JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

The TF ARF was modeled after one that is based near them so that is why they have the hard edged camo. The one that ESM modeled theirs after had soft edge camo put on during the restoration. That being said, I am not sure if the ESM one is the proper colors.
The nose on the TF is still too far off for my tastes. Niether one has the right wingtips

Stamper

My Feedback: (9)

Manfred,

Was there a special coupon to get it for $539 shipped? I know about the member discount, but I cannot find the $100 coupon a few have mentioned in other threads. Thanks.

US185Damiani

Just an FYI,
Curtiss used permanent Masks for their camo which produced a hard edge. and each airplane in the early E's had identical camoflage.

handyman 220

My Feedback: (54)

Stamper

It is a Gold preferred savings. Don't really know how much you have to spend before they e-mail you the offer, I can tell you I have spent quite a bit before I received the offer. The other $20 off was for being a club member.

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

exactly. no USAAF P-40's had soft edges. the ESM one is based on somebodies wild imagination on how the colours should be painted.
in fact,the ESM P-40 that they are basing itonwas manufacturedfor theRoyal Canadian Air Force serial #1082 in 1941. further more, the
black band across the Fin and rudder on the esm version was copied wrong from the original "restored" holdin my own which is brown.

pic below is the closest one is gonna get for " holdin my own" for paint. * notice no black or brown band.

masteromodels

My Feedback: (11)

I know they used mats for the seperation of the colors on the P-40's but they just layed the rubber mats on and they were fairly thick so when the y sprayed, the seperation line was not a real sharp hard line and after they were in the field and combat the sharp line dulled even more looking at a lot of the pictures of the AVG. machines you can notice a not so sharp line.If you look at Chuck Olders #68 both in color and black and white the lines blend a little plus this plane was weatherd a lot , as were a lot of the original P-40 B/C 's with the AVG. The botton color was not masked. I like to do mostly historical paint jobs on my planes and use mostly the actual black and white shots and some color photo's if I can find them. The biggest problem with the AVG colors are the different sources for the actual colors. They were mostly dark earth and dark green on top but with the AVG. some were a lighter earth color and the biggest discrepency is the gray on the bottom. I talked to Dave Platt many years ago about it and he sent me a letter and told me that as far as he kewn that the bottom color was British Sky type S. which is a light gray with a greenish tint but now most books will say thet used something simuliar to the british color but called sky gray in the dupont paints that they had in stock. I will post some pictures of my Jerry Bates P-40 B when I finish which should be in a couple of weeks . I will be doing R.T. Smith's #77

thanks bob

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

sweet deal!

you can see here the standard AVG camo. green, sand, & neutral grey underside. inside the mouth clearly shows it.
another non to duplicated area is the foward part of the nose and spinner are olive drab. lookin foward to seeing
pics of yours when its done!

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

The finish on the ESM airplane is based upon the restored P-40E wich currently resides in the War Eagles Air Museum in New Mexico. Despite what Curtis may have done this airplane is painted with a soft edge camo and, thus, it is correct for the model. The accuracy of the colors may leave a bit to be desired however! I do concur that the TF airplane has a much better scale outline but that's just my .02 cents.

da Rock

The original airplanes the AVG got was a 100 plane lot that was built to British specs. They were lend lease the British swapped back to the U.S. They were simply delivered to China instead of England. So there is a huge probability that they were painted in British colors.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

I would think thats the most likely senario. The underside would then be Sky. Of course we don't know if the planes were to be deliverd in natura alu. and then painted in the UK or not.
In any event the B and C model P-40 has my vote as being the sexier plane. The pointed nose really gives the shark mouth the correct look.

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

99 actually made it to the AVG (1 was destroyed in a shipping accident), also, the P-40's were not headed to England, they were suspose to goto France.
When France got there butts handed to them by Germany, the P-40's were diverted and after some backroom deals Chenualt got them for the 1st AVG.
So anyways those P-40 were painted in Olive drab when they left the factory (pic below shows the olivedrab around the Flying Tiger). the green/earth
colours were applied sometime later.

masteromodels

My Feedback: (11)

Thhat is a clear lacquer brushed over the Disney decal to protect it. Most of the books today are stating that Curtis used whatever paint that matched closley to the British colors that they had lying around that is one of the reasons you can see some variations on some of the planes. Aircraft Gray deignatedANA 512 was an excellent matchfor both British sky gray. I have seen color photos of some AVG that reveals what looks like neutral gray which is darker. Color photos can be very tricky when trying to establish correct shades that is why I usually use written documentation of what the color is suppose to be, especiall with the AVG. B"s. The twenty or so P-40E's came through with mostly Olive Drab on top and neutal Gray on the bottom but ther are exceptions to this also for example #104 when it was with the AVG it had the dark earth dark green camo. When I paint my P-40 I will use an air brush to do the camo. I will cut the spray down when doing the lines just enough to have a slight blurr between the colors. I do not like models that I have seen with the tape off look to me they look like models even if that was correct. I do know they did not have time to actually tape off the real ones during assembly, that is why they used the mats.

thanks bob

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

are you talkin about the 1st pic above your post?

masteromodels

My Feedback: (11)

I do not know if that particular #40 with R.T. Smith standing next to it is clear coated but I have read that most of them did protect them with a coat over them. The french fell before that order was manf. by curtis and the P-40's that went to the AVG wer painted at the factory with the Dk. Green & Earth not Olive Drab. One of the books actually shows the painters with the rubber matts painting them. I would doubt that Curtis would repaint them twice , no time for that , also what I here that the colors of the paint was not that important back then. I did some voulenter woork at our loca military history museum and talked to some WW11 air force vets from that era and a few were familar with processes back then. The Disney decal was not used in the beginning of the war that came about much later around end of April begining of May the # 40 would have not had olive drab showing over the lighter earth color on that paticular plane, if anything it would have been the Dark Green. Like I said before color photo"s from that era leave a lot to be desire as far as shade of the color.

thanks bob

da Rock

Guess there is a mystery about the origin...........

