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A few questions from a new guy

Old 12-19-2010, 06:51 PM
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e9coupeguy
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Default A few questions from a new guy

ok. First off, hello to everyone

New to the hobby and excited to be part of the community.I've been lurking around here for a while trying to learn as much as possible prior to making the plunge. Well, the 'plunge' came a little sooner than anticipated when i came across a 'deal i couldn't refuse' - at least i hope thats the case :-). Just picked up an esm p-51b, pre-owned rtf from a shop on ebay. See ad below. I called ahead and confirmed that everything was as advertised and was informed that although the ad states 'lightly flown', it actually hasn't seen the air yet. For that price, i figure that even if i get it and find that its damaged or was crashed at some point, the equipment in it alone is worth the $485 price tag. The dilema i have now is that i havent flown in almost 20 years and have never flown a tail dragger. I started in the hobby as a teen when i lived in germany, flying a 48" cessna type, high wing plane (not electric). Flew for about 2 years before my dad got orders to move back to the states where i 've been since. I wanted to continue flying here but started college and i never got back into it. So... i know my way around rc flight (4 channel) and was pretty comfortable before i stopped. No problems landing, taking off, performing basic maneuvers, etc. So i wouldn't consider myself new, however, i know enough about flying to understand the differences between high winged craft and the warbirds and that the tail draggers are a completely different breed. So i guess i'm looking for advice on the best way to get back into the swing of things given the fact that the craft i'll be moving to will be the p-51b. I've logged a good amount of time on simulators and plan to log a ton more. In my post purchase excitement, I went ahead and picked up the Hitec Aurora9, so the transmitter is out of the way. Would it be advisable to go ahead and purchase a basic trainer? Should i look at something like Hangar 9's P51 pts (or plane only equivalent)? Given my previous flight experience, do you think flying the p-51b via trainer and buddy box would be advisable? Sorry if these questions sound dumb. I just dont want to be the 'new' guy with the nice plane who dumps it 5 minutes into the flight because he underestimated the task. I also dont wanna sell my skills short and invest money into a craft i'll end up parking after a dozen flights because its too easy. Are there any rtf warbirds 'beginner - intermediate' i should be looking into?


Also, I've been perusing the few threads dedicated to the esm / kmp p-51b and have taken away some valuable info regarding weak points, innacurately documented CG, etc. Wanted to ask if there is anything in particular i should be looking for during an inspection to assure everything is as it should be (hopefully someone who owns this plane can chime in). I would also be interested in any opinions on the flight characteristics of the plane. I've read through a few posts on initial test flights and i've watched every video on it (all 3 of them :-)) on youtube about 10 times each... just looking for a little more input so that i know what i can expect.

Thanks in advance!

richard

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_1200wt_905








Old 12-19-2010, 07:03 PM
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scooterinvegas
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Looks to be a very nice plane, but you should start off back at the basic's. Buy or build a trainer, join a club and master the trainer before you fly the P-51. Good luck, and keep us informed. Scoot
Old 12-20-2010, 02:53 AM
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91zulu
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

First. don`t be fooled by a flight sim, its not the same as doing it for real. Totally different the feel and everything else, no matter how good a sim. Now a sim do help in some areas, but the best thing to do is get you a low wing plane like a Tiger 2, Sig Kougar, Ultra Sport or something like those to get your skills back up along with your reflexes. You may be past the beginning stage but not quite at warbird level. Now some warbirds are easier to fly than others. I flew a few P51s large and small to know you definitely got to be in the zone where you control more by reflex action and not have to think first before you make an input. Very high chance you will end up crashing.
So a good low wing, slightly on the heavy side and fast, you don`t want it being light like cork because that`s not good either. Warbirds quite often end up with high wing loading and you need to know how a heavy plane feel from taxing, take off , during the flight and especially when come time to land, you screw up there and you WILL CRASH.
Get you some low wing stick time then make your move with some help.
Old 12-20-2010, 03:41 AM
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carlbecker
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

