Maintenance and scale war birds
04-19-2011, 08:48 AM
#26
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: cocobear
fix, fix, fix, fix, fly. Repeat. this applies after the first couple of years.
fix, fix, fix, fix, fly. Repeat. this applies after the first couple of years.
LOL! I like that.
“When an FW-190 crashes, they take the wreckage to Kurt Tank and he strengthens the parts that failed. When a Bf-109 crashes, they take the wreckage to Willie Messerschmitt and he lightens the parts that stayed together”
Gunther Rall
I have 4 planes, one is a Seaplane and another one is a Extra 260. Both planes I fly the snot out of them. Now my other planes, the Fokker DR1 and Fokker DVII I fly them to scale and I try not to do anything stupid with them. More or less I fly them as if I were in the cockpit.
If you are a big fan of 3D, there's nothing wrong with that and they are loads of fun to fly. I took my 260 to a show and I got some recognition because I made the plane look good. But when I took my Fokker DVII to a show, I got young and old hovering over the plane and stayed near it until I was ready to fly. The number 1 thing they often asked," Did you make that?" Or, "what is that?" Or the best one, "How did you make that?" So I would explain the scratch built part I made and what it was used for in the full scale. ( Again preserving History )
I didn't mean to offend anybody in the 3D category, that wasn't my intention. I was writing from the heart on how I felt about flying and taking care of my Warbirds compared to how I flew and took care my 3D or Sport.
I often go to full scale shows and I don't always see a original Fokker, Spad, FW, 109, Jug, Corsair, Hellcat etc. But I do see a lot of Extra's, Edges and more common- more modern planes. I'm 45 years of age and nothing beats seeing a Veteran come up to you and look at your RC plane with a twinkle in his eye, and come up to you and say, "I flew that plane back in the days."
I saw and heard that once when I guy made a nice P-38, and a older fellow started re-telling his story to the RC pilot who made the P-38. You don't see or experience that kind of thing if a person shows up at a airshow with a RC Extra or Edge.
Neptune V1 Seaplane
Seagull .90 Extra 260
Custom Hanger 9 Fokker DVII
Fokker DR1 still under construction since July 2010.
Discontinued Great Planes .60 Fokker DR1- Rebuilt and highly modified.
I really like this topic and hope that it continues for a very long time.
Pete
04-19-2011, 09:11 AM
#27
RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
Warbirds have an aura of sinister beauty that anyone with a bit of interest in history can be attracted to. RC warbirds is a way to see a much simpler time through the eyes of the greatest generation that flew these lethal machines. Though no one can deny what these machines were made for, anyone will agree they are technological marvels. To be able to replicate these tech marvels in model form, to the most accurate details possible, is a great achievement by itself. And to actually fly it? That's borderline religious experience right there! I'm fortunate to live about 10 minutes from the Military Aviation Museum (Fighter Factory) here in Virginia Beach, and i have seen all of their warbirds fly from their 4000' grass runway. I have been to their maintenance hangars, and i can tell you they spend tons of time keeping these rare gems airworthy. Two days ago, i got to see their FW-190 A8 (white 11) arrive from Germany and unpacked from its container. I offered to bring two drums of epoxy to help put her together. 
They have their air show scheduled for May 20-22, and that FW-190 will be flying, along with their entire collection of WW1 and WW2 warbirds. Last February, their newly acquired B-17G "Chuckie" arrived here. It was bitterly cold, but hundreds of folks showed up to welcome the plane. Late afternoon, the B-17 came down low over the runway, with their P-51D "Double Trouble" on one wing, and their Spitfire MKIX on the other. That my friends was a religious experience. That evening, i was in my garage checking my Yellow Spit and my Topflite P-51 (a replica of "Double Trouble"). Warbird folks sure are different...
