Notices
RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

ESM FW D-9

Old 09-17-2012, 09:38 AM
  #1601  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Plane at the field for maiden attempt. Wind was out of the north at about 9-10mph. Not ideal for me as Im mostly used to left to right take offs as thats the normal wind pattern. Since its a maiden and not a cheap airplane, I walked across the runway and took off from left to right to eliminate any blonde moments LOL.

The plane, with the 65cc rimfire and 21x14 prop took off rather quickly. It didnt stay on the mains long at all and I didnt mash the throttle. In fact it probably left the runway when i was only at 1/3 throttle. Once airborne and gaining speed, I flew the entore flight at around 1/2 to 5/8s throttle position. I asked my assistant what the throttle position was and he said 5/8's when I was flying around doing oval circuits. This thing was flying at about the same speed a 50cc gas plane would be doing at full throttle.

I did not attempt a full throttle pass. I also didnt retract the gear. I wanted the fewest things to think about. That being said, once in the air, she's easy to fly and didnt seem to have any bad habits at all. I had the ailerons set at 75% on low rates and that was a bit much, even with 50% expo. Ive toned that down since to 60% for low rates on aileron.

The only trim needed was a few clicks of elevator, but not much at all.

Landing...well....even with a 10mph head wind, it doesnt want to slow down and floats forever. It probably weighs right around 24 pounds so it doesnt feel light on the ground, but it was definitely light in the air.

IOn final, I cut the motor well before the runway threshhold(and this while previously only starting out at 1/3 throttle on the decent). Ot probably floated past the threshold and then some for a good 400+ feet with me only needing to manage the elevator. AND I WAS STILL too fast. When the mains touched, it wanted to bounce and continuing flying. When i say she flies LIGHT, I mean it.

I only had half flaps on and didnt need them whatsoever. Only used half flaps because on the final decent, the wind stopped for a bit.

Anyway....first attempt, she bounced a few times and I throttled up and went around for a slower approach.

Same thing the 2nd time(still half flaps) and she bounced a few times but i was able to keep her from wanting to go airborne again with the elevator and got her down ok. I think from now on, I wont use flaps unless theres no wind at all.

Hell with as light as she flies, I could pack 2 sets of 12s 6000 in there and it'd still fly unhindered.

Vertical G's Pica/Platt 190 d9 for size comparison on the left. Its a 63" or so size.

Meed to now add in the unit and plane markings as well as weather it
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Wt59329.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	131.4 KB
ID:	1802041   Click image for larger version

Name:	Yt62327.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	104.4 KB
ID:	1802042   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kp34673.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	128.3 KB
ID:	1802043  
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #1602  
Ramstein44
My Feedback: (157)
 
Ramstein44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 2,124
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Congrats Kahlog. I found with the few flight I have on mine that a higher approach with full flaps and idled out, assisted me better with the floating issue. My first flight, I came in with the typical approach with power on and chopping just at the runway and she floated right down the runway. I have to admit, they like to fly.
Ramstein44 is offline  
Old 09-17-2012, 01:42 PM
  #1603  
kwik
 
kwik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: kongsberg, NORWAY
Posts: 1,338
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: Ramstein44
Congrats Kahlog.
+1, and, nice paintjob, both of you!

Ticketec, if you visit here; Do you have close up photo of your original XYZ ignition?

There are discussions on how it might be labeled. RcExl ?
kwik is offline  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:52 PM
  #1604  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,206
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Thanks Kwik. I am hoping to use the exact same scheme I have on the little Pica, on my big Holman D9 I got from Ram earlier this year. It will be a little more accurate as I want it for competition. I have been having lots of fun with the airbrush since I figured it out.
Kahloq's will probably get some more work, as soon as he coughs up a pilot for my Mig 3! I need one as I am scrambling to get it flying for the warbirds over the rockies. This is the scheme I want on her.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Fc90510.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	18.2 KB
ID:	1802213  
vertical grimmace is offline  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:57 AM
  #1605  
ticketec
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,772
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: kwik

ORIGINAL: Ramstein44
Congrats Kahlog.
+1, and, nice paintjob, both of you!

