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ZIROLI 94" P-40 WARHAWK BUILD

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Old 10-12-2010, 08:25 AM
  #26
lovetoflyguy
 
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Hey Sammy,

I have the same fuse as you do. M&M models produces it. It is a great Fuse. The same make as our meisters!

Yeah, I was at Monsters. Wow what a great event. You and I should go down there together next year...it would be a blast!

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Old 10-12-2010, 01:06 PM
  #27
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Sam,

Your using the same technique I'm using for the 3 piece wing on my Monster Corsair. Except I wlded three of the C brackets from sig together and then milled an 18" spade to slide into it. The spade will be permanently mounted in the outer wing panels that will hang on the van's wall in wing bags. I am using dowels in the fron and back of the wing for alignment and to keep it from twisting. Then I am also adding a bolt in front and rear to help hold the LE and TE together. The C brackets has bolts that pinch the spade when it's in place. This made my center section just narrow enough to fit in between the wheel well of my Cargo van. I am installing an electric hoist to pull it in from the nose.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:02 PM
  #28
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

NCIS,
thanks for the tips and picture and the manufacturer that makes brackets.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:40 PM
  #29
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Sam,

After you get the brackets depending on how many you want to line up together have a custom aluminum welder weld them for you so they are not just tacked together but have a solid weld that won't break. I also put hardwood stock above and below them so that with vibration and time the bolt holes won't take any stress and elongate making for a weak and sloppy system. The spade is not a standard size so I had to have a friend at a CNC shop make them special for me so they just slide in and out with very little room to spare. If you use 1/8" there will be too much slop. When you get the smaller 3" brackets and 9" spades from Sig you will be able to measure the thickness and see it is metric and over 1/8". Go into your center section and outer panel at least 3 ribs and they must be plywood ribs. I don't remember on the P-40 if the ply ribs went out that far so you may have to cut them yourself. Then I cut notches in the ribs in the center section before buidling it so I could slide the spade in them On the outer panels I'm using 1/8" aircraft ply for the shear webs instead of balsa. Then I have to shim them out with thiner ply to get the spade to line up with the brackets just right. I hope this makes sencse. I will be building my outer wing panels soon on my Monster Corsair build thread if you need to see how I am going to do it. My laser cutter modified all these ribs by cutting the notches so they line up for me when he cut the outer wing panels.

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Old 10-12-2010, 03:46 PM
  #30
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

NCIS,
Thanks for the extra info.
I could not locate the brackets on SIG's website: they must be called something other than brackets.
Finally found them: wing joiners.

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Old 10-12-2010, 04:21 PM
  #31
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Trent Smith,
Please post some videos when you fly your AWESOME P-40F.

Out Here,
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:29 PM
  #32
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Yep, thats what their called. I ordered 3 sets to get 6 c brackets. For 95" you probable could get away with 2 on each side in the center section and a 12" spade made for the wing panels.

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Old 03-04-2011, 03:30 PM
  #33
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Question for anyone using a Quadra 75 in it.

Does the carb and exhaust fit inside the cowling with this engine?

Any pics with this set up? Considering a Q75 for mine.

Thanks for replies
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:05 PM
  #34
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

That's what I am using, and although I haven't mounted the engine yet, that part is next up, and it looks like it will drop in there without anything showing.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:33 AM
  #35
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

The cowl on the P-40, unlike the P-51, is, surprisingly, very large at the bottom. If a slim line muffler is used, and possibly the engine may have to be slanted 5 degrees, or so, it seems like just about any large gas engine should fit in there.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:38 AM
  #36
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Hello I have a Q-75 in my Ziroli P-40 and it took to the air last year. There is more than enough power for it. The only thing I did not know at the time was there was a twist in one wing tip causing for full left trim aileron, and full left rudder just to fly straight. I did not build the plane, got it all built up with the LG. My friend got it back on the ground in one piece but I have to build a new wing before it can fly again.
The carb will stay inside the confines of the cowel. But you will have to put a hole in the black portion of the mouth so you can choke it. I'd post a picture but haven't figured out how to do that here on RCU
yet so I'll keep trying. Hope this info helps. John T.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:03 PM
  #37
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Thanks for replying JT. Are you also swinging a 3 blade? If so, whats a good size Dia. and pitch for it?
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:20 PM
  #38
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Sorry only a 24/10 2 blade. I know of a chart for multiple blades. Been a while but I think you can use a 22/10 3 blade. Zinger makes them as a complete unit with replaceable blades. It would fit inside
the spinner but I don't know of anyone using a 3 blade on a Q-75. So I don't know what the performance would be. Hopefully someone out there in the R/C world might know. Good luck John T.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:52 PM
  #39
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Planning stage

