ESM current retracts
02-01-2011, 02:07 PM
#27
RE: ESM current retracts
I put Sierra retracts on my 74" corsair and put the ESM retracts on an old P-40 that weighs about the same (18 lbs). I got the ESM retracts in March, 2010, so they are of the recent generation. I have had good luck with their operation, holding air, and generally working properly.
However, on 17th flight with these retracts the screw that aligns the up and down motion of the oleo sheared at the top of the thread (a stress riser point), allowing that oleo to rotate. I checked the other screw and found it was loose. Both screws had been beating the strut near the top of the slot as they stopped oleo rotation motion. I tried tightening the good screw, but then it barely caught on the strut. Obviously would not work much longer. This good screw is the smaller screw in the first picture. I replaced each of the orginal screws with a black 4mm d x 15mm L cap screw also shown in the picture. I cut off a couple of mm with a dremel.
The hole in the oleo for this alignment screw goes all the way through the oleo and is tapped all the way. The 4x15 screw can go through and hit the strut on the far side if you are not careful. The second picture shows the new screw installed. This picture also shows a white spot (flash reflection) near to top, left side of the alignment slot. This is where the screw has been deforming the strut as it stops the oleo rotation motion.
Just something else to check.
Brian
However, on 17th flight with these retracts the screw that aligns the up and down motion of the oleo sheared at the top of the thread (a stress riser point), allowing that oleo to rotate. I checked the other screw and found it was loose. Both screws had been beating the strut near the top of the slot as they stopped oleo rotation motion. I tried tightening the good screw, but then it barely caught on the strut. Obviously would not work much longer. This good screw is the smaller screw in the first picture. I replaced each of the orginal screws with a black 4mm d x 15mm L cap screw also shown in the picture. I cut off a couple of mm with a dremel.
The hole in the oleo for this alignment screw goes all the way through the oleo and is tapped all the way. The 4x15 screw can go through and hit the strut on the far side if you are not careful. The second picture shows the new screw installed. This picture also shows a white spot (flash reflection) near to top, left side of the alignment slot. This is where the screw has been deforming the strut as it stops the oleo rotation motion.
Just something else to check.
Brian
02-01-2011, 03:41 PM
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RE: ESM current retracts
Brian,
I'll check mine for tightness. Do you have thread lock on yours? Would it really make any difference here?
I have been told the ESM 74" Corsair retract does not have an up lock and depends on air pressure to hold it in place. With no air leak, guess this isn't really an issue. What are your thoughts?
Thanks,
Dick
I'll check mine for tightness. Do you have thread lock on yours? Would it really make any difference here?
I have been told the ESM 74" Corsair retract does not have an up lock and depends on air pressure to hold it in place. With no air leak, guess this isn't really an issue. What are your thoughts?
Thanks,
Dick
02-01-2011, 04:57 PM
#29
RE: ESM current retracts
No threadlock on the original installation. I didn't even realize those were screws.Don't know if threadlock would have made a difference with the head shearing off though. Another post in this thread had a comment about the alignment screw shearing off. I did put threadlock on my fix.
The ESM retracts that came with my 74" corsair do lock in the up position. I just doubled checked that feature. Used air to raise the retracts, bled off the air, and the retracts are still locked up. Maybe an earlier version did not lock.
Except for this alignment screw problem, I've been satisfied with these retracts. The Sierras are definitely better if you are willing to spend the $$.
The ESM retracts that came with my 74" corsair do lock in the up position. I just doubled checked that feature. Used air to raise the retracts, bled off the air, and the retracts are still locked up. Maybe an earlier version did not lock.
Except for this alignment screw problem, I've been satisfied with these retracts. The Sierras are definitely better if you are willing to spend the $$.
06-01-2011, 05:07 AM
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RE: ESM current retracts
Pilotchute, I have the F7F with the ESM retracts and they are holding up great.
No problems so far.
Ordered the 83" FW190 with ESM retracts and the B-25, So far there products have held up extreamly well.
No problems so far.
Ordered the 83" FW190 with ESM retracts and the B-25, So far there products have held up extreamly well.
06-01-2011, 05:16 PM
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RE: ESM current retracts
This thread is really depressing me; I have a BH Corsair(small one) and BH T-6 waiting to be assembled, both with the same in house version retracts aforementioned. The T-6 was a bargain, so I coulddeal with a redo with him, but the Corsair was not. Are these retract units really that bad?
06-01-2011, 06:31 PM
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RE: ESM current retracts
H. Wayne, glad to hear his. Too late for me. Bought another brand. I was sure the ESM would not hold up on this 23lb. plane. Ha. How many flights? Other than loctite, did you do anything special when setting up the retracts?
06-17-2011, 06:52 PM
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RE: ESM current retracts
hi, I have about 20 landings on my P-47 now, no problems with the ESM retracts, I bought another ESM model, the P-51B, with the ESM retracts, went over the units, one was OK, but I pulled all the bolts out and put them back in with blue silastic, the other unit, virtually all the bolts were loose, except for 2 that had crook heads and I havent been able to get out, so far, put all the bolts back in with the silastic, they should be right now.
the second set had grease on the oleo's also "O" rings, I dont remember that on the first set.
So far I have no Problems with these units, mine on the P-47 (just under 7kg) will hold air for weeks, I have the Robart valve, the tank is mounted on the wing, no quick release fittings. after having a good look at the new set, if they start to get a bit loose it wouldnt be all that hard to shim them.
Oldtimer.
the second set had grease on the oleo's also "O" rings, I dont remember that on the first set.
