drifter

My Feedback: (53)

Does anyone know if a replacement fiberglass cowl is available?

cloud_master

No info on the cowl. Do you have one your flying?

drifter

My Feedback: (53)

I do not have the KMP T-28. I have the ESM version. I am trying to do something about the cowl that makes it look like the :A" version instead of the "B". The KMP seems to be closer to scale than the ESM. Tried the Platt but it was too small.

harleydoberman

YOU CAN TRY THESE GUYS THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE YOU ONE.

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/catalog.htm

TONY
RECDEPOT.COM

cloud_master

Can anyone give me more information on the C.G. measurement for this airplane? I have the two piece wing version. I've seen 3.5" mentioned on more than one occassion, but not a good reference point on where that measurement is taken. Thank you.

cloud_master

ttt

Looking for CG info and any good news of anyone flying the two piece wing version. Mine will be finished by spring.

70sFlyBoy

Is anyone out there....???
Or is this thread more dead than 70's flares??

Are you still monitoring this thread cloud_master? Or anyone? Or have all of these crashed & burned.... I hope not... I just bought one 2nd nib....

Cheap enough for a gamble, came with air retracts, no wheels.
No idea on age other than a few years old.
Blue/white version.

*Did NOT come with manual!*
If anyone has a manual would there be any chance on a copy please?

My original intention was to go ic but on a quick perusal I'm not too sure about the integrity of the wings and fuse structures. The fuse seems quite a light layup on the fibreglass, and who knows how long this thing has sat in the box in summer temps baking, one wheel well insert has started peeling away, and the glue joints formers/stringers/ribs seem rather dry, I'll be trying to brush in some epoxy first, look at what strength is in the main fuse ply platform, as well as the firewall.

The horiz stab fits fine with the alum tube.

The main wings are packed as 2 piece, I have no idea whether they were designed to remain as 2 piece or are supposed to be glued together. The comparitively short wing spar is plywood with the dihedral cut into it, and that appears to be all that prevents the wings from folding in high G manouvres. Well that and one locating pin in the leading edge of each wing, 2 screws in the trailing edge, and a thin fibreglass dress plate.
There are no alum or fibreglass spars through the main wings that I can see.

Anyway, seems most of it is complete, cute concealed switch hatch, all the control horns including the pull-pull rudder control wires I'll probably swap out for Goldenrod or equivilent... but 2 slot-keyed timber dowls that I have no idea what purpose they serve, nothing obvious as yet anyway.

Probably look at ep, Tacon 160 on 12S.

If anyone can share their knowledge and advice I'd be ever so grateful, otherwise it'll be a blind journey of adventure to say the least

Hope there's an echo out there...

SAM-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds like you have the first version of this plane. The manual you can find on line doing a search for KMP models manuals or directions I think. I know there were some changes to the model with the second version but both seem to have some problems. I know some have been flown successfully. There is some question as to the construction of the wing. The first version used the ply joiner and made a one piece wing. The second version has a two piece wing with wing tubes. I have the second version but have yet to finish the model do to other projects. Scott

Magnum RC

Yes, I am familiar with the KMP T-28, on that spar, the wing spar is a hair short, it does not proceed thru to all the necessary ribs and needs to be modified. Wings folded on some in high G maneuvers. Use a 50cc engine, anything less seems to be inadequate to get it off the ground. Wings need to be glued together. My confusion is that I do not recall a Blue n White version of the KMP T-28 They were always Orange n White copied with markings off the Lexington. The only Blue n White is the KMP PC9 Texan II?

70sFlyBoy

Thanks so very much for replying Sam & Magnum, very much appreciated, I was feeling lonely out there

First a huge thank you Scott, I've been searching high n low for the manual, used your search suggestions and bingo! within 10 mins it has already answered some questions.