IMHO you would be doing yourself a favor by joining a club, getting a high wing trainer and get very comfprtable with it. Once that is done get your self a low wing tail dragger sport plane and get comfortable with it. I don't know about your P-51 and have never flown a P-51 but I have a few warbirds, pretty much all I have and each flies a bit differently. Most have a heavier wing loading and require a bit more skill flying. Warbirds are not a good starting point and with a 20 year break you are closer to starting then an accomplished pilot. Glad to have you as a member of the hobby!
Old 12-20-2010, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

I had a 15 year layoff from RC. Previously I had a ARF P-40 with a 90 FS and a Top Flight Corsair with a YS 120. So I already had some warbird experience. When I got back into RC after the long break I started off with the Flight Sim and then a little cub park flyer. Then an 60 size Extra 300 from Graupner. Then a VQ Hurricane with a 91 FS. At first that Hurricane was a hand full but ok now. I now have a couple of 71" wing span warbirds with gas engines. A KMP/ESM Hurricane and a CMP Zero. I also have a Top Flight Mustang ARF. Don't start off again with the ESM Mustang. Keep in mind that on every take off you will need to keep it straight and with gradual climb out until good flying speed is obtained. These larger models take longer to accelate. Also every landing needs to be good with some power almost to the ground or you will damage the gear, gear mounting, wing or worst. Get a low wing tail wheel aerobactic or sports plane and fly it until you can do straight smooth take offs with gradual climb outs and do consistant good wheel landing and three points. Join a club and get some one with RC warbird experience help set up and test fly and trim the Mustang. Then fly the Mustang.
Old 12-20-2010, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Welcome aboard!

The above advice is solid. Join a club and find an instructor that has the same interest. I had a three year break due to Iraq and when I got back the world changed due to the 2.4 MHZ transmitters and receivers/batteries and technology in general. If you are going to go gas, read up on everything you can, there is a good thread here called "newbie to gas", do a search and learn what you can. I have a giant stinger with a G62 that I used to get back into the swing of things and I am still amazed at the technology. Keep it simple and you will be rewarded. Best of Luck. If you have questions you will get one hundred different opinions, some good, some not so good. What works for one application may not be the best for yours and vice versa.
Old 12-20-2010, 02:13 PM
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e9coupeguy
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy



thanks for all of the helpful input. To update the situation, i think i may have lucked out in thatthe owner of the shop that sold me the p51had another plane, a low wing sport trainer, that he was selling that he offered me on the cheap as a sort of package offer. Its a fuel and go deal, slightly used, already assembled with servos, receiver, etc. installed. For $100, i figure it wouldnt hurt to give it a go. Cant tell who the manufacturer is... anyone have an idea? Thoughts? I think ilike the idea because its a low wing design and although not the weight or dimension of the larger warbird, it will share some of the same characteristics.

link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...7mKcKkohg%253D

Old 12-20-2010, 02:16 PM
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e9coupeguy
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Also want to say that i will definitley be joining one of the local clubs and working with a trainer for a few months. Solid advice! Will also be filling out the AMAform tonight. Exciting times!
Old 12-20-2010, 02:27 PM
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Moggy
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Try to fly something that is the same set up and size as your warbird. If it's a gasser try to start with a gasser because they are very different from glow. Large planes are more stable and easier to see so your transition to your warbird will not be such a dramatic one. Best.
Old 12-20-2010, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy



IMHO, trainers teach one nothing on flying a warbird. totally different flight characteristics. flying at the field with
experianced flyers w/ a buddy box is the way to go. just my 2 cents.

Old 12-20-2010, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

I agree.War birds are different and even though most are sport stand off they still carry the same [almost] problems as the full scale plane.Yes there are a few pilots that say they went from a trainer to a war bird,,,, but,,,!Take your time.Tom
Old 12-20-2010, 10:52 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