Ticketec, if you visit here; Do you have close up photo of your original XYZ ignition?

There are discussions on how it might be labeled. RcExl ?
Hey Kiwk,

Just when through my pic's and I have none of ignition module[] It's a bit of a pain to get to as it's mounted where the full sized engine is and I have to remove the cowl to get enough slack in the ignition leads to pull it out a little.

Sorry.

Dave
ticketec is offline  
Old 09-18-2012, 03:44 AM
  #1606  
kwik
 
kwik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: kongsberg, NORWAY
Posts: 1,338
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Was it RcExl ?
kwik is offline  
Old 09-18-2012, 04:39 PM
  #1607  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Ok...been messin with the cockpit kit. But, even after following the exact dimensions and measurements given in TY's youtube instructions, the cockpit is just too deep. The pull-pull wires for all of the controls are in the way somewhat, so the cockpit wont sit in there. So....like other things Ive done on this plane, Im going to have to hack up the cockpit kit to make it work to some degree. The easiest thing I can think of to do would be cut the floor out of the kit and make one a bit higher up the sides of the cockpit sides. I'd then need to also NOT use the seat box mount and directly glue the chair to the revised cockpit floor otherwise the pilot's head may touch the top of the canopy.

Kinda upset about this as the cockpit kit is supposed to fit this plane, but my ribs/formers MAY be slightly different as to where the guide tubes were glued in relative to the elevator/rudder lines. I dont know, but the floor of the kit currently wont work
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-19-2012, 02:13 AM
  #1608  
ticketec
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,772
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: kahloq

Kinda upset about this as the cockpit kit is supposed to fit this plane, but my ribs/formers MAY be slightly different as to where the guide tubes were glued in relative to the elevator/rudder lines. I dont know, but the floor of the kit currently wont work
No, mine did the same thing. I looked at it for a while and in the end, installed some plastic guide tubes on the floor of the cockpit for the wires to slide through. There is only just a little bit of contact. It's been fine so far with 40 odd flights on her now.



Regards

Dave
ticketec is offline  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:28 AM
  #1609  
Ramstein44
My Feedback: (157)
 
Ramstein44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 2,124
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I've learned that Ty's cockpits have to be installed first and then worked around. I ended up changing my entire setup due to the dept issues prior. A friend of mine built the ESM stuka and couldn't use the cockpit in his for these reasons. Looking at most of Ty's builds, they're created without installing any of the electronics so they look great but require modifications for the electronics to work for the builder. Ty's cockpits are awesome but you have to install them first and knowing this, I was a little concerned when everyone was going through the steps to to fly these without its instillation.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf98408.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	88.7 KB
ID:	1802761   Click image for larger version

Name:	Je99710.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	61.2 KB
ID:	1802762  
Ramstein44 is offline  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:34 AM
  #1610  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,206
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

So it seems the cockpit needs to be co-ordinated with the radio install? Maybe done at the same time? Not really sure all of this stuff can be expected to be fully plug and play. A little tweaking should almost always be expected. Maybe this is the beauty of scratch building. You have to do everything yourself, so planning for these types of things is already in your head.
vertical grimmace is offline  
Old 09-19-2012, 01:44 PM
  #1611  
STICK MODE
Senior Member
 
STICK MODE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BLENHEIM Malbourough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 276
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Like Ram I have found that it’s best to fit the cockpits first and work around them,
I also see that Ram has lifted the servos with wood I do the same thing, from memory I used 3/8 square across the fuselage both front and rear of the servos this lifted the servos enough that the wires cleared the bottom of the cockpit floor.
The rear cross member where the wires enter I also removed and built a new one moving it a wee bit towards the bottom of the fuselage the plastic rods I removed as in my kit they where cracked and really serve no purpose I felt happier having straight runs of pull pull on all my wires . TY do make great cockpit kits but some for site is required in fitting them as a builder cheers.
STICK MODE is offline  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:02 PM
  #1612  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I ended up cutting 1/2" worth out of each side of the cockpit kit to get the clearance. I covered the seem with aluminum foil tape and then repainted it. Im not going to modify the linkages etc for a cockpit kit....I'll mod the kit to make it fit since the plane has been test flown and changing positions of stuff now might cause more headaches.