Since I don't need the plans anymore for the B-26, I thought that I'd get the P-40 plans out (plus, I needed some fresh 'stuff' to keep the 'juices flowing'!).

3-piece wing conversion:
I thought I'd could use a tube to connect the outer wings but, after comparing the retracts to the F6F, as you can see in the picture, the oleos are a lot shorter (the wheel would hit the wing tube) so I'll have to use the SIG C bar wing joiner kit as on the B-26.
Looks like a natural break is at rib W-5.
The main spar is a set of narrow V shaped ply.
It seems best to cut one large spar that spans across W-5 by two ribs, mount the Sig C-bar to the spar and then cut between the two W-5 ribs (same procedure as on the B-26). As with the B-26, I'll mount the C bar high on the spar and put a metal strap along the bottom and secure the bottom with a screw, which will keep the outer wing from flexing up when in flight.
I'll 'sleep on this' in case I come up with a better solution.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:48 PM
  #40
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

3 piece wing:

An old trick from woodworking: the metal bar was a little loose in the C bar so some dimples, using a center punch, along the edge will make the bar a 'skoch' larger and remove slop.
I cut a full width 1/8" thick aircraft ply spar that goes from W-1 through W-7.
Also, 16 new ribs were cut using 1/8" thick aircraft ply (4 W-5's for where the wings meet).
I cut them using a 1/8" wide blade on the band saw and then sanded them on an oscillating belt sander.
The plans have a large servo tray and dowel cut outs in W-1. The new ribs were made without these items as I will either put two dowels in the LE or put two bolts near the LE.
The linkage system to move the flaps and ailerons will be replaced with the usual direct servo linkage to each moving surface.

The bar wing assembly was drilled for #6 bolts/nuts and epoxied/screwed to the new ply spar.
The spar was then cut at location W-5.

A 1/4"X1/2" spruce spar was pinned to the plans the entire length of the wing.
The center wing gets a double spar, both along the bottom as well as the top of the ply spar.
The inside edges of the ply spar was cut at the appropriate dihedral angle. Another 1/8" thick aircraft ply will be epoxied across the the ply spar where they meet in the center.

The remaining balsa ribs were dry fitted to the bottom spar.
Since I converted the wing to a 3-piece, I cut the slots in the ribs and spars individually, as I dry fitted each rib to the spar to insure all was aligned properly.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:50 PM
  #41
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

3 piece wing (cont)

Dry fit:
Also, the 1/4" riser for wing 'washout'.
Center dihedral wing ply that will bind the two ply spars.
Ribs W-5 are 'sistered' to make the 3 piece wing.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:54 PM
  #42
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Hey Sam,
This is Bruce, we talked at Owatonna and Fond du Lac about this build. I have the Ziroli P-40 with the skull to refresh your memory. I'm almost done with the wood fuse and have been watching for you to start this wing. After following your Marauder build I know I'll never keep up. I'm going to follow your lead, but you are such a fast builder I'll still be glueing ribs while you are glassing and painting!

A couple of questions if you don't mind.

What is your reasoning for building it as one 8 ft. wing vs. building two halves and joining them later? Not sure I have room to build it all at once. Also, do you have a picture of the notches in the spar and interlocking notches in the ribs? Did you notch the top of the spar and bottom of the rib or vice versa?
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:14 PM
  #43
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Yo Bruce,
Actually, I'm only dry fitting the entire wing to insure everything aligns correctly. This insures that there are no 'surprises down the road' and I have a complete 'picture' and understanding of how everything 'goes together' (it's also hard to cut parts after they've been 'glued up'. The order that I'll use is 1) glue one side of the inner wing (ribs, spars, LE/TE) on the plans, 2) glue the other inner wing on the plans, 3) glue the two inner wings halves, together getting proper dihedral, 3) laying one side of the center wing on the plans (other side sticks up in the air due to the dihedral), connect the C bar spar to the center wing on the plans and build up that outer wing, and last 4) lay the other side of the center wing on the plans and connect the C bar spar to the center wing and build that side.
I'm sure there are other ways but this worked well for me on the B-26.
Putting the wing bars on before cutting the main ply spar insures that all 3 wings are correctly aligned. I can now modular build (I was a programmer in my 'former' life and breaking up a complex design into modules makes the task easy).