Cheers to y'all
They have their air show scheduled for May 20-22, and that FW-190 will be flying, along with their entire collection of WW1 and WW2 warbirds. Last February, their newly acquired B-17G "Chuckie" arrived here. It was bitterly cold, but hundreds of folks showed up to welcome the plane. Late afternoon, the B-17 came down low over the runway, with their P-51D "Double Trouble" on one wing, and their Spitfire MKIX on the other. That my friends was a religious experience. That evening, i was in my garage checking my Yellow Spit and my Topflite P-51 (a replica of "Double Trouble"). Warbird folks sure are different...Cheers to y'all
04-19-2011, 09:18 AM
#28
RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: aerofalcon
Warbirds have an aura of sinister beauty that anyone with a bit of interest in history can be attracted to. RC warbirds is a way to see a much simpler time through the eyes of the greatest generation that flew these lethal machines. Though no one can deny what these machines were made for, anyone will agree they are technological marvels. To be able to replicate these tech marvels in model form, to the most accurate details possible, is a great achievement by itself. And to actually fly it? That's borderline religious experience right there! I'm fortunate to live about 10 minutes from the Military Aviation Museum (Fighter Factory) here in Virginia Beach, and i have seen all of their warbirds fly from their 4000' grass runway. I have been to their maintenance hangars, and i can tell you they spend tons of time keeping these rare gems airworthy. Two days ago, i got to see their FW-190 A8 (white 11) arrive from Germany and unpacked from its container. I offered to bring two drums of epoxy to help put her together. They have their air show scheduled for May 20-22, and that FW-190 will be flying, along with their entire collection of WW1 and WW2 warbirds. Last February, their newly acquired B-17G ''Chuckie'' arrived here. It was bitterly cold, but hundreds of folks showed up to welcome the plane. Late afternoon, the B-17 came down low over the runway, with their P-51D ''Double Trouble'' on one wing, and their Spitfire MKIX on the other. That my friends was a religious experience. That evening, i was in my garage checking my Yellow Spit and my Topflite P-51 (a replica of ''Double Trouble''). Warbird folks sure are different...
Cheers to y'all
Warbirds have an aura of sinister beauty that anyone with a bit of interest in history can be attracted to. RC warbirds is a way to see a much simpler time through the eyes of the greatest generation that flew these lethal machines. Though no one can deny what these machines were made for, anyone will agree they are technological marvels. To be able to replicate these tech marvels in model form, to the most accurate details possible, is a great achievement by itself. And to actually fly it? That's borderline religious experience right there! I'm fortunate to live about 10 minutes from the Military Aviation Museum (Fighter Factory) here in Virginia Beach, and i have seen all of their warbirds fly from their 4000' grass runway. I have been to their maintenance hangars, and i can tell you they spend tons of time keeping these rare gems airworthy. Two days ago, i got to see their FW-190 A8 (white 11) arrive from Germany and unpacked from its container. I offered to bring two drums of epoxy to help put her together.
They have their air show scheduled for May 20-22, and that FW-190 will be flying, along with their entire collection of WW1 and WW2 warbirds. Last February, their newly acquired B-17G ''Chuckie'' arrived here. It was bitterly cold, but hundreds of folks showed up to welcome the plane. Late afternoon, the B-17 came down low over the runway, with their P-51D ''Double Trouble'' on one wing, and their Spitfire MKIX on the other. That my friends was a religious experience. That evening, i was in my garage checking my Yellow Spit and my Topflite P-51 (a replica of ''Double Trouble''). Warbird folks sure are different...Cheers to y'all
When it comes to full scale war bird maintenance, I'm sure the hours are staggering.
04-19-2011, 09:24 AM
#29
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: Oberst
“When an FW-190 crashes, they take the wreckage to Kurt Tank and he strengthens the parts that failed. When a Bf-109 crashes, they take the wreckage to Willie Messerschmitt and he lightens the parts that stayed together”
Gunther Rall
“When an FW-190 crashes, they take the wreckage to Kurt Tank and he strengthens the parts that failed. When a Bf-109 crashes, they take the wreckage to Willie Messerschmitt and he lightens the parts that stayed together”
Gunther Rall
04-19-2011, 09:51 AM
#30
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
I was thinking of just how much work it takes to keep a scale giant war bird in top notch flying condition, and thought I would pose the question to you experts for the benefit of those just entering the area of giant ''scale''.