I thought about lifting the servos with some wood, but then you also miht run the risk of the servo arms being hung up on the wing skin surface with the wing attached.
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:47 PM
  #1613  
STICK MODE
Senior Member
 
STICK MODE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BLENHEIM Malbourough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 276
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

½ an inch was what I cut out of the sides might have been a tad more think you’re going about it the right way nothing worst then doing big modes to a plane that’s flying and proven. I note you left of the gun bubbles on the wing I did the same best of luck with the fit cheers
STICK MODE is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 10:41 PM
  #1614  
Velco
Senior Member
 
Velco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Belgrade, SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA
Posts: 274
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: kahloq

The plane, with the 65cc rimfire and 21x14 prop took off rather quickly. It didnt stay on the mains long at all and I didnt mash the throttle. In fact it probably left the runway when i was only at 1/3 throttle. Once airborne and gaining speed, I flew the entore flight at around 1/2 to 5/8s throttle position. I asked my assistant what the throttle position was and he said 5/8's when I was flying around doing oval circuits. This thing was flying at about the same speed a 50cc gas plane would be doing at full throttle.

First of all congrats on the successful maiden, and sorry for my late reply, RL is really a pain. I am happy to hear that the plane is flying exactly as I was hoping for it to fly on that combo, 5/8 is also my preffered throttle stick position, that is how I set all of my planes. You will have all the neccesary reserve for any manoeuvre. Looking forward to hear about the 20x14 3blade.

If the plane has a problem on landing because it feels very light try setting the flaps more as brakes rather than flaps, an angle of 75-80 degrees is needed for that. It will help the plane slow down very much, you just have to be carafull with the speed. Experiment at the higher altitude.

cheers,

Velco
Velco is offline  
Old 09-23-2012, 08:02 PM
  #1615  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Adding the cockpit kit and pilot necessitated adding 9oz of lead up in the nose to keep the balance at 155mm
The 23x12 flew the plane fine, but the speed was much slower. However, flight time would be better. 5 mins and I only put 2900mah back into each 6000mah battery.

It still bounced badly on landing and this time, the right gear caught on something and came out of the plane and pulled a few ribs with it so there's some damage. It will NOT be fixed by Warbirds over the Rockies and Im rather bummed out about that.
This is the only plane Ive ever had that exhibited this nasty bouncy behavior and it doesnt seem like everyone else is seeing this happen, so Im not sure why mine is. Ive got and flown heavy and light warbirds and none of them have done this...even other dora9's.

If someone had a spare wing, i could get the plane up in a day or so though.
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:27 PM
  #1616  
STICK MODE
Senior Member
 
STICK MODE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BLENHEIM Malbourough, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 276
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Velco talked about using the flaps I find if I use all the flap full down it slows the Fw down 75 to 80 degs it slows it very fast to the point power is required to drag her in ive personally never had a issue with bouncing but have always used full flap having said that I bet the next landing I do will be a right mess Murphy’s law [:-]sorry to hear about the wing.
yeh I would be bummed right out over that [>:]
STICK MODE is offline  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:10 PM
  #1617  
Velco
Senior Member
 
Velco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Belgrade, SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA
Posts: 274
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: STICK MODE

Velco talked about using the flaps I find if I use all the flap full down it slows the Fw down 75 to 80 degs it slows it very fast to the point power is required to drag her in ive personally never had a issue with bouncing but have always used full flap having said that I bet the next landing I do will be a right mess Murphy’s law [:-]sorry to hear about the wing.
yeh I would be bummed right out over that [>:]
Stick that is exactly the point because once the power is needed to fly the plane level on full flaps it means we are in control so, in theory, it should be easier.

