geometries that make up the top of the hull. Mantelt and turret are problems. Then, as the Asiatam system is simple, try and fit those metal parts to the hull.
3. get a student at a local college to do the machining?
If Iever get a metal tank like the ones pictured or the tiger that was supposed to come out of China.....it wont be painted. Just polished.
ON th eother hand....why are they so pricey (1/16 scale) ?
Surely once the cad files are made its just a matter of CNCmachining the parts? If they were sold as a kit with the buyer to fit all the electrics etc......Im just not sure how Isee them costing 3 and 4 thousand euros and dollars? Steel, lubricants etc just cannot be so expensive?
If they were made as kits, with the user to fit after market bits, then they would surely sell in greater volume than 4000 Euro exclusivities?
Ithink Tamiya hasnt helped at all. By setting the virtual price bar so high. The metal tanks do not have the same detail but it seem sthat makers think that if Tamiya cost 1000 dollars and they are coming with a same size tank in all metal then they are justified in charging twice or three times Tamiyas price.
p
I
Still pricey though, but another option to look into!
But Iwould love an all metal tank.
The only options Isee are:
1. Buying a static all metal model and taking the pain. Then trying to RCit later.
2. Somehow getting hold of the type of drawing that would allow me a reaonable chance of getting the parts made. The way Isee it is that, as a non-machinist, if Igot hold of an Asiatam metal hull, metal wheels, tracks and as many metal bits (the usual ones: barrel, hatches, various vents/grilles, mudflaps etc) then perhaps Icould have a stab at doing the basic geometries that make up the top of the hull. Mantelt and turret are problems. Then, as the Asiatam system is simple, try and fit those metal parts to the hull.
3. get a student at a local college to do the machining?
If Iever get a metal tank like the ones pictured or the tiger that was supposed to come out of China.....it wont be painted. Just polished.
ON th eother hand....why are they so pricey (1/16 scale) ?
Surely once the cad files are made its just a matter of CNCmachining the parts? If they were sold as a kit with the buyer to fit all the electrics etc......Im just not sure how Isee them costing 3 and 4 thousand euros and dollars? Steel, lubricants etc just cannot be so expensive?
If they were made as kits, with the user to fit after market bits, then they would surely sell in greater volume than 4000 Euro exclusivities?
Ithink Tamiya hasnt helped at all. By setting the virtual price bar so high. The metal tanks do not have the same detail but it seem sthat makers think that if Tamiya cost 1000 dollars and they are coming with a same size tank in all metal then they are justified in charging twice or three times Tamiyas price.
p
05-19-2010, 12:18 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
I personally don't think that these tanks are "pricey" on a massive scale . But certainly pricey for my pockets.
These tanks such as the one you posted aren't industrial machined on a commercial scale. These are garage/warehouse productions made on a smaller scale which always cost a lot. I believe a lot of the cost is for labor andcraftsmanship. Surely everything that we use when broken down to material cost may be in the realm of a few dollars and cents, even down to the computer your typing on. But when you factor in the grand scale of things from the drafting, engineering, tools, materials, time, etc.....everybody needs to be paid or payment needs to be recouped.
While I agree that I wish these large metal tanks were less pricey and fit with in my budget, I think they're justified to be priced as they are.
Tamiya on the other hand, different story. It cost that much cause they can...not that I think it should, which has really influenced the price of HL after market from what I see. Just my opinion on that. I just don't think Tamiyainfluencedthe large metal tank market in the realm of pricing. Big+Metal=$$ From what I've read on other forums, the big boy tankers think of our scales as many in our scale think of VStanks and FOVs.
I'm certain if you could draw out accurate scale plans, found amachinistwho charged by the hour, and purchased the material....you may find that the cost for his labor and the materials you supplied were damn near close to what those guys are charging.
I'm certain if you could draw out accurate scale plans, found amachinistwho charged by the hour, and purchased the material....you may find that the cost for his labor and the materials you supplied were damn near close to what those guys are charging.
05-19-2010, 02:24 PM
#6
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson,
AZ
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
ORIGINAL: lposter
ON th eother hand....why are they so pricey (1/16 scale) ?
ON th eother hand....why are they so pricey (1/16 scale) ?
http://www.armortek.co.uk/
05-20-2010, 12:41 AM
#8
Thread Starter
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
hi
Youre right there.... (as to scale). Armortek stuff is great but their latest Comet must be nearly 4 and a half grand sterling (with motion and sound)? That must be nearly 5000 euro for a tank that moves with sound? And still requires a 100 hours work to get together.
As to the cost of getting parts machined.....is it not the case that if correct drawings are provided in the correct file format or whatever, and operator just has to put metal in th emachine, set it up, squirt some lubricant and the part is machined pretty much automatically?