Question -
(A.) What would you say is the ratio of maintenance time vs flying time for a heavy, very detailed, scale war bird?
(B.) Do you have any maintenance procedures that you feel have helped avert disaster in the past?
This would include time spent in repair, inspections, and preventive maintenance. I am thinking that it is running an average of almost 0ne hour maintenance of some kind, for every one hour of engine time. Much much more than the average aerobatic type.
Guys just getting into this area of the hobby should expect to spend this additional time on there planes to prevent disasters and losses at the field. Accidents will always be with us, being imperfect as we are, but maintenance related accidents are highly preventable.
Tips on good maintenance practices would also be beneficial to us all.
I was thinking of just how much work it takes to keep a scale giant war bird in top notch flying condition, and thought I would pose the question to you experts for the benefit of those just entering the area of giant ''scale''.
Question -
(A.) What would you say is the ratio of maintenance time vs flying time for a heavy, very detailed, scale war bird?
(B.) Do you have any maintenance procedures that you feel have helped avert disaster in the past?
This would include time spent in repair, inspections, and preventive maintenance. I am thinking that it is running an average of almost 0ne hour maintenance of some kind, for every one hour of engine time. Much much more than the average aerobatic type.
Guys just getting into this area of the hobby should expect to spend this additional time on there planes to prevent disasters and losses at the field. Accidents will always be with us, being imperfect as we are, but maintenance related accidents are highly preventable.
Tips on good maintenance practices would also be beneficial to us all.
Good thread.
A. - Hard for me to guess the ratio of time. For me I think I spend less time on repair, inspections and preventative maintenance than flying time. My basic inspection that I do every time before flying only takes a few minutes. The "annual work" such as replacing fuel plumbing takes more time, but is only done at most once per year.
B. One procedure I do before every flying day (I typically do this at home the night before), is to inspect the interior of the fuselage. I use a flashlight to look around for cracks in formers, missing or loose servo mounting screws, or anything that is showing wear or looks out of place. I also use my hand to check that the servo tray is firmly attached to the fuselage and that the servos are firmly mounted in the servo tray. I also check the servo linkages and ensure that the batteries and fuel tank are still firmly mounted. Basically I look everything over and poke around. It only takes a few minutes and ensures that I won't have any surprises at the field. For example, one time I found that a servo tray had come loose on one side, so I epoxied it back in place and added some additional bracing for the servo tray. I did the inspection the night before, so I was able to make the repair and still enjoy a full day of flying the next day. Had I discovered this at the field, I wouldn't have been able to fly. It's been a few years since that repair and it hasn't come loose again. I think with new warbirds in particular, it is helpful to continuously inspect during the first 50 flights or so because things come loose or wear from vibration. Less frequently at home I will remove the prop, spinner and cowl and inspect the engine compartment, looking for any signs of wear or anything that is loose. I use dual battery packs in all my warbirds and always keep an eye on the pre-flight voltage (loaded and unloaded). I also monitor how much capacity is used (by occasional discharging) and how much charge each pack takes. The two packs are always very close in any measurements I make, so if anything suddenly is different between the two packs, then that would be a warning sign that something might be wrong. At the field I also monitor the air pressure in my retract systems. Once I make the initial fill for the first flight, I only need to add a few pounds of pressure before each subsequent flight. If I had to suddenly add a lot of air, that would be a warning sign that something is wrong with my air system.
-Ed B.
04-20-2011, 06:16 AM
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
Before every engine start-up I always check my AFV. A is for air so I top up my air pressure, F is for fuel so I check if my tank is full, and most importantly V is for volts so I check the voltage on all three batteries. This is a little off topic...sorry.
04-20-2011, 07:42 AM
#34
RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: RCdude13
Before every engine start-up I always check my AFV. A is for air so I top up my air pressure, F is for fuel so I check if my tank is full, and most importantly V is for volts so I check the voltage on all three batteries. This is a little off topic...sorry.
Before every engine start-up I always check my AFV. A is for air so I top up my air pressure, F is for fuel so I check if my tank is full, and most importantly V is for volts so I check the voltage on all three batteries. This is a little off topic...sorry.
