pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

Could I have your opinion of how well the current design of ESM retracts function and especially hold up? I'd use the Robart air valve. The design looks OK for the 13-15 lb. planes, but how about the 20+ lb. birds? Sierra is armor plated, but yikes, spending more for the retracts than the F7F smarts a little. A firm believer in "ya get what ya pay for" is being debated in my pea brain v. being to cheap to want to pay the freight.

Dick

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I have the rotating gear , paid $200 from KMP , I would be lucky to sell them new at $125 , does that tell you anything

jmohn

My ESM retracts are 50/50 right now. I had them break on one plane and the other one has been fine. I have Sierra on the other two and they are much stronger. If you land well the ESMs will be fine, but not too many of us always land well

I had mine ripped off one plane as I landed one side in the dirt and the other side on the pavement and they were fine. Tore one side right off the plane and they still work great (Sierra gear). I had the same thing happen on another plane (ESM gear) and they are broken beyond repair now. I do hate how narrow our runway is [:@]



Jeff

fw190

My Feedback: (37)

I would say the ESM gears (only have one set) is not as strong as Robarts or Sierras, however the ESM gears handle the plane just fine until of course I punish them with my rough landings. If all my landings were great then I may not have any issues. IMHO the ESM gears have a good design, the aluminum parts are soft.

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

jmohn, how heavy are the planes you have with ESM retracts? The F7F is the plane I'm worried about (23 lb.). The other, lighter models I have with ESM retracts are holding up OK, kinda.

What I'm wrestling with is spending twice as much for the landing gear as the plane itself. Of course, in balance, if the gear collapses all the time, and ruins the plane, being a cheapskate is darn foolish.

I really respect those guys that add cockpits and sliding canopies and scale guns, but if I have planes that are so nice (and expensive) I tend to not want to fly them. Go figure. So, I have to strike a balance with myself.

My field is grass. Pretty good, but not asphalt.

Now what to you think?

jmohn

Pilot,

I had them on my Me-110 (broke), now Sierra. I have them on my Hurricane and they have been fine (21 lbs.). I built a KMP Bearcat for a buddy and flew it a couple times with stock ESM gear and they were fine. It's a great flying plane if you keep it light. You need a lot of nose weight so move everything up front before you add weight. It a great plane and flies like a jet. Make sure you use JB weld or a hysol glue not standard epoxy when glueing the wings and tail section together. The regular epoxy does not hold onto the glass and paint they used on that plane.


Jeff

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

Jeff, thanks. As you said before you are 50/50 and both planes are heavy as mine. If you were me would you just spend the bucks and quit worrying?

Thanks for the JB weld advise. I will follow your advise because I'm using a couple of O.S. 1.2's for power, which is a little much.

Evil_Merlin

My Feedback: (13)

I have the Gen5 stuff for my Bf 109.

Crap.

The Sierra and Shindin stuff is not that much more expensive than the ESM CRAP. Be safe, go Sierra or Shindin from the start

jmohn

Can't have too much power

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

Growler84

My Feedback: (8)

In my experience (82" Hurricane and 50cc Corsair) the ESM gear falls right into the get-what-you-pay-for category. In other words, for the price the ESM gear is satisfactory. Do throw away the accompanying gear accessories and use the Robart stuff you already mentioned. My 20 pound Hurricane has around 15 flights on it, the ESM gear is holding up for the most part with axle bending and general loosening being the two major detractors. The axle bending stems from some less than perfect landings (and I mean "perfect" as the benchmark, see the picture) and too soft a metal used in the axles. Both retract mechanisms and strut assemblies are very, very loose though the plane still manages to track ok on takeoff and landings. The Corsair is not operational yet so no data on wear & tear however, the materials and assembly style are the same as the Hurricane gear (gen5) so I expect a simular experience once these gear are put in use. As I've mentioned in the Hurricane thread, my big gripe with the Corsair gear was the lack of a mechanical uplock to prevent the gear from sagging during positive g maneuvering. I fixed that issue but for the same price you get the more robust Robart rotators and they have a mechanical uplock.

My summary (and opinion), the ESM gear work, but they are not designed and assembled for long-term service life.

kahloq

ive got the ESM P-51 gear. So far they have worked great even on less then great landings. But....I did have to unscrew the air cylinder from teh piston and wrap silicon tape(plumber tape) around the threads to seal the chamber. Once I did that, they hold air just as good or better then Sierra, Robart, etc.

Ive also got the ME-110 gear but havent installed it yet.
For the price...yea..Id get another set as well..in fact will get a set for the ESM Fw-190.

As for the axles, well, you can easily go to ACE hardware or whatever hardware store and get some hex head bolts with the same thread size and pitch for replacements when needed.m Cost? About 30 cents

Tom in Cincy

My Feedback: (16)

Do you know the Part # of the Robarts. Are they Model 148's ? I hope to order a ESM 50cc Corsair this week and I was going to get their retracts. If the Robarts are better I'll get them instead. All the pictures I have seen of the ESM retracts look to have plenty of metal. Strictly from the pictures the included struts, tires and tail wheel assemble looks nice. But I Must agree that the missing uplock is a bummer.

