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Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

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Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Old 01-22-2011, 08:53 AM
  #26  
STUKA BARRY
 
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?


ORIGINAL: Experten109/40


ORIGINAL: exfed

Ed. Remember, cars have tow-in and not tow-out for a good reason. Tow-in contributes to straight-ahead stability. It also causes the steering to try to center when turning.
ok, again not all cars are toed-in. when you start getting into the high performance, exotic, handle like its on
rails machines, you'll notice that they are mostly going toe-out.

they give up some tire wear & economy for that. also, they have no problems going in a straight line, and in
fact are more stable in straight line hi-speed runs.

This is a fact, I'm doing great to get 15,000 miles out of very, very expensive tires on my Porsche, especially on the race track...
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Ed, toe in is always good. On my Zerioli Corsair I had 5 degrees of play in the wheels (that’s each). So I set the toe in at 6 degrees to always give me a toe in. while it will make the plane more manageable I don’t think it is your problem. I think you may be the victim of rudder and tail wheel out of sink. I normally fly off grass but would go to contests on pavement. First noticed this on a P-47, when it would transition from tale down to flying of visa versa it would veer hard enough that I would over correct, ugly. The solution is next time out turn the radio on push the plane down the runway then move the tail wheel so that it tracks straight by adjusting the rudder to tail wheel linkage. That should calm it down along with toe-in.

Joe
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:40 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?


ORIGINAL: paladin

Ed, toe in is always good. On my Zerioli Corsair I had 5 degrees of play in the wheels (that’s each). So I set the toe in at 6 degrees to always give me a toe in. while it will make the plane more manageable I don’t think it is your problem. I think you may be the victim of rudder and tail wheel out of sink. I normally fly off grass but would go to contests on pavement. First noticed this on a P-47, when it would transition from tale down to flying of visa versa it would veer hard enough that I would over correct, ugly. The solution is next time out turn the radio on push the plane down the runway then move the tail wheel so that it tracks straight by adjusting the rudder to tail wheel linkage. That should calm it down along with toe-in.

Joe
I'm assuming (we all know about that) that the tail wheel has'nt hit the ground yet when he's landing and having difficulty. If the plane is taxiing out to the runway fine, and running full throttle down the runway fine, can we assume the tailwheel is properly inline with the rudder?
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:27 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

In my asphalt days: i noted that hard surfaces and asphalt runways really "bite" when you use the rudder. This was mostly noticable on takeoffs in my great lakes biplane .60 size.

But since your actually having landing roll out issues ,I'm leaning toward using the rudder as critical. Agee with all to land wheels first and let the speed bleedoff until tail wheel hits. Agree that you need to check tailwheel lineup with rudder.

Another trick for taildraggers is to have the port wheel (left side) toed-in 3 degrees and the starbord (right) wheel run straight. That way the torque effect is offset somewhat by the port wheel pushing the aircraft back towads the centerline. However right rudder is a must on any warbird big or small anytime you are on he runway roll.

All my 88" size or larger warbirds have 2-5 degrees of toe-in on both wheels. I fly off grass now. it is very forgiving and actually lets the wheels slide a little across the blades.
r,
Mike P
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:05 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Barry, when I taxi out I hold R to track straight weather it needs it or not without thinking about it. I have to take a step back to realize the tw and R are not where they want to be for pavement or the transition will tell me. And this sounds like that could be the issue.

Joe
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:30 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Someone earlier suggested a gyro on rudder to solve such a problem. Is this a good solution to prevent ground looping, and wing tip dragging ? Can they really react fast enough ?

Ed
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Guys,

check out post #3 from this forum. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8293573/tm.htm the thread title is "CMP F4U Corsair 50 Build Log"

A guy in Greece put his corsair against his building table edge to check the toe in alignment. So easy even a caveman could do it.
You will understand when you see the pictures. I copied from his post here.

edit: they do not enlarge like on his post.

You can never stop learning from others.
Attached Images   
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Gyros are much faster than you are and work great...actually too well, you'll have difficult time flying the plane in normal flight with an active gyro on the rudder.

The toe in amount is likely not the problem. Again I would say just get used to using the left stick. Rudder is definitely your friend; especially on a warbird.

The Stuka's tendency to start swerving and then ground looping is probably due to your line up during a cross wind landing and subsequent need to "react" to what happens.

When you line up on your landing approach with a bit of X-wind, I would bet that the centerline (nose to tail) is actually at an angle relative to the "flight track" and the runway centerline. Therefore when you touch down, especially on a wheel landing, the plane is actually traveling at an angle across the wheels. The plane then immediately tries to correct and roll out straight but inertia keeps the tail swinging around and results in a ground loop.

When you land in a cross wind one wing (and gear leg) is higher than the other due to "slipping" in order to "track" straight down the runway while "heading" straight down the runway at the same time. Once the low wheel touches down it begins to create some drag. opposite rudder is immediately req. Then the other gear touches and the previously req rudder is relieved. All the while you are also correcting for the wind trying to push the tail around as well. once the tail drops this all becomes much easier since the tailwheel has more authority than the rudder.

Keep flying and all of this will become automatic. "three point" landings will help immensely too. Wheel landings and 3 pointers each have their own +'s and -'s but I prefer wheel landings.

Happy Flying!
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?


ORIGINAL: FireBee

Guys,

check out post #3 from this forum. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8293573/tm.htm the thread title is ''CMP F4U Corsair 50 Build Log''

A guy in Greece put his corsair against his building table edge to check the toe in alignment. So easy even a caveman could do it.
You will understand when you see the pictures. I copied from his post here.

edit: they do not enlarge like on his post.

You can never stop learning from others.
That is a GREAT tip/technique!!! Thanks for passing that along!
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:25 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Ed
Lets look at it another way. Do you have aileron/rudder mixing for take off and landing. If you do, try it. Its all what works for you.
Thanks
Leroy
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:45 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

WHY ? What will A/R Mixing do for me ?

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Old 01-22-2011, 11:21 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Nothing else seems to work. Mabe its something else were not looking at like A/R mixing. just a thoutht.
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:20 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Not sure about this model Ed but I do know that full sized Spitfires had their 'toe in' reduced in later marques as more paved runways were made available. Made ground handling better.
This is not my interpretation but a documented Spitty fact.
Good luck with it.

Brad
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:15 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Is toe-in good to have on a Ziroli Stuka used on asphalt ?

Key is to keep the tail up until it quits flying, by then you will have reduced enough airspeed that the "wobbles" should be dramatically lessened. I had to learn this lesson on my Avenger. Another option is to slow to a 3 point. Again, by then you have bled off most speed. Persoanlly, I do not agree with toe-in or toe-out on these light weight models. I think rudder and bleeding speed it the key. If the tails settles to the ground with much speed, most all tail dragger warbirds will ground loop unless you have quick solid rudder/tailwheel control. Even then I have found you lose most times. That is my experience anyway.

Jeff
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