04-20-2011, 02:06 PM
#35
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
I have a Vailey P-47 that has been around for 15 years now. I attribute that to 3 major things other then replacing or nipping of ends of airlines before every flying season.
1) Replumb fuel tank every other year.
2) Replace batteries every 3-4 years and of course cycle and monitor them consantley.
and finally...which I have not read yet...
3) Disassemble, clean, and REPLACE the gaskets and diaphrams of the Carbuerator every 2-3 years.
You should also make a habbit of pulling and checking spark plugs and check prop bolts every couple of weeks.
-M51
1) Replumb fuel tank every other year.
2) Replace batteries every 3-4 years and of course cycle and monitor them consantley.
and finally...which I have not read yet...
3) Disassemble, clean, and REPLACE the gaskets and diaphrams of the Carbuerator every 2-3 years.
You should also make a habbit of pulling and checking spark plugs and check prop bolts every couple of weeks.
-M51
04-20-2011, 02:29 PM
#36
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
When you ignore maintenance and other issues, Murphy's Law will prevail! One other thing: make sure you are rested and in the right frame of mind to fly safely. One mistake can result in disaster. Fly safe!
04-20-2011, 04:24 PM
#37
RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: Flak
When you ignore maintenance and other issues, Murphy's Law will prevail! One other thing: make sure you are rested and in the right frame of mind to fly safely. One mistake can result in disaster. Fly safe!
When you ignore maintenance and other issues, Murphy's Law will prevail! One other thing: make sure you are rested and in the right frame of mind to fly safely. One mistake can result in disaster. Fly safe!
And NEVER let that "Perfect Flying Day" Convince you into flying your model "one last time" before performing any maintenance that you know needs to be done. I did that once, and lost a $8k jet, All b/c a hatch bulkhead glue joint failed (would of found it if i hadn't of gone flying). Last time I will ever do that!
04-20-2011, 04:29 PM
#38
RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
Good suggestions guys. Thank you for all the fine posts. I'm sure many will benefit from the reminders.
On the later post from flak. I lost an airplane several years back from ignoring this very thing, my condition to fly. I had been working out of town and driven 500 miles home over night. The weather was exceptionally nice for Ohio, so I made the decision to go flying this day, never having been to bed. Felt good, with a lot of coffee on board at the time. Well, I found out the hard way that my reaction time was way to slow as was my decision making. Got my giant scale plane in a spin after a turn that got way too steep and a snap out. I was too low to begin with and couldn't decide which control to give. It spun into trees and then fell to the ground. Total loss. Never again did I fly in less than a well rested condition.
On the later post from flak. I lost an airplane several years back from ignoring this very thing, my condition to fly. I had been working out of town and driven 500 miles home over night. The weather was exceptionally nice for Ohio, so I made the decision to go flying this day, never having been to bed. Felt good, with a lot of coffee on board at the time. Well, I found out the hard way that my reaction time was way to slow as was my decision making. Got my giant scale plane in a spin after a turn that got way too steep and a snap out. I was too low to begin with and couldn't decide which control to give. It spun into trees and then fell to the ground. Total loss. Never again did I fly in less than a well rested condition.
04-20-2011, 04:36 PM
#40
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RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
ORIGINAL: invertmast
Here are a few rules i go by no matter what.
1. If your engine isn't running perfect. DO NOT FLY!
2. If your gear doesn't hold air for at least 24 hours without leaking 20psi or less.. Find out why and fix it.
3. Just b/c you are a great builder, doesn't necessarily mean your a great pilot. If you do not feel comfortable doing the maiden flight on your new pride n joy, find someone who is capable of doing it, or fly something you are more comfortable with to get your fingers back in use (especially if it has been a long time since you last flew). Don't let all the people at the flying field talk you into it. Its so sad seeing someone pressured into flying their new model and losing it b/c of this rule, or rules #1 and 2.
For Pre-flight work:
1. Check all servo's and linkages for secure mounting. If one of them feels loose or sloppy, inspect it more carefully for the reason why.