You could build them separately and, later, join them: but doing the C bar joint, first will make the task easier.
I find the two joining ribs usually aren't parallel to each other (if built separately), so I just cut the 1/4" (or what ever size) spars, clamp the ribs together, and then I can sister the cut spar with another piece of wood. Heck, this can happen even with the C bar done first, but in the early stages of construction, it is easy to rectify.

I cut the notches on the bottom of ribs W-1 to W-4 and the top of the respective spar locations because it's easier to put the spar on the plans and then just lay the ribs into the spar notches. This way, minor adjustments to each rib can easily be done without having to take the spar off the plans.
Ribs W-5 to W-7 can't be done this way since the C bar wing joiner is on top so everything has to be reversed.
This isn't too bad as the center wing only has W-5 reversed and the wing can be epoxied pretty easily.
Then the outer wing can be assembled using ribs R-5 to R-7 to the out C bar and spar and then put on the plans, and I'll probably just glue it 'in place'. The rest of the ribs can just be glued to the bottom spar and built up easily.
To insure I have 'washout' in the wings, I always sheet the top on the plans with the 'washout' risers. I can then remove the wings, install hardware and then sheet the bottom.

ps: my table is just a cheap hollow core door (20 bucks). I needed it longer and just screwed another part of a door to it and propped it on some saw horses. When my 'building season' is over, I can easily dismantle it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:24 PM
  #44
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Sam,
Thanks for the explanation, your steps make sense. I ordered the wing joiners and will start cutting ribs and spars shortly.

Are you going to put anti-rotation dowels in the W-5 ribs?

I know I'm getting ahead, but what have to decided to do with the flaps? I know that was something you were already thinking about last summer.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:40 AM
  #45
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

Bruce,
About an hour ago, I clamped W-5 ribs together and drilled out the anti-rotation pin holes (pictures, later).
Yesterday, I was thinking about the flaps and the byron system. I'm not sure if it will work since the byron flaps went into the side of the fuse and the P-40 goes under the fuse. I'm also considering just cutting the flap at W-5 and putting in two servos per flap side.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:32 AM
  #46
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

3 piece wing (cont)

Additional prep before 'glue up'.

No provisions are provided for wire/air line passages so I dry fitted the ribs and used a ruler to 'tick' mark the top of the ribs, removed the ribs from the plans, clamped the ribs together aligning the ticks and drilled out a 3/4" hole using a forstner bit. I also drilled holes in the main ply spar and the front of W-2/3 ribs for air lines to the retracts.

I may use nelsons piano hinge to attach the flaps so I cut a 1/4"X1/2" slot along the bottom of the ribs to accept a spruce spar.

The two ribs (W-3A/4A: gear ribs) had to be prep'ed that hold the retracts (picture shows old versus the new cut ribs).
Since I installed a full ply spar, the kits mini-spar is not needed.
The two gear ribs were cut from aircraft ply and they will be epoxied after the top sheeting is applied, but they were dry fitted to the main spar to insure alignment. W-3A could be cut with a slot going into the main spar. W-4A had to be 'butt' joined to the main spar since the C bar is in the way. The two gear ribs hang below the other ribs so they have to be installed later so the wing can be top sheeted while on the plans.

W-5 ribs (inner and outer wing) were clamped and drilled for anti-rotation pins.

This completes all prep so the right side of the inner wing was epoxied on the plans insuring alignment and washout. Only ribs W-1 through W-5 were epoxied to the main spar with the four 1/4"X1/2" spruce spars were epoxied on the plans. One 'baby step' at a time: next will be the same parts on the left half of the center wing and then all the small spars will be epoxied to the ribs.