Thanks for the detail on the wings.
I read early in this thread, I think it was TangoPapa (??) who identified the ply spar didn't penetrate former #3, I've taken some pics, a rule slid into the spar pocket is 180mm until it hits the wall of former #3, where-as 1/2 the spar length is 175mm. Here's the quandary: former #3 isn't cut out to allow a longer spar, not without an almost impossible job with specialist equipment to make it so. Nor does any idea come forth as to how to even build in a secondary spar without destroying the finished surface. I'd really like to avoid major intrusive surgery simply because I don't have the time nor materials on hand. But, they have kind of created a pocket for the spar at #3, and the spar being short 5mm coincidentally isn't long enough to sit into this pocket so it doesn't tie in at all with #3. My thoughts here is, just to get in the air for trial flights, re-make the ply spar 10mm longer so it fits 100% snug into the pockets in both wings. I think with sufficient epoxy to glue the entire ply spar in place while glueing the two wing halves together, and in addition I'll epoxy 'glass the joint top & bottom, should be more than adequate. I hope. I mean #3 is approx halfway between wheel well & flap servo pocket, & approx 1/3 of the way along the wing, so there still is a fair bit of unsupported wing. Perhaps if she survives the first few flights I might look at cutting a spar groove through the outer balsa skin, run a 2nd spar parallel to the stock but start around the wheel well and run out to ails servo pocket. We'll see later.

Power...
ic I have a 53cc boxer twin and a 65cc single. Had I opted for ic the 65cc would be my first choice, because I read someone installed a 50cc and required 480 grams in the nose to achieve cg, my 65cc is 500 grams heavier than a 50cc so guestimating only at the moment that should work well, and should swing a nice scale 3 blader. Radial would be sooooo sweet!
But...
I have little confidence in the stucture's integrity to withstand the vibrations of any gasser, I think a Wankel rotary engine would be the only ic motor I'd have in this frame atm.
I have a Tacon 160 & HV 120 amp esc which I'll likely use. In an unrelated 2013 thread tuchadwick59 was quoted "The Tacon Big Foot 160 are fantastic. I have one in a pica 1/5 spitfire. Turns a 21x10 3-blade prop. 12s set up. It is fantastic. So I may be converting the two aerodrives to the Tacon 160." (in relation to P-38 Yellow Aircraft build thread). Pica Spitties are 88", approx 11kg and typically 50cc powered. So considering at least a couple have flown with the Aerovate45cc I'm hoping the Tacon will have at least some power in reserve.

Magnum, interesting comments on the colour scheme, I'm now curious what it is I have, and it isn't a PC9 heh heh

Thanks again guys, really appreciated.
Really

70sFlyBoy

For future reference, hope this helps someone else out there

Magnum RC

Well Flyboy, I used to work for KMP and Andrew never had produced the livery I see here. It is nice. It would be safe to say that the factory distributed the airframe to other importers or it came from China. I do not think the name KMP is anywhere on that box. It is however the same plane.

70sFlyBoy

Thanks a million Magnum, interesting specialty I have here by the sounds of it and in all honesty the pics don't do her justice. Now knowing she's a bit special I'm kind of obliged to look after her lol There's no KMP branding on anything, the box is blank.
I've opted for a T-Motor 190kv seeing as I'd used my Tacon160 in another frame and these Tacons seem to be out of stock everywhere. Unsure of prop size yet, at a guess it'll be in the realms of 22x10x3 but I'll have to wait until I know the compressed ground clearance first.

I notice you sell ESM gear on your site, do you know if the ESM canopy will fit on the KMP? Or the cowl? I'd be nice to know if there are spares for the usual bits.
For that matter does the ESM detailed cockpit work with the KMP?
I'm getting ahead of myself now, I know, going a bit cabin-feverish being house bound with pnuemonia...

70sFlyBoy

Maiden is approaching.
T-Motor 190kv
22x10x3 Beila
120 amp hv opto
2 x 6S 5000mah (12 cell)
ESM air retracts

Only a few things to finish off before maiden
ESM air retracts have been nothing but problematic. Wouldn't go up or down, stripped everything, smeared a little silicon oil on all internal seals/surfaces, eventually after a lot of tinkering and for no apparent reason they lowered ok but won't retract other than 1/2" or so. Replaced servo operated diverter valve with a Robart, still no improvement. Bought another air cylinder twice the size of the original and plumbed that in with the small original cylinder, takes some pumping to get to 100psi... still no retracting. I've given up, once trimmed out in the air I'll roll inverted to hopefully get the retracts to retract.
If anyone knows of half decent retracts without breaking the bank account, air or electric for a 10kg plane, please let me know.
Other than a few things to trim & tidy, replace these plastic bushed wheels with bearing 3.5" ally wheels.

cloud_master

Hello.