2. Check fuel tanks for leaks.
3. Make sure ALL of your servo's and air-lines are plugged in (for those with removable booms/wings).
4. Make sure your batteries are charged and can hold a charge under a load.
5. Check engine for secure attachment
6. Check landing gear for proper operation and attachment. Don't forget those gear doors!
7. Pressurize your air system, and cycle the gear. Leave the system pressurized for 15-20 minutes to check for newly developed leaks.
8. Make sure your wing (or any other removable part) is securely attached with all its needed hardware.
9. Tug on flight controls to test the hinges for secure attachment.
10. Do a visual check of the entire airframe to make sure no damage has been incurred from storage, handling and previous flights.
For winter maintenance, I do the following and then some:
Remove Landing gear, servo's, Rx', fuel tanks, engine, motor, access panels, etc. Check equipment mounts for security and repair as needed. Clean up the rotation points of the landing gear and re-lube. Check landing gear mounts and firewalls for cracks. Check hinges to make sure they are still secure. replace any worn or damaged hardware (including pushrods and pull-pull cables). Check servo's for sloppy gear trains (replace as needed). Replace servo rubber isolation grommets (as needed). remove air-lines from their "nipples" and remove 3/16 to 1/4" off the end of the airline and replace onto the air-cylinder nipple. Lube air-cylinders and valves.
Here are a few rules i go by no matter what.
1. If your engine isn't running perfect. DO NOT FLY!
2. If your gear doesn't hold air for at least 24 hours without leaking 20psi or less.. Find out why and fix it.
3. Just b/c you are a great builder, doesn't necessarily mean your a great pilot. If you do not feel comfortable doing the maiden flight on your new pride n joy, find someone who is capable of doing it, or fly something you are more comfortable with to get your fingers back in use (especially if it has been a long time since you last flew). Don't let all the people at the flying field talk you into it. Its so sad seeing someone pressured into flying their new model and losing it b/c of this rule, or rules #1 and 2.
For Pre-flight work:
1. Check all servo's and linkages for secure mounting. If one of them feels loose or sloppy, inspect it more carefully for the reason why.
2. Check fuel tanks for leaks.
3. Make sure ALL of your servo's and air-lines are plugged in (for those with removable booms/wings).
4. Make sure your batteries are charged and can hold a charge under a load.
5. Check engine for secure attachment
6. Check landing gear for proper operation and attachment. Don't forget those gear doors!
7. Pressurize your air system, and cycle the gear. Leave the system pressurized for 15-20 minutes to check for newly developed leaks.
8. Make sure your wing (or any other removable part) is securely attached with all its needed hardware.
9. Tug on flight controls to test the hinges for secure attachment.
10. Do a visual check of the entire airframe to make sure no damage has been incurred from storage, handling and previous flights.
For winter maintenance, I do the following and then some:
Remove Landing gear, servo's, Rx', fuel tanks, engine, motor, access panels, etc. Check equipment mounts for security and repair as needed. Clean up the rotation points of the landing gear and re-lube. Check landing gear mounts and firewalls for cracks. Check hinges to make sure they are still secure. replace any worn or damaged hardware (including pushrods and pull-pull cables). Check servo's for sloppy gear trains (replace as needed). Replace servo rubber isolation grommets (as needed). remove air-lines from their "nipples" and remove 3/16 to 1/4" off the end of the airline and replace onto the air-cylinder nipple. Lube air-cylinders and valves.
Ineed to add something new, Iam new to electrics and learned a hard lesson. Ihave a giant scale plane with an Easytiger electric setup. Iput the plane away for the winter and Idid not charge the batteries before putting it away, and now all the batteries are puffed and ruined because they went too low over the winter.
So, add to your rules to charge your li po batteries right.
04-20-2011, 04:44 PM
#41
RE: Maintenance and scale war birds
Looks like a may need to index this thread when I have time.
Suggestions for:
-winterizing / season end maintenance
-pre-season maintenance
-before you leave the house
-before you assemble the plane
-before you start
-before fly
-before you put it away for the day
For example.
Suggestions for:
-winterizing / season end maintenance
-pre-season maintenance
-before you leave the house
-before you assemble the plane
-before you start
-before fly
-before you put it away for the day
For example.