Growler84

My Feedback: (8)

Call Robart to confirm, but I'd use the set specified for the Top Flight Corsair kit since the models are roughly the same size. I agree with you on the ESM gear appearance, that's why I ordered them and came up with my own uplock system. But, to do it over again I'd go Robart.

From the earlier reply concerning the axles bending, abolutely good call on replacing the axles with bolts. I haven't done that yet because when I tried to remove the axles I applied up to moderate twist on them using a 10 inch Cresent wrench and they didn't budge. Knowing how soft the metal is I was afraid I'd twist them off leaving the rest of the axle imbedded in the strut. So, I just bent the potmetal axles straight for now.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

I upgraded my gear with LADO electric actuators and there allot more robust we shall see how well they handle some rough landings but they seem to operate well enough now.

ZERO-322

My Feedback: (2)

On what plane did you use the lado's and what was the finish weight of the plane ?

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

This is what I can tell you about there retracts they work but the screw they use to align the up and down motion of the oleo strut assembly will shear under torsional flexing. The air cyclinders will leak air unless you get a lucky set. The screw can be replaced with another of higher tensil strength and the air cyclinder can be disassembled and repaired. The repair action requires the use of plumber teflon tape wrapped around the fixture the "O" ring sits in. The "O" ring provided is the wrong diameter and allows air to seep by. Using the tape increases the diameter of the "O" ring and provides a permannt seal. This will be a trial an error method of repair. Normal air pressure of 100psi may or may not be sufficient to overcome the weight of the wheel assembly they provide. I ran mine on 120 psi and got six retractions using a Robart air tank. Don't use the accessories provided, buy yourself Robart gear. Lubricated all pivot points. This also incudes the piston rod. For $140 USD and additional outlay for the "Robart" parts the retract system will work. They sure look realistic.

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

Fly, is this the Gen 5 (current) retracts too? Read another post about the tape. Can the O-ring be accessed/replaced? Another post talks of loosening up. Have you seen this too?

Darn things sure LOOK good and for the money, what a deal, but if I've gotta be fooling around with them all the time, then maybe the trouble isn't worth the savings.

Thanks guys for the posts. Really appreciate.

Dick

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

When I received my retracts there was nothing included telling me what generation they were. I purchased them this year. The pistion assembly comes apart. No special tools needed. The "O" ring is meteric, didn't take any measurements.

oldtimer4759

Hi there,
mine are only new, for the P-47, silver version with the bubble canopy, air up and air down, all silver finish, anyone know what generation they are,

the other thing I found with mine was that the wheels are a loose fit on the axles. I will have to get spacers machined up.

other than that they went together OK, I have pumped them up and they held pressure for 24 hours, then I did 4 or 5 cycles.

I still havent flown the model as yet, soon. I am going to pull the retracts out, double check everything, lube the struts as mine were a bit tight, then make sure every bolt and so on is locked in place, I tend to use silastic for a lot of things, it will stop a bolt from vibrating loose but it can still be undone when required.
will spray some silicon lube into the system.

I have the complete setup on the wing, no joiners, Robart hose and control.

cheers, Oldtimer

oldtimer4759

hi all,

flown the model, only 3 flights so far, quite a few retract cycles, no problems with the ESM retract system, but as I said, early days. My model is a bit over 14 lbs, very nice to land, very good grass strip.

what are the common retract makers, Sierra's, Century jet, Robarts, there are others, what are they and what are they like.

cheers, Oldtimer.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

sorry it took so long to reply there ZERO-322 I havent been on RCU much lately, the LADO's I used were the actuator conversions for the ESM FW190 gear,www.magnumrc.com has them, I replaced the air pistons with the electric motors, they work great the plane is about 15 ish lbs.

the electric motors loock the ESM gear up and down nice and tight with no slack in the strut so far

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

Oldtimer, since you just got (???) the ESM retracts, I believe you have the latest, or Gen 5.

Think you have summarized the primary companies offering retracts. LADO, too, of course.

I just got some Sierra retracts for the ESM 74.5" Corsair. Almost identical in size to the ESM retracts but heavier and they use SS for the lower strut. Gear, wheels and tires cost $400 with shipping. I think the ESM would work for the bird, but there are no up locks in the ESM (Corsair only because of rotating design), relying on air pressure to keep them up, which of course should work just fine. I'm anal ,especially regarding retracts, so I could justify the $$$$.

Waiting for the F7F retracts which will cost almost twice that of the plane. Heard the ESM will not hold up for this 23lb. plane.

If I don't spend it now, they'll just have more to fight over after I'm gone, so Sierra is the winner. Darrell is a winner anyway.

Dick

Whistling Death

I would let my wallet be the deciding factor. If you just can't stomach the price for the Sierra retracts then you should get the ESM gear.
I have seen enough bad press on the ESM gear so I bit the bullet and got Sierras for my plane.

oldtimer4759

I like your attitude pilotchute, re spend it now,

here is a link to another thread, with a few more retract suppliers on it, Sierras are still top bill, but the $$$ have to be considered by a lot of us,

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10140679/tm.htm

cheers, Oldtimer.