I have the 2nd version of the KMP T-28. It's been a long time coming, but mine is near airworthy. I did the first engine run up yesterday, DA-50 with a 3-blade 20X10. I found that even after adding a 3/4" block under the nose wheel strut, it's still to short, and I need another 5/8" to make the airplane level and not want to cut grass. So I am in contact with Robart to get a new front strut remade. That and i need to balance it yet. I'm still struggling to get the exact point to measure the 3.5" back from. The wide part of the wing root on the fueslage, or at the skinnier part where the wing plugs in. I know it is supposed to be 3.5" back from one of those two points.

The issue I had heard about with the version 2 wings, was the wing tube was a hair too short. I had replaced mine with a carbon fiber tube, and it goes into each wing panel 7" and bottoms out.

I did a rough weight and mine came in at 21.7 lbs. But not balanced yet, and I would imagine I will need nose weight.

-RW

SAM-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Ryan, what I have noted on the cg is that it is measured from where the wing joins the fuse. 3.5" puts it right centered on wing tube. I also checked how far my wing tubes go in the wings and 7 inches is what I came up with. I put this project on back burner mostly because I still have concerns to the wing construction. I have a bore scope that I'm going to use to see if I see anything of concern I just haven't got around to It. Good luck and let me know how it goes. Scott

AussieHoppy

FWIW I maidened mine recently.
I can't remember where I set the cg at but 3.5" sounds familiar, if you'd like me to confirm let me know
Mine's a v1 with the ply dihedral spar. Out of paranoia from what I've read about these birds I squeezed in epoxy glue on every timber join I could access, then epoxy glued the wing halves with spar, then fibreglassed the join. I also applied glue to ribs, firewall etc. Reason for all this was some time ago I had thrown an IC engine in and the poor thing rattled from loose timber components, hence the electric conversion.
I maidened with the T-Motor and found it was quite a weak motor, at least compared to a Tacon. With the 22x10x3 Beila she was borderline under powered and had a persistent nose up attitude, I was probably unrealistically optimistic this motor would swing a 22" 3 blader, even though I had performed a bunch of bench watt meter tests. Second flight with a 20x10x3 Beila made a very noticable difference, the extra speed on the 2nd flight certainly levelled the attitude much more, but still as I washed off speed to land she again had the nose up, enough to have me refraining from using flaps. I am yet to check empennage & incidence, mine came in at just shy of 12kg (compared to your 21.7 lbs/ 9.8kg) so I'm reluctant to shove additional weight up front until I do check the tail setup at least. At 12kg she sure does have quite some sink rate as I reduced throttle on final- not scary but sure have to manage throttle.

Last weekend I dug out the 65cc gasser and fired it up, only just got it running on the stand when rain set in, but once the carb primed she was starting on a single lazy flip, a good sign. So, I then committed to removing the electric propulsion, this weekend I'll mount the 65cc.
I have a 50cc spare but the reason I chose a 65cc was to negate the weight required in the nose. The electric motor/esc/large lipo's weigh approx the same as the 65cc. I've read guys used 45-55cc engines in this plane and still had to add weight to the nose, I kinda despise dead weight heh heh Also I'd really like to have the power to swing the 20"-22" 3 bladed Beila.

Off topic my air retracts simply won't play nice, so I'm going to see if I can wedge a set of Hanger9 P51 giant scale servo actuated retracts into the mains, electric will be much more reliable. Not sure what I'll do with the nose gear, might try have the air working on it for now.

