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Tanque 09-28-2012 10:56 PM

Wheels
 
1 Attachment(s)
All the memories of the recently passed Phil makes me realize just how short our time is here. Whenever we lose someone we've
connected with in some way no matter how briefly, a life long friend or loved one it makes me consider the way I spend a good
bit of the time I've been given. I can't lay claim to any great works or humanitarian acts, I build model tanks. Put that way it sounds
rather weak yet the good friends I've made because of this hobby and all the young people I've touched with my hobby work over the years
at runs, fairs, model shows and historical events seems worth it. And the personal rewards when something actually works! It seems reasonably
worthwhile at that moment....

Anyway I wanted to show some of the work I've done, albeit at a lame snail's pace to a set of 1/10 scale Panther ( actually for a JagdPanther)
wheels. The basic wheel is a Maier aluminum wheel set to which I've added at custom end cap and safety clips.

I made the die to press the caps from steel, as well as a second die to punch the holes in the safety clips which are made from
.005" steel shim stock. Each wheel hub was tapped with 8 0-80 threads -quite tedious yet I didn't break a tap once..

The clips are functional.

Jerry

Buckeye36 09-29-2012 05:04 AM

RE: Wheels
 
Great wheels, love the detail.

Panther G 09-29-2012 08:15 AM

RE: Wheels
 
Beautiful work. The Maier Panthers are becoming a quickly forgotten part of this hobby and it would be great if someone who know's alot more about them than me to do a little thread on their history.

1sgt 09-29-2012 10:08 AM

RE: Wheels
 
Tanque,
Just which Phil passing are you talking about??

Jim

Rex Ross 09-29-2012 10:30 AM

RE: Wheels
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: 1sgt

Tanque,
Just which Phil passing are you talking about??

Jim

In Memory of Phil Pflueger

Check that subject title at the start of the postings

1sgt 09-29-2012 11:05 AM

RE: Wheels
 
Rex,
I'm sorry, but I just don't see anything about Phil??
Can you provide a link?


Jim

Rebellion13 09-29-2012 11:09 AM

RE: Wheels
 
Here you go Jim, yeah quite a shock

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11241661/tm.htm


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11242026/tm.htm


1sgt 09-29-2012 11:46 AM

RE: Wheels
 
OMG



Jim

Tanque 09-29-2012 09:26 PM

RE: Wheels
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther G

Beautiful work. The Maier Panthers are becoming a quickly forgotten part of this hobby and it would be great if someone who know's alot more about them than me to do a little thread on their history.
Which variation of his Panther do you have? I don't meet many folks here in the US who own one.

Jochen Maier was a friend as well as a pioneer in RC armor modeling. I purchased my first from him in 1976-77 and have 4 total of his Panthers.
I have 16 of his transmissions ( including those in my 4 Panthers).

I had the pleasure of visiting visiting him in 1996. Sadly as I posted here Jochen passed away a year ago last May.

I can write what I know. Perhaps I 'll start on my web page and post a link here. There are substantial gaps in my knowledge of the entire genesis
of Jochen's Panther.

Jerry

Rex Ross 09-30-2012 07:06 AM

RE: Wheels
 
Jerry........

I had no idea what the heck a Maier Panther was all about, so I did a Google search ...............

This was the first listing for "Maier Panther". The second listing was yours too............. [X(]
(correction.....I believe the first five belong to you)

Wow! Apparently you are the world's number one expert on that particular subject ! :D


http://tanks.linite.com/Panther_rebuild.html

Panther G 09-30-2012 10:43 AM

RE: Wheels
 
I don't own one unfortunately, that is why i am interested in hearing more about them. there is kittle information out there about them.

Tanque 10-01-2012 07:25 AM

RE: Wheels
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther G

I don't own one unfortunately, that is why i am interested in hearing more about them. there is kittle information out there about them.

Before I get blathering on, which I'm known to do please give me an idea of what sort of information you are looking for.
General, specific? I'll start a new thread for it of everyone thinks it is appropriate.

Jerry


Panther G 10-01-2012 03:03 PM

RE: Wheels
 
A general history would be good for starters. As I have said as far as I know there is very little information on them out there. Then we can get more specific if the interest is there for the posting. but I am interested in them being some of the only engine driven Panthers that i know of. i don't know if they where all engine driven or not.

Tanque 10-01-2012 06:32 PM

RE: Wheels
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther G

A general history would be good for starters. As I have said as far as I know there is very little information on them out there. Then we can get more specific if the interest is there for the posting. but I am interested in them being some of the only engine driven Panthers that i know of. i don't know if they where all engine driven or not.
Well here we go. I'll apologize in advance for misspellings.