Igenuinely have trouble getting my head round how it costs so much. I appreciate that some tanks are built by hand, or to order, or whatever..but Iam also convinced that at least some metal tank manufacturers can produce them just by machining out parts the same way any other machine shop does it.
Have been thinking of trying these guys (http://www.emachineshop.com/) to see how much it would cost to get the awkward bits machined but the software takes a bit of learning....
Meanwhile...heres some cool pics of the guts of a load of German large scale tanks. I love the idea of chains driving shafts .....
All from http://www.rag-modellbau.de/131531/131747.html
In order (Ithink): 1:10 STUG, 1:5 Tiger 1, 1:10 Jagdpanther; 1:8 Leopard.
p
Hi, they are not 1/16. They are 1/6-1/10 scale. And I think they are more pricey than Armortek but offer more products, Armortek also only does limited runs on their tanks but they are 1/6 all metal.
As to the cost of getting parts machined.....is it not the case that if correct drawings are provided in the correct file format or whatever, and operator just has to put metal in th emachine, set it up, squirt some lubricant and the part is machined pretty much automatically?
Igenuinely have trouble getting my head round how it costs so much. I appreciate that some tanks are built by hand, or to order, or whatever..but Iam also convinced that at least some metal tank manufacturers can produce them just by machining out parts the same way any other machine shop does it.
Have been thinking of trying these guys (http://www.emachineshop.com/) to see how much it would cost to get the awkward bits machined but the software takes a bit of learning....
Meanwhile...heres some cool pics of the guts of a load of German large scale tanks. I love the idea of chains driving shafts .....
All from http://www.rag-modellbau.de/131531/131747.html
In order (Ithink): 1:10 STUG, 1:5 Tiger 1, 1:10 Jagdpanther; 1:8 Leopard.
p
05-20-2010, 01:03 AM
#9
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Yep, it sure can be expensive to machine parts on a small scale. It is much more than giving them drawings and files and out pop the parts. You pay tons for CNC programming time. Then there are margins for the shop. If you doubt it, try sending a part through emachineshop. Back when I was developing 3:1 gearboxes I tried to get them to make simple stamped metal parts, the ones you see on the standard HL gearboxes. Wanted a total of 100 parts. Simple stamped steel, no machining. Over $3k. Not worth it.
Perry
Perry
05-20-2010, 01:17 AM
#10
Thread Starter
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Hi PerryS
You are probably right. If it was cheap or easy......we'd all be doing it!
As a consolation (or just more tempation)......heres a link to some of the work of Sergey Federov in the Ukraine who is apparently modelmaker for the Kubinka tank museum.
http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/abo...orov/index.htm
His models look excellent and if Imay say so....his weathering/painting is not exactly lacking either!
p
You are probably right. If it was cheap or easy......we'd all be doing it!
As a consolation (or just more tempation)......heres a link to some of the work of Sergey Federov in the Ukraine who is apparently modelmaker for the Kubinka tank museum.
http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/abo...orov/index.htm
His models look excellent and if Imay say so....his weathering/painting is not exactly lacking either!
p
05-20-2010, 02:13 AM
#11
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Ah yes 1/10 scale.
I have Nil's Panzer I and II. I believe they are two of his best models; although his later offerings are all very good; very solid
construction. I have his track on my Hetzer seen elsewhere on this forum. Nils ( Hermann ) is a stand up guy and a excellent modeler. he is recuperating from some health issues so if you write him he may take some while to reply.
Sergey Federov I know as well; one of the best and again a finer person you could not ask for. I have his KV-I and KV-II and mostly
recently the SU-152 he collaborated on with a friend. Sergey'ss models are not inexpensive either but absolutely superb.
I'm very glad to call Nils and Sergey friend.
Jerry
I have Nil's Panzer I and II. I believe they are two of his best models; although his later offerings are all very good; very solid
construction. I have his track on my Hetzer seen elsewhere on this forum. Nils ( Hermann ) is a stand up guy and a excellent modeler. he is recuperating from some health issues so if you write him he may take some while to reply.
Sergey Federov I know as well; one of the best and again a finer person you could not ask for. I have his KV-I and KV-II and mostly
recently the SU-152 he collaborated on with a friend. Sergey'ss models are not inexpensive either but absolutely superb.
I'm very glad to call Nils and Sergey friend.
Jerry
05-20-2010, 02:36 AM
#12
Thread Starter
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Hi Tanque
Ballpark figure........what are we talking about for 1:16 or 1:10 scale tanks from Sergei?
Does he do them to order (ie. to customer specs)?
p
Ballpark figure........what are we talking about for 1:16 or 1:10 scale tanks from Sergei?