Flight summary:
Roll out was fine.
1st take off, rotating underpowered with the 22" prop was a bit lazy to get off the ground (See vid).
2nd take off with the 20" prop had a much faster roll out and she literally rotated with no elev input, took me by surprise lol This is also a reflection of something someone else posted way back, they said to let her roll out with good speed and very gently lean on elev stick- don't pull back otherwise she'll leap up, I can attest to this.
Flown faster she was a pleasure, no bad habits. You'll know when you're getting slow, she gets uncomfortable.
At one point I did slow her down quite an amount up high and while I didn't seek stall, she did nothing other than sink.
Landing was relatively easy, due to the sink rate I kept a level attitude and managed throttle for decent on final.

A nice plane to fly, for sure. Glad I didn't get rid of mine now, and really keen to try the 65cc!

*IMPORTANT NOTE*
Check your firewal thrust angle!!
While making a solid timber cylindrical motor mount for the T-Motor I realised something was off... I discovered they'd built the firewall with up/right instead of down/right! To make it worse, the up was way too much!! I just guessed a bit of down angle (from centreline) when I installed the electric T-Motor, seemed to fly fine, no nose up or down on firewalling the throttle.

Hope this helps, let us know how you go please.

Here's a vid, dodgy hatcam and my good friend's out of focus cell phone.
There is a little cussing so be warned... we don't get together very often so it's like kids with there toys... with a hangover...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Qv...XcFI2xzhdv2Wrg

cloud_master

Ok, sounds good. I will check balance 3.5" back from where the wing attaches to the fuselage. I'm sure i'll need to add some lead to the nose yet.

I'm a little nervous about pulling out of a loop with this thing. I wish there were other folks on here that has the V2 that has flown theirs.

cloud_master

I've got an email and a call into Kondor yesterday to see if he has any other feedback from someone flying the two piece wing version. I haven't heard back yet...........

Also waiting to hear back from Robart in regards to making me a longer or lengthening the current nose strut so this airplane sits level. I already have a 3/4" block installed, and need another 5/8".

cloud_master

Do i balance with the gear down or up? Nose gear makes a big difference. When balance for level or slightly nose down, dropping the nose wheel makes it noticeably nose heavy? Im thinking balance for wheels up.....

cloud_master

For the folks that have balanced this at the 3.5", did you notice that this measurement isn't in the 25%-28% of total chord of the wing as the manual suggests??

3.6" is 25%, 28% is 4".

Right now, I took the suggestion of 3.5" and have it balanced for slightly nose down, inverted, gear up. When the gear is down, it is definitely nose heavy.

How have you guys been doing this?

AussieHoppy

Always balance a low wing plane inverted with gear up/retracted
Mine's in bits atm while converting to 65cc engine, when I'm closer to completing this mission I'll check my cg for you, 3.5" sounds familiar yet mine kind of flew like it was still a little tail heavy, and I hadn't retracted the gear otherwise it would've flown a little more tail heavy, yet to look into this a little more before the next gasser flight

Old Erkki

Greetings from Finland

Not so nice news but everybody was OK after incident and even plane can be repaired
http://www.aamulehti.fi/kotimaa/kone...turmapaikalla/

Plane started to smoke, make strange noise and lost height, Captain made controlled force landing.

Incident happenened last weekend during Jämi Airshow
http://www.jamiflyin.com/

Old Erkki

cloud_master

Well, I had my maiden flight yesterday. 4 flights in total. Take off's and landings were fairly uneventful. I am struggling with the C.G. however. First flight was tail heavy, and that's balanced at 3.5" back. The 1st flight required full down elevator trim to make the airplane fly hands off. In fact, still required some down elevator for level flight at full throttle. The subsequent 3 flights I added nose weight. After the 4th flight, I still had to fly with full nose down trim, and was still pitch sensitive. On landing, my elevator is coming to neutral, maybe. I should be able to get some up elevator in on landing and flare, but I haven't been able to do it yet, as the pitch is still sensitive. That basis alone, i think it needs more nose weight. I do believe, the incidence between the horizontal stab and wing is set for negative incidence on the leading edge of the horizontal, making the tail drop.

Any thoughts??

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

My son is flying my KMP T-28, the first version with a one piece wing and orange and white color. It definitely had an incidence issue on the stab also, added washers to the engine mount for more down and right thrust and it solved the problem, cant remember how much weight I added under the engine but it took several 2 oz lead sinkers. flies great now.