In brief Jochen Maier's original model Panther A was a semi scale model kit which he began selling in the early 1970s. I believe he based
it on probably Tamiya models extant at that time. Not certain what full size Panthers were available to to be seen at the time but the departures
from being a fully scale model notably the tracks, hull dimensions /shape and stylized details common with models of that era are known.

Jochen numbered his models. Each lower hull central plate carries a designation of 4 numbers stamped into a maker's plate cast onto the part.
The numbering scheme is usually in this pattern: 174 010 581 180 - catalog number 174 ( basic kit ) made January 5, 1981, serial number 180.

Maier's basic Panther was heavy cast aluminum; cast aluminum tracks were an option stock was poly propylene. Hes late alu track were anodized black. A fully equipped Panther with all radio gear weighs in at ~76 pounds. They are very tough and great runners if set up properly; one needs to mind the details.
With a 10oz fuel tank and moderate running speeds a Panther will run for about 20 minutes. I tend to keep mine set rich for cooling and I like running
in first gear with the engine wound up- the power is impressive. The model makes a sound that many don't like; it is what it is.

What set Maier's Panther apart was the excellent workmanship; really well executed components and very clever design. From about the
mid 1970s Maier developed the basic stamped Panther road wheel that consisted of three separate parts, main body ( dish ), retaining ring and tire
not unlike the original: it was held together with 24 nuts and bolts. This was one of the details that drew me to the model at the time. Everyone else
making ( or copying ) a Panther simply used cast wheels which never quite capture the essence of the parts.

Maier's original claim to fame of course was that he powered most of his Panthers with a Webra 40 blackhead glow engine ( the small remainder being electric; to my knowledge Maier never experimented with other IC engines.. This Webra is basically a Heli version ( "Stamo" ) with a rear drivem fan. The Webra Blackhead .40 is very durable with a steel cylinder liner, one piston ring; 2 large ball bearings to support the crankshaft and Schnurle porting.
This engine is rated about .8 bhp @ 14,000 if memory serves. It is very easy to maintain and adjust. I tend to run mine rich as top end isn't of interest but cooling is.

I don't believe anyone other than the Seki people in Japan had done this successfully with their 1/10 Tiger 1 and their approach was completely different and later. I'm fairly certain Maier's Panther was the first commercially available glow powered Panther. Maier also offered a number of options
that no one else did. For instance at one time he offered 3 different gearboxes: single speed forward, single speed forward and reverse; and three speed
forward, single reverse. His gearboxes went through several changes; his earliest that I know of has 3 forward and three reverse but doesn't have
proportional brakes- you simply disengage and stop one side or the other and again the very earliest 3speed type I'm aware of which I've never held an example is reported to have some type of planetary based steering. His late type 3 speed gearbox remains my standard by which I rank all others.

Maier once told me he sold some 330 models the majority being glow powered. He did make electric powered versions and some gas versions have been
converted to electric by subsequent owners.

Maier made several one off models for people; I know if a Puma in 1/10 for a chap in Austrailia, I have PzKw III parts attributed to him but
Jochen never aknowledged them. He also made a very limited Leo II but I've never seen one other than in photos; my understnding the initial commission
was from Krause-Maffei. His pet project which happily he saw to conclusion was the Kaelble Z6W2A 130 heavy towing truck. I saw the prototype run
in 1996 while there and was all set to get one but events took a different turn. It of course was electric and he offered 5 and 10 speed transmissions.
Your may still see it and the current form of the Panther at the website of the fellow Jurgen Stehr who purchased Jochen's business.
http://www.stehr-modellbau.de/index....ndex&cPath=1_8 Jurgen ( who I've met ) does not offer a glow powered version
of the Panther.

In 1983 a fully equipped Maier Panther 'with everything' basic hull, aluminum trackset, three speed gearbox, engine and starter, turret drive, all manner of small goodies and 8mm Platzpatronnen "blank" gun was just about 2,000 USD. His Leo II was 20,000 DM whatever that worked out to in USD.

Maier kept improving his design. He formally stopped making Panthers in 1990, perhaps a year or 2 earlier I recall but I've become aware that he was improving his components probably up to the time he sold his business to Jurgen Stehr. He still sold parts for Panthers. When I was in his shop in 1996 it was like a kid in a candy store, "I'll buy one if these ooh and one of those.."