I went from a Great planes PT 20 trainer to a Jemco AT6 and it kick my butt. Bad Idea. You would`nt last 10 seconds going that route that's why I suggest a low wing sport plane. Joining a club is a very good idea and I forgot to mention about the sport plane being a tail dagger so you can learn how to handle them on the ground. Warbirds especially can be tricky and you don`t want to mess up on a take off run either. Can get ugly quick. You need small inputs to keep it tracking straight and knowing how much only comes with experience.
Another good reason to join a club is that if you are lucky you get to meet people with the same interest as you and ready to help you. Now I say lucky because some clubs you meet folks that don`t want to help. They make excuses why they cant help or they just keep passing you off to other club members. And no one bet not say that's not true because it is. So just go to the field one weekend and see who flies warbirds and approach them see what vibe you get. If its good maybe you can invite the person to your home and have him check everything over for you and give you pointers. That`s how I did it and as a result gain a best fiend. We build together, loan and give each other from radios to engines, servos you name it. Even go to shows together. Meeting a good flying buddy is priceless.
Old 12-20-2010, 11:03 PM
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91zulu
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

This is us at the field with a Bud Nosen P51 and at Warbirds over Connecticut
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:31 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

91-zulu , great looking bud nosen p-51!!! New Guy, Take heed to the advice given,
your going to need to work up to your P-51, or you could be taking it home in a
couple of garbage bags after your first attempt at flying it by yourself. I would
definitly suggest joininga cluband have only the most experienced warbird pilot
do the initial flights and once it's trimmed out and flying right, get you on a buddy
box with it. Your definitely on the right track and once youget there you'll find the
P-51 is one the best flying warbirds bar none! Good Luck!!


~Jon~
Old 12-20-2010, 11:59 PM
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Experten109/40
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Zulu,
you mentioned that sims were "not the same as the real thing".. I think there are a number of USAF/ NAVY/ NASApilots that would
disagree with you
Old 12-21-2010, 04:05 AM
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carlbecker
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

For me sims are not the same as flying. I learned to fly before I got a sim. I use the sim in winter to keep the rust off. I do think sims are great and can help while learning. I have seen a few new pilots that learned on a sim and they progressed very fast. Of course I don't know how fast they would have gone without the sim first.

Warbirds is a big open catagory. The same plane from different companies can have very different flight charactistics, some good some bad.
Old 12-21-2010, 08:55 AM
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Experten109/40
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

funny story,

I play games like IL2 anf Fighter ace alot. about 5 years ago I went flying with my cousin (he's a pilot)
in some sort of a Censna. then he gave me the question I was waiting for.. " wanna fly this thing?"
thinking this was probably ilegal I naturally said you betcha. let me tell you, to me anyways.. there was
no difference then when I fly in my games. minus the barrel rolls and loops of course lol. never flew a
real plane before. he said I handled it like a pro. was fun. your results may vary lol.
Old 12-21-2010, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Yep, manipulating an aircraft is lot easier when your in it, vs. standing
on the ground and flying from itafar. Especially when you know how
the controls affect the aircraft. Put a couple of little sticks on the yoke
so we could fly one using just our thumbs, we could be ace pilots!

I flew r/c before I flew real airplanes, it was my feet that a tough time
transitioning to rudder pedals instead of using myleft thumb!
So I agree, simulators definitely help! whether for r/c or full size!


~Jon~
Old 12-21-2010, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Most clubs are a waste of time unless they have a dedicated training program for beginners. This means that you will be assigned an instructor not instructors. I have belonged to numerous clubs throughout the USA and find them nothing more than a social event or gathering. What a club may or may not provide you with is a place to fly that you will have to pay for. The club I belong to now is just a bunch of guys who meet on Saturday to gossip and occassionally fly there little electric models. I joined them to use there field.
You got a deal of a life time on your purchase but put it away for now. Learn how to fly your trainer first. As others have said warbirds are a different breed and require a different set of flying skills. They usually have a high wing loading and not are forgiving due to pilot error. I just started flying warbirds myself and lost two. The first due to pilot error on landing and the second one experienced total power failure while airborne. I'm on my third now and have only experienced landing gear problems, pneumatics of course. The bug has caught me and I'm in the process of building another that should be airborne in January.
As I have stated most clubs are worthless. Find a club where others fly warbirds and 3D machines and find an individual who will mentor you.
Old 12-21-2010, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

oh yah, don't fly a scale WarBird like an edge/acro/3D plane. they don't like that. also, watch out
for hi-speed stalls, especially in a turn.
Old 12-21-2010, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy


ORIGINAL: scooterinvegas

Looks to be a very nice plane, but you should start off back at the basic's. Buy or build a trainer, join a club and master the trainer before you fly the P-51. Good luck, and keep us informed. Scoot
I would agree. starting off with a warbird might be a quick end to hobby. Now if you want a warbird you can go the route i did.

http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Def...ProdID=HAN4425

I learned on the first one that came out. I only know of one other guy who did this. Myself and G-Pete. We both had the same instructor and by the way he didn’t like us learning on this bird, but we did and i started flight training in January and Soloed in the last part of February. I know it can be done on this bird.