So far I have no Problems with these units, mine on the P-47 (just under 7kg) will hold air for weeks, I have the Robart valve, the tank is mounted on the wing, no quick release fittings. after having a good look at the new set, if they start to get a bit loose it wouldnt be all that hard to shim them.
Oldtimer.
06-18-2011, 05:54 AM
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RE: ESM current retracts
Very glad to hear this Oldtimer. The ESM gear has been getting a bad rap. Maybe justified on the older mods? Dunno. The alternates are so darned expensive and the ESM gear looks good so using it until problems is how I'm gonna approach it.
Thanks for your input.
Thanks for your input.
06-18-2011, 06:09 AM
#36
RE: ESM current retracts
Well let me throw another wrench into the pile.
Maidened my FW-190 w/o pulling up the G5 ESM gear. Second flight I pulled them up and never got both down until after the plane flipped on its back. Loss of air completely. All ESM hardware. After looking around at different systems, I bit the bullet and ordered up some new linear actuators from Wingspanretracts.com.
Going to the LHS to see about the Robarts 3 way and changing out the line as has been recommended by others in the FW thread.
Maidened my FW-190 w/o pulling up the G5 ESM gear. Second flight I pulled them up and never got both down until after the plane flipped on its back. Loss of air completely. All ESM hardware. After looking around at different systems, I bit the bullet and ordered up some new linear actuators from Wingspanretracts.com.
Going to the LHS to see about the Robarts 3 way and changing out the line as has been recommended by others in the FW thread.
06-18-2011, 03:44 PM
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RE: ESM current retracts
hello Revy,
OK, so they didnt come down, you say they lost all the air, so there must be a leak of some kind, do you know where the leak is,
there is an old saying, "if it has retracts or ****, you WILL have problems" but both look good.
if it was a leaking cylinder, there are several fixes for that,
we can find someone at a club that has had problems with any brand of retracts, no matter what they cost, I think these are extremely good for the $$$, I could not afford to pay almost as much for the retracts as the model cost me.
can you give more details as to what you found to be the cause of your air loss, it might just save someone else the same problem.
cheers, Oldtimer.
OK, so they didnt come down, you say they lost all the air, so there must be a leak of some kind, do you know where the leak is,
there is an old saying, "if it has retracts or ****, you WILL have problems" but both look good.
if it was a leaking cylinder, there are several fixes for that,
we can find someone at a club that has had problems with any brand of retracts, no matter what they cost, I think these are extremely good for the $$$, I could not afford to pay almost as much for the retracts as the model cost me.
can you give more details as to what you found to be the cause of your air loss, it might just save someone else the same problem.
cheers, Oldtimer.
01-31-2012, 07:08 AM
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RE: ESM current retracts
Guys,
I have the ESM retracts for the ESM 72.5 in Spitfire.
they hold air well, the only leak I've identified is in my quick disconnects that came with my robart tank and valve. Easy fix.
Soft aluminum is a problem, I had a screw shear like some of you, and I used long set screws and replaced the oleo slot screws with them. Luckily it sheared while taxiing before the maiden, so I was able to fix it before it caused problems.
One thing I DIDNT see coming was the axle that seized my aluminum wheel that came with the retract. On my 3rd landing, they seized and the plane flipped onto it's back,, smashing the canopy. It's already a bear to keep from nosing over on landing, with the binding in the axles, it's impossible to avoid.
I'm replacing my axles with steel bolt on axles. And, I'm doing to lube the crap out of them. Aluminum wheels with aluminum axles and little lube is a bad idea on these retracts, especially after one or two hard landings (which is my MO, unfortunately).
I'll reemphasize.. I think they are great retracts, they hold air, and I can get about 12 cycles with 100 psi... no retracting or lowering issues. The issues all have to do with soft metal, requiring loctite on the screws and lube on the axles.
Also, if you loctite the screws in the strut / slot of the oleo... make sure after it dries, you check oleo operation to make sure loctite didn't seep out of the screw hole... else you have no shock absorption. That happened to me; I had to remove the screw again, clean up the strut, and redo it correctly, with less loctite.
I'm happy with the retracts, once I get all of the *&^&%&^^(&* ing problems fixed. I think they are worth the money, if you do the prep work to ensure they function correctly. Also, they look very scale with the robart valve, mine even retract unevenly, like the full scale spitfire.
Again, I'd recommend paying a lot of attention to your axles if you have metal wheels like I do.
I like them enough that I'm getting ESM retracts for my ESM corsair. Now I know how to deal with them and save some money. I might go the electric route with the upgrade board from TBM so I have 10 second retracts instead of 40 second retracts.
-Mike
01-31-2012, 10:21 AM
#40
RE: ESM current retracts
I'm liking mine. They look great and are beefy. Mine are the new electrics and I am also waiting on the upgrade board since they are slow as molasses.
07-10-2012, 09:59 AM
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RE: ESM current retracts
I ordered a set of "Sierra ESM retracts" for my F8F Bearcat....from VQ Warbirds. These are air retracts. Does anyone have an opinion about "Sierra ESM retracts"?
I purchased a set of ESM electric retracts for the Bearcat but I don't trust them.
I purchased a set of ESM electric retracts for the Bearcat but I don't trust them.
07-10-2012, 10:13 AM
#42
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RE: ESM current retracts
The Sierra retracts I bought for my F7F are strong enough to support a tank. A bit heavy but what am I gonna do? Wish I had the loot to buy Sierra across the board. It take a while to get them so be patient if they are not in stock.
Best of luck. Let us know how this works for you.
Dick
Best of luck. Let us know how this works for you.
Dick