@ Kahlog sorry to hear about the wing. As you said your CG is at 155mm, how does she feel inverted, neutral or you have to pushe the stick? I am asking this because sometimes plane bouncing on landing is tail heavy. May be you try moving the CG 15-20mm forward.

Velco
Velco is offline  
Old 09-24-2012, 10:49 AM
  #1618  
Ramstein44
My Feedback: (157)
 
Ramstein44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 2,124
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Kahlog, sorry to hear this. I agree that the bouncing issue isn't common to the FW190's I've flown and have only see this when the speed was too low or it was just at a stall on touchdown. I've always come in with full flaps and power, touch on the mains and let her settle on her own. Very rarely three point a FW190...would be nice though
Ramstein44 is offline  
Old 09-24-2012, 12:55 PM
  #1619  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I wasn't trying to 3 point it. Any wheel touch to pavement caused the plane to bounce badly. However, I was using half flaps. Ive never had a plane react this way. My smaller Graupner D9 lands with ease, regardless of the flap setting...it plants on the mains and rolls out to settle the tail with no issue.

I never had a chance to fly the plane inverted. It was only its 2nd flight and was still trying to get comfortable.
I do think that maybe its on the verge of tail heavy, but, it flied so easily with little elevator trim, it seems fine in the air. The slower the plane goes though, it does seem to want to raise the nose some.

Here's a pic of the weight I added after the cockpit kit. You'd think I would be nose heavy and not have any issues with a bounce, but its not nose heavy at all.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Wu61544.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	94.0 KB
ID:	1804555  
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-24-2012, 12:58 PM
  #1620  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Here's a couple pics before the flight so you can see what she looked like. Ive contacted Tomas at VQ to inquire about getting a new wing. The current one is salvagable, but, Id like to have another wing and try to really beef up the landing gear area and further out.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Sq46588.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	201.7 KB
ID:	1804556   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hd94604.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	200.3 KB
ID:	1804557  
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-24-2012, 01:43 PM
  #1621  
Ramstein44
My Feedback: (157)
 
Ramstein44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 2,124
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Yup, that weight looks about right.
Ramstein44 is offline  
Old 09-24-2012, 02:34 PM
  #1622  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Think I will also move CG forward to 140 or so instead of 155. After seeing MY plane's tendency to bounce soo much, Id rather have a plane that wants to possibly nose over then one that wants to shoot the nose up on a slight wheel touch on the runway. Even if I nose over, im only going to kill the prop and possibly scuff up the cowl instead of ripping stuff out. Because the gear is canted pretty forward, I think the nose heaviness I'll put on will prevent the spring action effect from the canted oleo legs back into the air...regardless of flap setting.
Basically, Im used to heavy planes and also used to nose heavy planes. This neutral CG currently on my D9 seems to be giving me fits LOL!!!!
kahloq is offline  
Old 09-24-2012, 08:53 PM
  #1623  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,206
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Dang, and I was hoping to shoot you down with the new Mig 3. Bummer. Well, I guess you still have the ME 110! Looks like I am gonna make it. If it were not for the last minute, nothing would get done.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Om33380.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	59.8 KB
ID:	1804701  
vertical grimmace is offline  
Old 11-07-2012, 06:56 PM
  #1624  
Asanders
Senior Member
 
Asanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sandy, UT
Posts: 561
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I just ordered one of these and was wondering if a spinner comes with it or do I need to order one? Also ordered the Gen 3 electrics, hope they work well!
Asanders is offline  
Old 11-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #1625  
kahloq
 
kahloq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 4,295
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ESM FW D-9

The kit does NOT come with a spinner. As far as ordering one...it depends on what you want. If a two blade...sdshobbies has a very nice aluminum one with excellent backplate for next to nothing for a plane this size. You want the 4.5". I have this one on mine. If you want 3 blade, then maybe troybuilt has the ESM one or you can source a Gene Barton one that you cut the prop locations yourself. Precisioncutkits usually has them.
kahloq is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.