The last picture is why I re-cut all the lite ply using aircraft ply for critical areas. Nick always indicates which parts, either on the plans or the materials list, of which parts should be aircraft ply.
A 35-40 lb plane traveling 30 MPH is landing on those mounts so aircraft ply, installed now, is a lot easier than fixing a gear rip out. After the gear ribs are installed, that entire area will also be glassed with HD auto FG cloth.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:15 PM
  #47
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

3-piece wing (cont)

Center wing (cont)

The left half of the center wing was epoxied together.
After it dried, I dry fitted the two halves together and checked alignment on the FG fuse.
I then buttered the two inner ribs W-1 plus the spar joiner and clamped the two halves together so the epoxy could 'cook'.

Outer wing:

prep before gluing:
cardboard tubes:
As with the inner wing, I ticked marked the tops of the ribs, clamped them together and used a forstner bit to drill the holes.

Dry fit the right outer wing:
Since the outer wings are removable, I used 1/4"X1/2" spruce for the main spar (top and bottom) for extra strength.
I outer wing tip is flat on top but curved on the bottom so I cut curfs in the bottom spar so it would easily bend up to rib W-12.
I'm using 1/4" square balsa sticks for the sub-LE and the back spar.
All notches in the ribs were checked for fit, and most needed to be sanded.
The outer wing was dry fitted to the inner wing to insure correct alignment not only with the two joining ribs W-5 but also the LE of both wings are perfectly straight to each other.


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Old 01-05-2012, 03:24 PM
  #48
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

outer wing (cont)

The dry fit wing was disassembled and epoxy was used to join the ribs to the main spruce spars and the ply spar that holds the aluminum bar.
Some mixed epoxy was left so I did the TE 1/4" square top spar.
Epoxy was also put in the kerf to insure it doesn't move after the wing is removed from the plans.
I, then switched over to carpenters glue and secured the sub-LE 1/4" square spar to the ribs.
Some lead weight was put along the spar to insure good alignment with the bottom spar and the washout riser.
As with the dry fit, the center wing was clamped to the outer wing via clamping the two ribs W-5.
This insures perfect alignment between the two wings.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:18 PM
  #49
samparfitt
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

outer wings (cont)

Right wing (cont)
After removing the clamps holding the right wing to the inner wing, I needed a razor saw to break free the two ribs W-5 ( I used masking tape which grabs the saw so, next, I'll try scotch tape).
The two mating ribs (W-5) align up perfectly. Should they, somehow, get out of alignment while adding the rest of the spars, I'll just cut the spar between two ribs, clamp the ribs together, and sister a piece of wood across the gap in the cut spar.

Dihedral:
Didn't realize there was so much dihedral in the P-40: almost 9", total.
That should make her a gentle flyer.
(that's suppose to be a measuring tape in the dark picture).

Left wing:
Did the same prep on the left wing and epoxied/carpenter glued the parts.
Let that 'cook', overnight.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:05 PM
  #50
samparfitt
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Default RE: ZIROLI 94

3-piece wing conversion (cont)

miscellaneous:

Before gluing all the small spars, I thought it best, and easier, to dry fit the two gear ribs (W-3A/4A) to make sure they fit as minor sanding needed to be done.

To strengthen the gear area, I made a paper template and then cut some 1/8" thick aircraft ply as a sub-LE for the center wing. This large V shape LE spans the weak center area around ribs W-1 and spans from W-1 to W-5.

Next, it was time to glue all the mini spars to the wings.
The top TE got 1/4" square spruce in the center wing and balsa on the outer wings.
The bottom TE got 1/4"X1/2" spruce along the flaps and the ailerons got 1/4" square balsa.
LE of ailerons got 3/16" square spruce.
Two mini spars 2/3 back on the center wing got 1/8" thick aircraft ply to strengthen the center glue joint.
1/4" square spruce for the LE of the center wing and balsa for the outer wings.
1/8"X3/8" balsa to support the leading edge of the boxed area for the flaps.
The flap and aileron end pieces (W-8a/b) were glued in the appropriate place on the TE of the wing.
The wing tips framing was glued forcing it up to match the contour of the P-40 wing.
All the spars were added while all 3 wings are clamped together to insure ribs W-5 exactly align with each other (mating surface ribs for the 3 wings).
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