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Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

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Old 04-03-2011, 08:27 PM
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Default Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

This is my first thread. hope I don't mess it up!
Purchased a Byron P-51 one piece wing back in 1985 the year my son was born. He's 26 now, Byron is gone. Iron Bay has the moldsand doesn't appear to care about the model industry, so I'm protecting my investment. Models will eventually rekit themselves. Pilot error or what ever excuse seems to fit the occasion. Anyway I am going to clone this B____. I am not a fan of foam, so I am enlarging Brian Taylor plans to build up the wing and tail feathers.
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:38 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone



1st I took the Byron P-51 fuselge and laid it on a piece or shelf board and traced its outline. see attached.

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Old 04-03-2011, 08:43 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Next: I cut out the fuselage form from the shelf board and suspended the fuselage in the shef board using 2-56 bolts and nuts at the parting line. see attached
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Next step: modeling clay to blend the fuselage with the parting board.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:09 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Next: A good parting agent:: Mothers carnuba wax was applied to the fuselage and parting line surface and my first attempt at a hard tool epoxy I tried Bondo brand Metal Fill. Fiberglassed over using Bondo brand fiberglass resin and cloth. three layers. Fumes were hurendas. Later read MSDS ( Material Safety Data Sheet) that Bondo brand Polyester resin fumes over time will cause health problems with the liver.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Laid up the other side using plane Bondo polyester resin gell coat and layers for the mold. Then waxed the molds with carnuba and laid up each side of the fuselage. first with a gell coat and then two layers of glass cloth. Joined the two sides with a strip of fiberglass colth and made plywood formers for support extending the horizontal former back to the tail wheel area. Didn't like how I joined the two sides together at the rear of the fuselage. Used duct tape to hold the sides together while adding the bonding strip. Pulled the duct tape too tight at the tail causing the vertical stab to curl to one side. Cut off the vertical stab. Plan to make build up. Decided to go "B/C" instead of "D". Enlarged Dave Platt B/P from 81" to 85" for turtle deck formers.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Enlarged Brian Taylor plans to 85.5" and built up wing and horizontal stab. not a perfact fit do to the laminar air foil , but plan to compensate in the fillet.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Didn't like the original wing saddle, so I added 1/8" ply to give depth.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Next: after consulting Slow Low in the composite section I purchased a few items. First a good tool epoxy for the mold gell coat, the aeropoxy for a good non-toxic layup and two thicknesses of glass material for layup.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Next: Set up for mold making of the belly scoop and chin scoop.
Note : measured the thickness of the belly scoop at 0.021"
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:42 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

This is quite a project and very interesting! I have subscribed!

I'm curious if you did any research on the airfoil. It appears you are going with the laminar foil tht was used on the full sized  P-51.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that the laminar section doesn't work so well on our size  models and Reynolds numbers.

Good luck! It's looking good.

Dash
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:00 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Luft Gangster, great project! If I may make a suggestion... If you have the capability, please resize your pictures down to 900 pixels wide before posting them. They will load a LOT faster that way. I edited two of your posts above to replace the pics with resized copies and you can see how much faster they load when you click on them.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:00 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Luft

I believe in what your doing. It makes obsolete models live forever for those who can do this. My friends and I have around 20 molds of fuses, wings, spinners, tails, cowls, ect, of various warbirds we like.

One question though. I did not see any key ways in your parting board. Did you put them? And also, why did you use polyester resin on the mold? In about 2-3 years they will shrink and maybe distort..
A cheaper epoxy resin would have been better for longevity and durability.

Will the wing/ H-stab be composite as well?



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Old 04-04-2011, 06:08 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Dash Yes it is the laminar airfoil and yes I read that too about not being recomended on models, but I also read that the Brian Taylor 69" P-51 was a very predictable easy to fly warbird. The wing and tail feathers are scaled up from the BT 69". My thoughts on the laminar airfoil is it will generate greater airspeed and thats the root of the not recomended for models thought process. Time will tell.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:12 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Minn Not sure if I have the capability to resize pics. Guess thats part of being an old fart.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:14 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

My understanding of the laminar air foil is that it move the center of pressure and lift rewards which really only helps at high altitudes. But give it a shot.. I think Dave Platt also used that on his plane as well. The plane flies well .. under power.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:26 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

May i ask where you got the malcolm hood for the B/C version. I am building a Top flite giant mustang with the spychalla razor back and have been looking everywhere for a malcolm hood to incorporate into the birdcage canopy i currently have. Or replace the birdcage with a full malcolm hood canopy. And if you molded it yourself, would it fit the topflite giant mustang and would you be willing to sell me one?

Thanks in advance and subscribed to this thread.

Adam
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:36 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

SCALECRAFT First time ever making a mold, thats why its a Leap of Faith. Did a test on a vacuum molded polystyrene part first before commiting to No I totally overlooked the key ways on this one. I am going to have to learn to practice patience. Probably why the vertical stab slipped and curled. Why polyester resin? Had it on the shelf and read that the Byron was made of polyester resin. Inexpierence. The shrink and distort, didn't know that. Moving forward I'm using Aeropoxy. What epoxy resin do you use? Wing, horizontal and vertical stab will be built up.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:47 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

BobH Thanks for the words of encouragement. Also have the Dave Platt under modified construction ( background in 1st pic) Its airfoil is a compromise between the Brian Taylor and a Top Flite. That would be an interesting subject in itself - comparing airfoils root to tip.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:06 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

TwinTurboZ The malcom hood B/C was borrowed from a Dave Platt semi kit. The Byron is more of a sport scale so I wasn't as concerned about matching a Neely outline. Looks close though. Mine in yellowed from age so I did cast it with plaster of paris before cutting to fit. Just in case. attached pics w/measuring tape for size. Hope it helps.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

This helps a bunch. The length of your malcolm hood canopy and my topflite giant B/C Bird cage canopy are identical. if at all possible can you get me the width of the canopy at the base? And then the last question I have is what size dave platt mustang kit was this from?

Thank you so much for all the help,

Adam
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

TwinTurboZ See attached pic's of both TF D and DP B/C. The Dave Platt is the 81" wing span. Measured the fuselage from the back of the spinner plate to the back of the vertical stab (front of the rudder). Platt = 61" and TF = 63"

Glad to help
Leroy
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Wow, it is really close in size to the birdcage canopy I have. Thank you very much for taking the time to take those pictures. Much appreciated. I will be sending you a PM.

Thank you again,

Adam
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

Wow really neat..Ill be following..
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: Leap of Faith - Byron P-51 Clone

wow you really work quite fast!!!!!
Also I'm impressed with you work but even more excited to know that you are local in my area!
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