However i must warn you this may be the start of endless hours of sanding, filing, and obsessing over detail that no one will see but you.

Old 12-21-2010, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

simulater, simulater, SIMULATER.
 Also,.. on take off,.. roll the throttle on slowly untill the tail comes up, then go ahead and throttle all the way up.
 GOOD luck keep us posted
Old 12-21-2010, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy



Buy a low-wing tail draggerto practice with until your confidence and skills are up-to-par with what's required for a P-51. I have a Pulse XT40 from Hangar 9 that's great- low wing, decent size, and flies almost like a trainer but not. My take-offs and landings are now looking pretty scale-like which is great and I have the thumb/finger skills that I'll need to get a P-51 off the ground and more importantly back on the ground in one piece. That P-51 you got is WAYnice to crash and burn within the first few minutes of your first flight. Put her in the hangar for now, and practice with a low wing taildragger tobuildup your skills and confidence.

I'm looking for a P-51 myself now and have been eye-balling the Hangar9P-51 Blue Nose for some time. Best of luck with your plane! She's a beauty!

Old 12-21-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy


ORIGINAL: P-40K-5

Zulu,
you mentioned that sims were ''not the same as the real thing''.. I think there are a number of USAF/ NAVY/ NASA pilots that would
disagree with you
They should disagree, they get to play with the good stuff that we can`t even get close to. They have million dollar sims to play with it better be as good as the planes they will be flying. For us though our sims have a few short comings. Its good only up to certain point then the learning curve goes flat. I could remember the endless hours I spent on Realflt. G2. It was good for a bit then it became more like a game. Trust me from the time you get to the field and unload your stuff, you realize this is no longer the sim this is real. If I screw up there is no pressing the reset button. I can`t tell you how many times I get to the field , winds calm but by the time I crank up the engine it starts to blow all over the place. I taxi out and its gusting. I do`nt about you folks but I never had the same 2 take off or landing no matter the conditions in 20 years. A lot of things can change in an instant while you are flying.
Old 12-21-2010, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: A few questions from a new guy

Your assessment of the current state of RC simulators is way off. There has been a lot of progress made between Real Flight G2 and the current version G5.5. The wind is variable now. You can set a model up to fly exactly as you want it to. Every flight simulator on the market has improved substantially in the last ten years as have the computers they run on.

For every hour of flight time you get at the field, I can probably fly five in the simulator. While I have almost zero chance of influencing you, others should consider the simulator as the preferred start-up method when learning to fly.

You have to take the sim seriously, and practice your takeoffs and landings and not get involved in the war games. However, any flying is better than watching TV.



ORIGINAL: 91zulu


ORIGINAL: P-40K-5

Zulu,
you mentioned that sims were ''not the same as the real thing''.. I think there are a number of USAF/ NAVY/ NASA pilots that would
disagree with you
They should disagree, they get to play with the good stuff that we can`t even get close to. They have million dollar sims to play with it better be as good as the planes they will be flying. For us though our sims have a few short comings. Its good only up to certain point then the learning curve goes flat. I could remember the endless hours I spent on Realflt. G2. It was good for a bit then it became more like a game. Trust me from the time you get to the field and unload your stuff, you realize this is no longer the sim this is real. If I screw up there is no pressing the reset button. I can`t tell you how many times I get to the field , winds calm but by the time I crank up the engine it starts to blow all over the place. I taxi out and its gusting. I do`nt about you folks but I never had the same 2 take off or landing no matter the conditions in 20 years. A lot of things can change in an instant while you are flying.

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