My "facts" came from 2 sources, the P-40 profile publication (done in 2 vols) that says..........

.... and from "FLYING TIGERS, Claire Chennault and his American volunteers, 1941-1942" that has this....

I guess history doesn't always repeat itself.

da Rock

The book I quoted above, "FLYING TIGERS, Claire Chennault and his American volunteers, 1941-1942" is really pretty good.

It covers in some detail the delivery and employment of the important bits to the AVG. It seems they setup an aviation business to assemble the planes. They showed up in crates, each plane in two train car size "boxes". The guy who setup the assembly hired a few experienced mechanics etc. It appears that the 1st plane they started assembling didn't make the grade. Sounds like some of our ARF projects. But it appears they sorted it and it might have been the last delivered.

It's also interesting that toward the end of the AVG's existence the factory had been shut down and replacement planes really became a problem.

It's really a decent book.

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

That's because I pre-ordered her when they first listed, that with the member discount plus $80 shipping brought it to $539.00 They have altered the price since then..... up of course!

masteromodels

My Feedback: (11)

Here is what I just found, I knew I read it somewhere . P-40 WARKHAWK in world war 11 color by jeffrey Ethell pg. 26 RAF TOMAHAWK 11'S emblazoned with Walt Diasen's flying tiger decal, which has been created and shipped free of charge to Channault , for preservation, each of the decals was shellacked, clearly evident on # 40. R.T. Smith. A great book for info on the AVG. is Osprey aircraft of the Aces #41 , American Volunteer Group Colours and Markings by Terrillo Clements ( this is the best ) also The Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers by Larry Pistole , Moss Publications.

thanks bob

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

I don't know alot about P-40s and such. but I do know that the first 100 (or 99 depending on how you look at it)
were olive drab that were then painted in RAF dressat one of the RAF depots in either India or Burma

masteromodels

My Feedback: (11)

I did read and see pictures of them unlodoading them at their final destination and they were already in camo. they were just assembled after they were unpacked. I would have to look it up when I get a chance. The P-40 has always been my favorite plane since I was about 10 yrs. old. I remember our family use to take trips to the country on weekends to buy fresh corn and some other farm grown crops and we use to pass Willow Grove Naval air station on the way outside of Phila. They had a P-40 parked by the fence facing the highway and also an ME-262 and a Jap float plane. Well needless to say that P-40 with the shark teeth grabed my imagination. Since then wich was either the late 40's or early 50's that has been my favorite. Funny thing I was looking at Sqadron/Signal pub. Walk Around P-40 #8 and low and behold there is a picture of it , on the next to the last page. It was a derelic looking P-40N in bogus AVG. markings. The picture was taken in 1958.

thanks bob

WEAVE

My Feedback: (47)

Hey guy's you are worried about counter balances but no one mention the lack of a rectractable tail wheel. For those of us who are builders these are easy fixes. I wonder about the use of a 85cc engine in this bird it was designed for 50 to 65cc power I have seen a P-51 and a P-47 arf. have inflight structural failure due to being over powered. If you intend to use a larger engine than recomended by the Manufacture it would be a good idea to reinforce the wing and stab. I saw the P-40 fly at Joe Nall and the DA-50 had plenty of power and the plane flew very scale like. I am looking forward to getting mine and spend some time in detailing and weathering mine good luck to all and happy Flying Tiger time gear up and locked. Ronnie

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

The Tp-40 is set up to add a retract tailwheel

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

heres a B&W pic of a RAF P-40 in Burma. curiously in Olive Drab w/ Grey underside.

masteromodels

My Feedback: (11)

that is RAF not AVG. Thre were plenty of P-40's in olive drab and also desert scheme it depended what area or country it was goung to be used in. and some were also repainted in the field. A friend of mine just finished his ESM P-40 and it does have a retractable tail wheel and the TOP-Flite is also set up for one you caneither pur a non retractable tail wheel or purchase the retractable one seperate same goes for the ESM.

thanks bob

da Rock

Interesting picture of an RAF aircraft. Obviously, the author of Flying Tigers doesn't concern himself with where the RAF aircraft that the RAF operated in that theater came from or how they were painted. He does hit the AVG issue directly in words. As for the issue about the AVG airplanes, the author researched everything he could about them and came up with what the records show. The book also has pictures that disclose a fair amount of info if you look closely.

There are pictures in the book of AVG planes during assembly at Mingaladon by CAMCO. They don't have the teeth as you'd expect. It is obvious they have two different colors on top. It's also obvious from different pictures that show the same airplane that were taken at the same time, that pictures from back then age differently.

The book happens to have a B&W of a plane that looks curious too. Your attachment really appears to show some areas that're lighter than others. The book's curious picture appears to have a bit less aging but shows the same lighter areas only they're more distinctive than the one you attached. But beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. So if I had to bet, I'd bet on what the author wrote about the topic.

What might be pertinent is that nowhere is there a suggestion that the 100 planes the AVG got in crates were all from the same mfg lot. Ford says they were 3 colors but it's entirely possible some were and some weren't. There is usually a reason one historian says one thing and another historian says something different.

whatever.... The book by Daniel Ford is a very in-depth look at the Flying Tigers and worth the $16 it costs in paperback.