And like anything else if you really wanted a Panther he would have made you one even after he sold his business; but not a glow powered one. Those stopped in 1990.


Jerry

Panther G 10-01-2012 07:07 PM

RE: Wheels
 
Great info tanqeu keep it coming buddy. I want to know all about yours and maybe others you know are still in existence.

Tanque 10-01-2012 10:57 PM

RE: Wheels
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther G

Great info tanqeu keep it coming buddy. I want to know all about yours and maybe others you know are still in existence.

If you want more detailed mechanical information about the models wander around my website. I have several pages that cover the gearboxes, engines, hulls and modifications to same.

One other bit of information; I used to represent Maier here in the US in the early 1980s. I had very limited success due to the models being deemed
too expensive, lack of understanding of what hey were. Remember this was pre - internet ( as we know it) and traditional advertising was prohibitive
for a part time hobby business.

As to others still in existence? Maier once told me he sold only a handful to customers here in the US. Of those I have only my original purchased
1976-77 and my second which I purchased from a former customer of mine some 5 years after selling it; these are the only two sold to folks here in the US
that I know of. I'm sure there are others but I don't know them. In Europe they still pop up however in their original form they are very dated.
It seems that fewer and fewer are interested in glow powered models. The other examples I have as well as the parts, gearboxes and etc have all come
directly from Germany. I really don't know any other owner.

Most all the examples I've come across have had some form of violence visited upon them due to the owner not taking the time to understand the proper setup and lubrication of parts. You have to understand these models are not for the impatient; you'll never hear me recommend one to anyone who doesn't have experience. I didn't when I got my first one and it was a good 3 years before I figured it out. I wasn't happy for those first years; I never even painted it I was so po'd until I got it running right. There was no one to turn to and I was too proud to cry uncle and ask Jochen....not a good thing.

Jerry

Panther G 10-03-2012 03:49 PM

RE: Wheels
 
That is all very interesting. I wondered how many where actually around the states. Not many it seems. I guess the chances of actually seeing one running is slim too none.

Tanque 10-03-2012 07:00 PM

RE: Wheels
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther G

That is all very interesting. I wondered how many where actually around the states. Not many it seems. I guess the chances of actually seeing one running is slim too none.

Well you did watch my video of one of mine here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10996406/tm.htm

If I remember you said the sound made your skin crawl. It isn't much different in person.

Jerry

Panther G 10-04-2012 01:20 PM

RE: Wheels
 
Ah! That was your video. I knew I had seen one somewhere. Can you post a link to your web site. i would really like to look into your model and parts with a closer eye. Yes I did comment on the sound. I also wondered if a baffled or chambered muffler would or could actually smooth out the sound. thats is the hardest part about watching yours. Beautiful mosel though. Runs amazingly well.
i

Tanque 10-04-2012 03:35 PM

RE: Wheels
 

There's only so much one can do with baffles and expansion chanbers and there is a limited amount of space. But I have experimented with different types.
My latest uses a two stage multi chamber approach and seems to chop off some highs. The facts remains is that these are powered by an engine running
at 8000 to 12,000rpm which will never sound like a Maybach. That's just one of those things you buy off on when you run these. I have a separate page on my
site that details some of my sound experiments.


My website is http://tanks.linte.com

Jerry

Panther G 10-05-2012 03:17 PM

RE: Wheels
 
Thanks Tanque. i will be checking out your site very soon. I agree, there is only so much that can be done with the sound of these engines. In all I'm quite sure I would be vry happy to deal with the sound if I was fortunate enough to own a Miere Panther like yours. :]

RC19 10-06-2012 05:35 PM

RE: Wheels
 
Hi can you not use an RC Diesel , the sound mite not be so high pitched

Tanque 10-07-2012 11:07 AM

RE: Wheels
 
1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RC19

Hi can you not use an RC Diesel , the sound mite not be so high pitched


If there was a .40ci (6,5ccm) diesel of a similar configuration to the Webra Blackhead 40 one could try it I suppose.
I doubt that the engine speeds would be low enough to really make that much difference unless the diesel's top
end is half that of a comparable 2 cycle glow.

One thing you must all keep in mind that the Webra 40 that's used in this power system is tightly integrated into the unit.
It isn't trivial to adapt another engine type.

Jerry


Panther G 10-07-2012 11:37 AM

RE: Wheels
 
You must admit, that engine and drive train is a genius work of art. Not to mention a very effective unit. It's motive action is remarkable. the tanks movement is very realistic with the gear changes and reversing. I love to watch your Panther move.


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