Does he do them to order (ie. to customer specs)?
p
05-20-2010, 08:28 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
ORIGINAL: lposter
hi
Youre right there.... (as to scale). Armortek stuff is great but their latest Comet must be nearly 4 and a half grand sterling (with motion and sound)? That must be nearly 5000 euro for a tank that moves with sound? And still requires a 100 hours work to get together.
As to the cost of getting parts machined.....is it not the case that if correct drawings are provided in the correct file format or whatever, and operator just has to put metal in th emachine, set it up, squirt some lubricant and the part is machined pretty much automatically?
Igenuinely have trouble getting my head round how it costs so much. I appreciate that some tanks are built by hand, or to order, or whatever..but Iam also convinced that at least some metal tank manufacturers can produce them just by machining out parts the same way any other machine shop does it.
Have been thinking of trying these guys (http://www.emachineshop.com/) to see how much it would cost to get the awkward bits machined but the software takes a bit of learning....
Meanwhile...heres some cool pics of the guts of a load of German large scale tanks. I love the idea of chains driving shafts .....
All from http://www.rag-modellbau.de/131531/131747.html
In order (Ithink): 1:10 STUG, 1:5 Tiger 1, 1:10 Jagdpanther; 1:8 Leopard.
p
hi
Hi, they are not 1/16. They are 1/6-1/10 scale. And I think they are more pricey than Armortek but offer more products, Armortek also only does limited runs on their tanks but they are 1/6 all metal.
As to the cost of getting parts machined.....is it not the case that if correct drawings are provided in the correct file format or whatever, and operator just has to put metal in th emachine, set it up, squirt some lubricant and the part is machined pretty much automatically?
Igenuinely have trouble getting my head round how it costs so much. I appreciate that some tanks are built by hand, or to order, or whatever..but Iam also convinced that at least some metal tank manufacturers can produce them just by machining out parts the same way any other machine shop does it.
Have been thinking of trying these guys (http://www.emachineshop.com/) to see how much it would cost to get the awkward bits machined but the software takes a bit of learning....
Meanwhile...heres some cool pics of the guts of a load of German large scale tanks. I love the idea of chains driving shafts .....
All from http://www.rag-modellbau.de/131531/131747.html
In order (Ithink): 1:10 STUG, 1:5 Tiger 1, 1:10 Jagdpanther; 1:8 Leopard.
p
05-20-2010, 10:52 PM
#15
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
what are we talking about for 1:16 or 1:10 scale tanks from Sergei?
As for prices, it really depends what you want to purchase. If you are really interested contact him. I've been lucky with
import tax here into the US, however I don't know what the rates are in your country. I really , really wanted the
SU-152. I paid a lot for it in the end. At the time I bought it, it was 1 of 2 they made; don't know if they made more or
how many since.
I know everyone has their pet scale but for me it is 1/10. Big enough to have a good presence when running; big enough
to do my sort of mechanics, just uncommon enough to be curious and small enough to be ( relatively) easy to move
around. That and I've been doing 1/10 for a really long time. Don't get me wrong I enjoy 1/16 a lot but I'm not as active in it
and I thing 1/25 is a really good scale that I wish would get greater attention. I have 2 1/8 models ( Japanese typ 61 MBTs)
but at nearly 120 pounds they are cumbersome. Any of the larger scales are just too large for me.
Jerry
05-21-2010, 12:27 AM
#16
Thread Starter
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Tank you for the reply Tanque
Ihave to admit.....1/10 does sound like a convenient scale. I'd have to buy a new car to move 1/6 scale around.
The only thing that concerns me with 1/10 is the inavailability of bits and pieces....you can pick almost anything up in terms of accessories/parts for 1/6 or 1/16.
But 1/10 and even 1/15 seem to be popular in some countries so perhaps availability of such things is just a matter of looking a bit harder.
p
Ihave to admit.....1/10 does sound like a convenient scale. I'd have to buy a new car to move 1/6 scale around.
The only thing that concerns me with 1/10 is the inavailability of bits and pieces....you can pick almost anything up in terms of accessories/parts for 1/6 or 1/16.
But 1/10 and even 1/15 seem to be popular in some countries so perhaps availability of such things is just a matter of looking a bit harder.
p
05-21-2010, 02:30 AM
#17
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Odessa, UKRAINE
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Sweet metal Tanks
Hallo everybody
I recently on this forum,thank you all who knows me!
there are interesting photos from our competitions http://gallery.greedykidz.net/george/contest2/ -2009
http://gallery.greedykidz.net/george/contest/ -2008
and video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9L3IqwuKjQ-2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9HMh0jfpqc -2008
Sergei
I recently on this forum,thank you all who knows me!
there are interesting photos from our competitions http://gallery.greedykidz.net/george/contest2/ -2009
http://gallery.greedykidz.net/george/contest/ -2008
and video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9L3IqwuKjQ-2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9HMh0jfpqc -2008
Sergei
